Thier ‘respect the referendum results’ policy leaves them too close to tory policy to make any real ground up given brexit policy is probably the most critical political issue currently.

The differentiator is approach to negotiation.

Tories know their case is hopeless and are stirring up emnity with the EU to please Murdoch, Dacre and that cohort. Personally I think they’re planning to walk out once the figure is on the table.

Corbyn’s Labour are, I think, capable of a dialogue. Leave is still the likely outcome, but hopefully on more of a partnership basis, with the door left open a chink, than antagonistic.

Personally I’d rather remain but I pick partnership over antagonism.

oops, double post, most odd!

It does seem that the tories are back peddling at a rate just slow enough not to push the rabid isolationalists of the electorate too hard or too fast.
Whilst simultaneously trying not to piss Europe past the point of a full relationship breakdown.

Or maybe I’m giving them too much credit, maybe they are just criminaly incompetent. The tory game plan is unclear.

They’re too proud. And stupid. Proud, stupid and xenophobic.

Not all of them. Electorally speaking there were a handful of votes in this, assuming majority is the decider on the mythical second referendum.

The tory game plan is unclear.

They’re banking they can get it through on the backs of the old before the young outnumber them.

Then the next generations grow up in Farage’s Britain with nationalism the key theme. The current internationalist cohort become a blip.

It’s party before country, shamelessly.

What’s going to be interesting, once they’re all back off their hols, is whether labours change of position emboldens the less swivel-eyed in the Tory party to start rebelling against the present confused, hardline nonsense that passes for government policy

Given that May has no majority and absolutely zero authority, let’s hope so

A full-scale rats-in-a-sack civil war within the party isn’t inconceivable

Yeah Binners. It’s not going to be dull!

The brexiteers within the Tory ranks make a lot of noise, but the vast majority of the parties MPs were staunch remainers.

And a lot of them represent metropolitan seats that are also pro-remain. And then theres the issue of funding. The business leaders who traditionally fund the party must be looking on in horror at the potential economic damage to their incomes inherent in the present suicidal hard Brexit approach. I doubt they’ll be shy about pointing this out

Murdoch and Dacre might strike fear into the Tory leadership but I suspect not as much as upsetting the people who write the cheques. And those people now have a party which actually best represents their economic interests

Let’s just stop and have a think about that for a minute, shall we? The Labour Party, led by supposed arch-socialist Corbyn is now more closely aligned with the interests of the boardrooms and bankers than an increasingly unhinged Tory ‘leadership’

I predict all hell breaking loose within the party after the parliamentary recess, because that situation simply can’t hold, especially given the leadership vacuum at the top

Yeh I think that’s pretty accurate binners.

I suspect there’s quite a few lower rank than front bench tories who will rebel if they thought they could get away with it without getting the sack.

Given Mays non-majority, and the resentment at her total electoral balls up, it only needs to be a handful, and this whole thing is dead in the water

Given the fiercely pro-EU opinions of people like Anna Sourby and Nikki Morgan regarding Brexit, I doubt they’ll be in the mood to be doing May, Boris, Liam and Dave any favours

Yes. well played Starmer, and I do think it’s Starmer.

Edukator – Reformed Troll
If remainers really want a change of government it’s easy to achieve. Simply stop spending on anything not needed to stay alive. And when you buy stuff that’s needed to stay alive buy EU where possible. The economic impact would be enough to bring down a government with a majority held up by an alliance with the DUP. It just needs someone with enough weight on Facebook, Twitter and so on to launch the campaign.

STW might be big enough to start the movement, start spreading the word folks.

STOP SPENDING TO STOP BREXIT

Edukator nails it – humour (even weak humour) is the way forward. Just keep cracking these kind of jokes every time we meet a European. They will be in stiltches and unable to negotiate. Where’s Baldrick when you need him…

We had our chance but blew it. Now we have to live with the consequences of our failure.

No you don’t. There’s absolutely no reason why a second referendum can’t be held.

Now the appalling consequences are revealed, on top of the original peddling of lies that by itself invalidates the original vote, there’s every justification for doing it again.

All it would take is a political party with the balls to take a stand on the issue…

There’s absolutely no reason why a second referendum can’t be held.

All it would take is a political party with the balls to take a stand on the issue…

So, what you mean is there’s only *one* reason a second referendum can’t be held.

Perhaps some polling on the subject might embolden the requisite political support…

Perhaps this lot

And what happens if we lose that one? Or it’s 50:50?

Sorry but it’s time to grow a pair. We are giving up membership of the EU. It’s happening. The only issue is the terms under which will will continue to have access to the single market and vice versa. Admittedly a very complex issue that has not been done before. So heads down and get cracking.

The idea that the Labour Party represents a source of salvation is as amusing as Edukator’s cunning plan. They are as spilt as the Tories if not more and have a genuinely euro phobic leader rather than a pretend one.Plus there are even fewer competents on their front bench than on the government’s – which is quite something in itself. Hard to imagine really.

“Grow a pair”?

What are you, 15?

All it takes is for people to use their economic power to bring about the change they want, THM.

If enough people stop their discretionary spending for a few months the impact on GDP and business will have May’s pay masters screaming at her.

Around 40% of my spending is discretionary. There’s maybe 10% of fixed outgoings (I don’t intend to starve) that I can choose the origin of the goods.

If only those motivated enough by remain to have gone out and voted for it have a STOP SPENDING TO STOP BREXIT campaign we can wipe enough points off GDP to bring pain to those in a position to pressure government.

You were being serious?!? Sorry, I missed that first time round. Let me re-read and respond appropriately.

“Grow a pair”
I’d rather we grew our brains.

Perhaps the most amusing aspect of this thread is seeing THM’s determination to be on the losing side twice in a row. First by supporting remain pre-referendum, and now by supporting brexit long after any intelligent analysis shows it to be a hare-brained and wholly impractical proposition which is ultimately doomed to failure.

Glad to amuse. 😉

Of course, the “intelligent” analysis and response is to respond to what is in front of you not what you wish was in front of you. In this case, two different things. That is not the same as supporting Brexshit as “semi-intelligent” analysis would reveal. 😉

The only “losers” – in the real sense – will be those who can’t move on and stay hung up in our collective failure to make a case for remain. The winners will be those who move on and adapt to the new world in front of us. Of course, the irony IS that many who voted for Brexshit will not be able to adapt either but that is where individual responsibility comes into it.

(Still there are those who still continue to blame one woman for the demise of their uncompetitive industries 30-40 years ago. Learn the lessons of history and adapt or…..you decide….)

Ed, if we stopped spending then huge numbers of private businesses run by individuals supplying the stuff we buy would face serious difficulties.

THM – it wasn’t necessarily what she did – it was the way she did it.

It was happening anyway – “she” was an easy scapegoat and an -ism that was a myth. Rather like austerity. We will get through Brexshit as we got through her. But only if we look forward and adapt to survive

So anti EU folk should have just accepted membership?

Anything else people should just accept and get on with, the present goverment?

Exactly Molgrips, and they’d start lobbying their MPs.

A lot of losers will be people who have planned, executed those plans and been successful thanks to the UK’s membership of the EU, THM. Their lives have been sabotaged by Brexiters.

SABOTAGE BREXIT.

We will all have an opportunity to asses the present government in due time, perhaps earlier than expected. That’s how it works. But it could be some time before we have another EU vote and the EU will be a very different beast by then anyway. In the meantime…. Your choice….

Exactly Molgrips, and they’d start lobbying their MPs.

That would take far too long, they’d be out of business within a month.

I’d like to sabotage Brexit, but I don’t think that’s the way.

I think they’d be out on the streets before they went out of business. Or I hope they would.

Edukator so when the “no purchasing” strategy fails what next terrorism ?

We’ve had a Referendum (with all the cards and rescources stacked in Remain’s favour), triggering of A50 with a huge majority and a GE fought with pro Brexit Manifestos dominating the results and the pro-Remain parties humiliated. Yet still the Remainers are trying to derail the process. At least that anti-democratic stance is consistent with the behaviour of the EU itself

Edukator I see all those people who voted against Le Pen are voicing their displeasure at Macron, after all they did not vote for him or his agenda. Can you imagine the unrest if it looks like French agriculture will not have tariff free access to the UK post April 2019. The CGT are already planning major disruptions in responce to Macron’s labour law reforms.

triggering of A50 with a huge majority

😆

#jambafact

. Can you imagine the unrest if it looks like French agriculture will not have tariff free access to the UK post April 2019

French wine already has huge (totally unreasonable) taxes slapped on it by the UK before it is sold. So surely no change then?

Perhaps we can instead try imagining the outcry if UK consumers will have to pay more for French cheese?

#jambafact

Quite.

Edukator so when the “no purchasing” strategy fails what next terrorism ?

No.

It was a Brexiter who murdered Jo Cox.

I see all those people who voted against Le Pen are voicing their displeasure at Macron, after all they did not vote for him or his agenda

they can voice their displeasure all they want. and work to change the outcome to what they want too.

just like we are.

why should they not?

After Brexit I think I shall become a cheese smuggler, ferrying illicit supplies of French cheese across the Irish border into Northern Ireland, and from there a short hop across to Scotland, to avoid the Brexit import duties.

Brie, Camembert, Gorgonzola. And of course Bleu d’Auvergne.

I should be fine so long as they don’t introduce sniffer dogs at Stranraer.

Edukator so when the “no purchasing” strategy fails what next terrorism ?

How about slogging it out politically, that is what UKIP et al did, remember the words of your hero and leader “if it’s that close we should have another one”
Those so keen to push it all through seem to either have their own motives or be able to live with the impact (or be delusional) it’s part of the wonderful world of democracy that the people can effect change to the government.
I’d still put money on the population being consulted as to the final deal on offer through this current government collapsing and the EU offering an olive branch option. That is in everyone’s best interest.

As said a few times rollin over and letting DD balls it all up by thinking he is in a stronger position is not in any bodies interest.

The trouble is, leavers will never tolerate a second referendum because too many of them think they’d lose. Even Jamba admits that. It only needs a small swing of people who voted fantasy brexit but don’t like the actual brexit offered- it’s the difference between saying “let’s go to this restaurant” and ordering something you hate once you’re in there.

It was a Brexiter who murdered Jo Cox.

FFS that is one of the saddest posts on this whole thread. 😯