Homeopaths are educated.

Watching John Major on the AM show. He seems to have grown a spine and become eloquent and precise. Astonishing.

He seemed to have consumed a large quantity of EU Kool-aid for breakfast.

Major was always a fan of the EU, it seemed likely he’d have led us I to take up the € had Gordon Brown, not been the next Chancellor

We’re talking economists here. Guessing would be more accurate.

ROFL

The most interesting aspects of models/forecast is rarely the number that is spouted out at the end, but the identification of the key drivers and how they interact with each other. Hence the value in the Treasury analysts is not really in the final numbers but the early chapters that explain the real issues ie, this is or should be debate about UK trade and investment, how membership of the EU helps both and how it compares with the alternatives, and the obligations and costs that are also involved.

Forget the numbers and the full 201 pages, just read the first few chapters and it becomes pretty clear. No bananas, foreigners and BS just a clear discussion of the issues that really matter.

Alternatively read Farrage warning about the wave of rapists on the way

Will watch Marr later after Fort William DH, at least I have my priorities straight.

Leave making a key move here in the campaign focusing this coming week on the huge financial risks of Remaining in the EU (as I have been banging on about for the whole of this thread). Whether it’s bailouts or the remarks made at the G7 about increased EU budget cash calls coming very soon to deal with the migrant crises, i.e. the UK paying for EU mismanagement and incompetence.

The pro-campaign much like the immigration argument are going to have very little ability to respond imo, it could well be the decisive move.

Will we have truth and answers to the two simple questions that I have asked several times about bailouts and our exposure to Greece?

Here’s two more

1. Was the last UK contribuition based on our membership of the IMF or the EU?
2. Based on answer to (1) what difference does this vote make to our possible future contribution?
(3. How much money did we lose last time?)

Control your own destiny or someone else would.

One thing I keep hearing people say is that the EU is undemocratic. The main reason given is that EU commissioners are unelected.

But I’ve not heard anybody explain that it’s simply a cabinet system – similar to pretty much every democratic government in the world, including the UK.

Nobody voted for Lord Sainsbury to be a Culture Minister. Nobody voted for the current Foreign Office and Commonwealth minister, some woman called Joyce Anelay.

So presumably Brexiters are spitting feathers at this democratic deficit in Westminster?

chewkw – Member
Control your own destiny or someone else would.

Was that on a beer mat?

So presumably Brexiters are spitting feathers at this democratic deficit in Westminster?

I know weve got 30 in the HOL who got there coz they are the bestest at believing in god

thats the definition of bonkers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Spiritual

this coming week on the huge financial risks of Remaining in the EU (as I have been banging on about making up for the whole of this thread).

FTFY

THM just owned you on the bailout point as an indication of the sort of “facts” you have been pedalling. TBH the kindest description is completely wrong the unkindest is deliberate falsehoods

The main reason given is that EU commissioners are unelected.

Commissioners are elected its just not true to say they are not *
TBH we dont elect our PM , any of the cabinet , the upper chamber or our head of state. The Brexiters forget all this when they mention democracy but its more democratic than us but it has flaws, as do all democracies

* Commissioners are proposed by member states who get one each , the president appoints portfolios, the MEP have to approve them or reject them

Fuller version from wiki

Each Commissioner is first nominated by their member state in consultation with the Commission President, although the President holds little practical power to force a change in candidate. The more capable the candidate is, the more likely the Commission President will assign them a powerful portfolio, the distribution of which is entirely at his discretion. The President’s team is then subject to hearings at the European Parliament which will question them and then vote on their suitability as a whole. If members of the team are found to be inappropriate, the President must then reshuffle the team or request a new candidate from the member state or risk the whole Commission being voted down. As Parliament cannot vote against individual Commissioners there is usually a compromise whereby the worst candidates are removed but minor objections are put aside so the Commission can take office. Once the team is approved by parliament, it is formally put into office by the European Council (TEU Article 17:7).

The number of wide spread lies abut the EU Is staggering
Some folk actually know when they are pedalling a lie though- not aimed at that poster to be clear

mikewsmith – Member

chewkw – Member
Control your own destiny or someone else would.

Was that on a beer mat? [/quote]
Non-alcoholic malt.
However, I do like Sharp’s Cornish Pilsner which I get to drink once may be twice a year.
You like alcohol? Yes?
What do you like?

Haven’t watched all if this yet, so passed without comment:

[video]http://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0[/video]

@tmh I answered your questions already – we will get sucked into the bailout – with 100% certainty whatever the technicalities of your questions or David’s most recent “guaranty we won’t have to contribute” to eurozone bailout which is worth the paper its not written on with respect to the Treaties. The Government of the day will cave in to political pressure and just pay up “voluntarily”. IMF trms will be better than anything the EU does so wouod rather have all our exposure that way pari-passu US etc. The US wants us in the EU so we are subordinate to them, perfectly understandable from their perspective,.

@ninfan that film is ok (its been around a few weeks or so) I thought Paxman’s piece was better but of course bigger budget etc.

No you haven’t you have merely speculated on an issue that you are now claiming is going to be the next big thing after xenophobia or ducked the question. That is obvious for anyone to see.

How about listing the questions asked and giving straight answers In most cases they are yes or no, so will not take time.

Otherwise, we can put his issue down once again to scaremongering. Your choice….

3. Emergency and crisis measures designed to safeguard the financial stability of the euro area will not entail budgetary responsibility for Member States whose currency is not the euro, or, as the case may be, for those not participating in the banking union.

So a side whose website begins with a lie, whose battlebus is adorned with lies and whose front men happily lie in public would prefer us to take their word rather than believe the conclusions presented in writing by the EU.

Hmmm, really touch choice.

So we have a week of lies about Greece coming. It really is a shameful example of post truth politics in all it’s true horror.

“guaranty we won’t have to contribute” to eurozone bailout which is worth the paper its not written on with respect to the Treaties. The Government of the day will cave in to political pressure and just pay up “voluntarily”.

What political pressure could be brought to bear on the UK Govt. of the day in the event of our remaining a member of the EU and not in the Eurozone, that could not be brought to bear if the UK was outside the EU?

If the EU/Eurozone members wanted to force others outside the EU/Eurozone to contribute to such a bailout, I would have thought that their biggest leverage would be to threaten EEA and non-EU members with trade tariffs if they did not contribute (presumably in flagrant breach of treaties). Frankly that seems to me to be complete fantasy, but even in that situation the best place for the UK to be would be in the EU with the power to veto any such attempt.

I find the idea that a UK govt. of any political persuasion is going to give money to a bailout which it is not legally obliged to do by treaty, to be fanciful.

As far as I am aware, the only time in recent history when the UK Govt. has given significant financial assistance where it was not required to do so by treaty, was the loan/line of credit given to the Republic of Ireland in the early years of the crash, and it seemed very clear to me that that decision was based on cold mercenary decision making about what was in the UK’s best interest, i.e. the UK (especially RBS) would have suffered severely in the event that the Irish economy imploded.

Well yes and no. Since Jambas won’t answer. This is what happened.

We did participate in a loan to Greece as part of the EU fund. Our participation was 100% collateralised and full repaid. This structure was subsequently enshrined in EU law. The statement above came later and presents a different picture, one in which non EZ member states will entail no budgetary responsibility for any emergency or crisis measures.

See, it wasn’t that difficult.

Apparently, this story is going to be spun in a different fashion next week in more attempts to deceive the British public. Shameful.

Now the question may remain, would we be exposed as part of the IMF. If so how, if at all, does this vote affect that?

Another very simple question. Here’s hoping…..

Ironically given the BSer’s desire to convince that closer ties with Asia is a panacea, the BoE latest Financial Stability Report suggested that risks eminating from Asia an other emerging markets represented an important risk to financial stability. Odd that.

Of course, the BSers will tell is to ignore the BoE – part of the evil Establishment

The global macroeconomic environment remains challenging. Risks in relation to Greece and its financing needs have fallen from their acute level at the time of the publication of the July 2015 Report. But, as set out in July, risks arising from the global environment have rotated in origin from advanced economies to emerging market economies.

@tmh I answered your questions already

You are the only one who thinks this – they are not even questions they are just to highlight your “issues with the facts”.
To claim you did is just not true.

Just post a link to your post that answered them – i bet he says he can’t be bothered and asks someone else to do it 🙄

I find the idea that a UK govt. of any political persuasion is going to give money to a bailout which it is not legally obliged to do by treaty, to be fanciful.

Its worse than that, its delusional.

You lot think too much.

Be happy Vote OUT.

Facts are fine if you use them at the right moment but if you over use them you have a paralysis.

Yes, you might argue that we are all super doper now with IT and we can analyse information much more accurate than our forefathers/mothers but then same will happen again because we are trained to look backward.

Ya, all the numbers you have … they are from the past. Yes, the numbers might give you some patent of things that happened but you are stabbing in the dark to forecast the future.

Ya, you might say that it might be better than nothing because the alternative does not provide their “facts”, but if you look closely your facts also brought the current world misery innit … yet, you stick to them like a glue? Yes? Lemmings come to mind.

Why not the world predicts what is happening in middle east? Surely we can see that coming? No? Yes? You know we are not your forefathers/mothers and consider ourselves advance. Yes, advance! Ya, predict that … didn’t you have the numbers before?

Facts, ya right … the irony of factual paralysis. A feature of bureaucratic mind set and conditioning that is embedded so deep it takes away a person ability to venture beyond the unknown.

You have many explorers? Yes? Climbing the highest mountain, diving into the deepest ocean, flying above the earth … yes?

Now, explore this … Vote OUT.

We have stayed in too long and it’s getting bored, you get it? Bored! Time to get out to shake the Whole world up coz we need to experience new things.

Ya, all those chest thumping, high five-ing, fist pumping, independent taking, revolutionary red flag waving, class struggles … ya, you still want to hide under the EU blouse?

I see that Nigel Farage might of taken some advise from jambalaya. He’s now made the same point which jambalaya made last week :

Farage slated for saying women are more likely to be raped if we stay in the EU

A genius stroke which has received condemnation from fellow rightwing Brexiters.

teamhurtmore – Member 

Alternatively read Farrage warning about the wave of rapists on the way

POSTED 8 HOURS AGO #

C’mon Ernie, stay with the game. Thought you were slow this morning 😉

Is there a timeline somewhere for the ‘Exit’? As part of the plan.

Like on the 24th, we serve a 30 day notice period etc?

Sorry THM I’m not reading the thread beyond the very occasional quick scan. I can’t think of any useful reasons why I should.

Besides, you didn’t make the connection between the latest xenophobic gibberish from Farage and jambalaya’s identical point last week.

I thought I should.

ernie_lynch – Member
… xenophobic …

You need to be much more creative than that coz it is so boring now banging on the same old stuff.

Need to try something new dude!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szIGZVrSAyc[/video]

Good watch. This DiEM25 thing seems an interesting idea.

it is so boring now banging on the same old stuff.

I had to rub my eyes and look at the screen several times to check who said that.

ernie_lynch – Member

it is so boring now banging on the same old stuff.

I had to rub my eyes and check the screen several times to check who said that. [/quote]Basically, you calling everyone a xenophobe if s/he does not want to be part of EU is it not?

I have to laugh each time someone mentions that coz it is so lame I can sense that some people are really confused. Are you confused?

Now assume this … (departure or form their own system)

The Scottish people (SNP voters) are now xenophobic …
The Welsh people with Welsh system/parliament whatever … xenophobes …
The people in Northern Ireland who do not belief in you … xenophobes.
Countries around the world that prefer to gain independence from a larger system … xenophobes …
All the ex-colonies … xenophobes because they do not want to be governed by a larger system whatever they may be.

All of us xenophobes because we do not want to be in a system we do not belief in … including you because you are now a xenophobe according to our views. 😛

Crikey, if we go by that sort of explanation no wonder we are all screwed! Screwed! Doomed! Doomed dude! Laddie! Doomed! 😆

Told you … some of you are really confused.

There’s a strand of the leave campaign which is definitely all about xenophobia. It seems like a fair point to bring up.

oldnpastit – Member
There’s a strand of the leave campaign which is definitely all about xenophobia. It seems like a fair point to bring up.

Can you see the logic?
Am I wrong in my explanation?

@slowstar the longer we are embroiled in this EU fiasco the harder it will be to extract ourselves as we become more dependent / addicted. The Remain campaign are already saying we are too small to propser outside the EU.

TMH you questions are as relevant to the Greek and eurozone contagion bailout as is our veto to Turkey joining the EU. They are irrelevant as political pressure (considerations they will say) will rule the day and see it waved through just as per the “paving the road from Brussels to Ankara”. We will get the whole European solidarity / our shared interests argument to our faces whilst behind closed doors we will be told we really have no choice as its an “Emergency”. What’s really comical is if the Corbynistas had their way it would be a Labour government who’d be paying up and cutting UK services and welfare to foot the bill.

The only reason Greece hasn’t defaulted already (ie as early as 2010) is that the eurozone was so weak it would have collapsed so Germany and France pushed through the bailoit to buy time, except they can’t buy enough time and the problem is getting worse. German and Frence governments are now playing a dreadful short term game to try and oush the implosion beyond their elections in 2017. Its short-termsim in the extreme and at their citizens expense.

Nest week is going to be very interesting as the economic risks of the EU are brought to the fore. Remain are losing the plot just as some of you here are doing. With all the establishment behind you and a campaign budget multiple times that of Leave its slipping away from you. You fired the “big guns” early and its made no difference.

The attacks in Cologne are about the lack of border controls in Europe encouraging a million people to march through what they knew to be wide open borders and via countries they knew would wave them through as to register them meant accepting they would be deported back. A intellectually corrupt and wholly naive border and asylum policy concocted in Brussels and left horribly exposed to the real world.

Basically, you calling everyone a xenophobe if s/he does not want to be part of EU is it not?

As a general rule I don’t read your posts Chewwy, and the rare occasion that I do I never respond to them in any sort of meaningful serious way. I’m so sorry as I know you crave the attention.

But on this occasion I’m prepared to make a possibly unprecedented exception. If you read any of my posts concerning the EU you would be aware that I am 100% opposed to the EU.

You obviously appear to make as much effort reading my posts as I do reading yours. Which I have to be honest suits me fine. Please keep it that way.

ernie_lynch – Member

Basically, you calling everyone a xenophobe if s/he does not want to be part of EU is it not?

As a general rule I don’t read your posts Chewwy, and the rare occasion that I do I never respond to them in any sort of meaningful serious way. I’m so sorry as I know you crave the attention.[/quote]Oh c’mon … I am not that bad am I? 😛

But on this occasion I’m prepared to make a possibly unprecedented exception. If you read any of my posts concerning the EU you would be aware that I am 100% opposed to the EU.

D’oh! Am I doing this “blue on blue” stuff … I mean friendly fire sort of thing?

You obviously appear to make as much effort reading my posts as I do reading yours. Which I have to be honest suits me fine. Please keep it that way.

Ouch! Teach me a lesson for trying to surf net, watch telly, messing around … arrghhh … 😮

p/s: Anyone using the term xenophobic please think carefully or refer to my thread posted above …

I think I am doing this “blue on blue” on Ernie laddie. Happened sometimes you know … 😆

They are irrelevant as political pressure (considerations they will say) will rule the day and see it waved through just as per the “paving the road from Brussels to Ankara”. We will get the whole European solidarity / our shared interests argument to our faces whilst behind closed doors we will be told we really have no choice as its an “Emergency”. What’s really comical is if the Corbynistas had their way it would be a Labour government who’d be paying up and cutting UK services and welfare to foot the bill.”

😆
Truly brilliant work

Thankfully you did not let facts get in the way of doing this.

Oopps here come the facts numbness dude … ^^^ 😆

the longer we are embroiled in this EU fiasco the harder it will be to extract ourselves as we become more dependent / addicted.

Dependent upon / addicted to what exactly?

As far as I can see we depend upon the EU for a significant proportion of our external trade. The only way that dependence is going to reduce, is either if the quantity of our trade with the EU reduces (which would be a disaster given the contraction it would mean for our economy), or if the amount of trade we do with the rest of the world significantly increases (thus reducing the proportion that the EU would account for of our total economic activity). I cannot see how being outside the EU would increase our competiveness to such an extent that it would enable us to increase sales of goods and services to the rest of the world by the amount that is implied in ‘reducing our dependence upon the EU’.

The attacks in Cologne are about the lack of border controls in Europe encouraging a million people to march through what they knew to be wide open borders and via countries they knew would wave them through as to register them meant accepting they would be deported back.

And remind me again how they can just stroll into the UK without an EU Passport?
Also not complete stats due to the low reporting but…

Here are some key statistics about sexual violence:

Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year; that’s roughly 11 rapes (of adults alone) every hour
Nearly half a million adults are sexually assaulted in England and Wales each year
1 in 5 women aged 16 – 59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16
Only around 15% of those who experience sexual violence choose to report to the police
Approximately 90% of those who are raped know the perpetrator prior to the offence
http://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php
If this is an issue that you feel so strongly about the answers lie much closer to home.