Viewing 40 posts - 38,281 through 38,320 (of 77,140 total)
  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • oldnpastit
    Full Member

    Chris pleae read up on The Common Travel Area between NI and The Republic. It existed before we joined the EEC.

    That was then, this is now.

    40 years ago was a very different world to the one we live in today. Back then, Poland was somewhere you read about in history books. The idea that refugees from Afghanistan might want to get into the UK to stay with their friends would have been laughable. Driving cheap chinese imports across the border without paying VAT? There weren’t any chinese imports, and VAT was mostly 5%.

    Can’t turn back the clock, sorry.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    and the bus overestimated savings by 571 million per week.

    If only the brexies had been honest on the bus of lies, then they wouldn’t be tying themselves in knots trying to say it’s a good thing

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    so how are you going to stop people coming in ?

    and goods ?

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    kilo
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member
    HMRC already confirmed it can implement the UK Govt’s proposals.

    Can you cite this?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    It’s not a payment to exit but a realisation of the true cost of being a member, ie much more than £363m per week.

    😆

    TOO big a lie to fit on a bus and yesterday you were saying it was a great deal as it was just our membership fee for the period we would be in

    you dont even agree with what you said when it was announced so how can we debate with you?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    As it looks like America is about to correct it’s moment of electoral stupidity, can we fix ours?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Chris, we are not. Border will be open.

    @mike I read the HoL report, I imagine you did not. It pointed out that any payments would be politcial and balanced by a free trade / transition deal. As I have posted that’s not my preffered option, I want WTO with a nice and clean break. No money paid and EIB gone and our £10bn capital back.

    The benefits of being a member were outweighed by the negatives. Hence my vote to leave.

    kilo
    Full Member

    Actually Jamba can you explain your quote re HMRC and the Irish border with HMRC’s Director Generals comments last week that they have not done any work on a border with Irelnd, “Appearing before the parliamentary spending watchdog on Monday, HMRC officials were asked how they would monitor the movement of goods and services at 300 crossing points along the border.

    Karen Wheeler, HMRC’s director general, said: “That area is not within the scope that we have been working on in the border planning group because the arrangements on Ireland are still subject to negotiations and ministerial discussions.””

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Border will be open.

    And how does the EU stop chlorinated hormoned roided up chickens coming in from the US via the UK?

    The border will be there but it won’t be to keep them out, it’ll be to keep us in.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    and you think an open border is fine ?

    as I said before leavers voted to end freedom of movement , how is it compatible with an open border ?

    I am confused .

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I read the HoL report,

    So did i and it also accepted that other legal opinions were available and were cited and they just preferred the one from that expert who said we owed nothing but we could then be sued. IMHO as a nation we pay our bills to the world as a matter of honour and morality if not the law. you are free to disagree obviously and annoy them to get WTO
    I dont recall them citing any payment must be quid pro quo with a trade agreement [ nor any legal basis for such a claim] so could you cite the relevant part of the report [ with the numbered point for reference] so we can all see it- its some time since we both read it so happy to be corrected by the facts

    did you mean this

    137. However, the political and economic consequences of the UK leaving the EU without responding to claims under the EU budget are likely
    to be profound. If the UK wants a preferential trading relationship
    with EU, including a transitional arrangement, the EU partners may
    well demand a financial contribution post-Brexit.

    not the same as what you claim as its payment post Brexit for trade- funny how the Brexit bunch never cite that part of the report

    so basically cite please

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I want WTO with a nice and clean break.

    I’m still not convinced you fully grasp what the WTO will except as regards Irish cross border trading if we have no deal with the EU, or the battles ahead at the WTO to get our proposals for our own schedules and quotas agreed.

    Also…

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/customs-it-system-no-deal-brexit-david-davis-ready-declaration-service-cds-leave-eu-a8019756.html

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Bruce that’s the EU’s problem not ours. Of course currently we can’t do anything about illegally reared Pork from Eastern European EU members.

    Yes Chris I do. I posted that months back. Small “price” to pay on the basis the EU won’t play ball.

    @Kilo testimony to HoC last week

    As I said the UK cannot guaranty an open border on the EU side, we can only control our side. We are “committed” to an open border but we can’t guaranty one.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Jamba, if we fall back on WTO rules only, neither side can realistically keep the border open, on either ‘side’. We can not give the Irish/EU preferential tariff rules without a trade deal. Other countries would insist on being treated the same, under “WTO rules”.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    but end of freedom of movement is one of TM red lines .

    unless you intend to be voted next PM , it does not really matter what you think .

    highlandman
    Free Member

    I heard a lovely wee story from Irish relatives earlier today:

    It is being reported in the domestic press in Ireland, that with progress finally being made on the border issues, perhaps the UK and Ireland have finally buried the hatchet over Brexit.
    However, only the Irish know where it’s buried….

    kilo
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member

    @Kilo testimony to HoC last week

    That’s an interesting interpretation of HMRC’s DG stating they had no idea about the Irish border as I quoted

    “Appearing before the parliamentary spending watchdog on Monday, HMRC officials were asked how they would monitor the movement of goods and services at 300 crossing points along the border.

    Karen Wheeler, HMRC’s director general, said: “That area is not within the scope that we have been working on in the border planning group because the arrangements on Ireland are still subject to negotiations and ministerial discussions.””

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @kelvin I have a lot of experience in global trade finance (Standard Chartered where I worked for 11 years along with HSBC and Citi dominate trade finance) . The EU’s biggest trade partners operate under WTO. This whole “crashing out” and “cliff edge” stuff is just media / Remainers nonsense. The biggest tarifs are on agricultural products and we can buy those elsewhere once outside the EU if we chose, tariff free if and when we sign deals. The EU has trade deals with 60 countries most of them tiny and not major trading counterparts. The big ones operate under WTO.

    igm
    Full Member

    Does the DUP announcement mean that if there is an agreement for an open border in NI but not at Dover, then we’re looking at another election?

    Could be.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Jamba, are you going to address my point as regards trade across the Irish border on “WTO rules”, and that it isn’t in our remit to treat it as either an open, or tariff free, border?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    The EU’s biggest trade partners operate under WTO

    Want to list the countries that trade solely on WTO rules?

    igm
    Full Member

    I have a lot of experience in global trade finance

    So not global trade then.

    Jamba – I’m sure you’re a bright guy, but finance is a relatively simple game. Trade, particularly in a time of flux and new products and standards is not. With Brexit we are giving up a lot of control of our markets. Previously we had a place at the table on standards and specifications – going forward we will end up accepting EU standards with no say in the matter.
    And that sadly is probably unavoidable now – at least without agreeing to be part of a variety of institutions that May has stupidly red lined.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Standard Chartered where I worked for 11 years along with HSBC and Citi dominate trade finance) . ….The biggest tarifs are on agricultural products

    Did you oversee many big $$ international turnip deals ?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Aaaaand we’ve folded again

    https://www.ft.com/content/acc6c972-d5c8-11e7-a303-9060cb1e5f44

    Bound by ecj rulings but no longer any judges on the court

    Brexit really is taking back control 😡

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Good news for this morning, if true. Swiss style deal for aviation is very sensible (but gives away control compared to current position, of course).

    A non-FT linky: https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-stay-in-eu-air-safety-body-in-blurring-of-brexit-red-line-11151049

    Red line turning pinkish?

    igm
    Full Member

    Now let’s get working on keeping the four freedoms.

    That was a red line too, but it would sort a lot of problems if it also went pink line (or no line).

    igm
    Full Member

    Just stay out of the Euro. Hopefully we’ll still get the rebate but I guess that’s not definite.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    If we are staying in ecj for aviation, then why are we leaving Euratom or EMA?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Because even the lack lustre politicans handling this understand aviation needs sorting a year early. Of course, lots of other industries ideally need that early certainty as well, but aviation is more clean cut. I expect/hope that next summer the idea of paying for, but not having a say in, more bodies, will be on the cards.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    so basically , the growns up doing the negociations are just agreeing to keep what is there at the moment ?

    i wonder how much they are getting paid for doing it .

    igm
    Full Member

    That’s because what we’ve got is an excellent deal for Britain.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    they seem to be negotiating a dea that is worse than what we have here and wont make either leavers or remainers happy

    that really is stellar levels of **** wittery

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Er, no Junkyard… that describes any deals that can/could/would/might be arrived at.

    There is no alternative for us that is either better, or more popular, than staying in the EU but carving out our own exceptions from within. No A vs B referendum could be won… where A is remaining and reforming, and B is a defined new relationship… what we had was A vs (B or C or D or unicorns)… where B and C and D are totally conflicting non overlapping new relationships, and the unicorns were impossible cake and eat it deals that fall apart as soon as securitised. This is why there is no chance of the public being offered the choice between the end deals and remaining in the EU… no one on the Leave side, or wanting to keep the Conservative party in one piece, will risk giving “the people” a real choice to make.

    igm
    Full Member

    And kelvin is doing that accurate information thing again.

    You’re right of course Kelvin but don’t expect it to make you any friends.

    We don’t want accuracy we want unicorns.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    “Real” choice – do you want to remain members of the EU. Yes or no. How unreal does it get?

    Still all moving along despite the moaning. Agencies will be dealt with, bill done who knows the rights of UK citizens in the EU might be addressed. And then trade at last…,

    Although a lot of that probably stitched up behind closed doors alread

    Still hard Brexshit looking less likely so we should all be happy !!

    kelvin
    Full Member

    What about the people who voted wanting a “hard Brexit”, and would see something akin to EEA/EFTA, with payments continuing, and our place at decision tables removed, as worse than staying in the EU? We can’t “all be happy”… it’s not even possible for the majority of Leave voters to be happy with the end deals, is it?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Bespoke deal kelvin, bespoke deal

    Get with the program ( awaits bigger boy in slippers) 😉 and note use of conditional tense (“should”)

    They can enjoy every day as a learning day

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Bespoke deal still means nothing at all… …it only rules out adopting an existing arrangement in its entirety. It clearly doesn’t even mean the same thing to government ministers tasked with essential work in forming our new relationships with the EU, WTO, and everyone else.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    then we’re looking at another election?

    And a genuine leaver in charge of Brexshit not a pretend convert. Best of all we would get a jobs first Brexshit. What’s not to like?

Viewing 40 posts - 38,281 through 38,320 (of 77,140 total)

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