Currently at a wedding in France and feeling very European.

🙂

teamhurtmore – Member
True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can’t let the old vote go, isn’t it?

still struggling to understand democracy I see.

100% Joe. Your “version” (sic) is totally alien to me, correct.

Enjoy and make merry @IGM. At my wedding in France eurosceptics where in the majority and UK guests where only about 20% of the total fyi

Brexit is definitely happening.

G20 has gone very well with all major trading partners looking to deepen their relationships with the UK.

Onwards and upwards

Enjoy and make merry @IGM. At my wedding in France eurosceptics where in the majority and UK guests where only about 20% of the total fyi

Hardly a representative example Jambas!

You are surprised people have principles and feel that Brexit was won on a fabric of lies

The mark of a man JY..

So just to check, everyone who voted conservative wants a vote on fox hunting?
Everyone who voted labour supported nationalising the railways?

That should put the GE was a 2nd referendum claim to bed.

Trade wise there is a reason trade deals take a decent amount of time to negotiate, it’s complicated and difficult. These days the stronger party gets more of what they want. A desperate UK negotiating with a US first US is never going to be good for the UK.

At my wedding

LOL

And big Dave reckons dogs can’t look up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

All going according to plan, then

Re Dracs link, 2 things:

1) with the sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine Germany has shown that principle over profit reigns. Difficult for some to understand, granted.
2) Brexies keep on that Germany has done best out of the EU, so why, exactly, would they undermine it?

And, yes, all running on that well oiled plan…. 😆

Did jambs actually have an EU in/out poll at his own wedding? 😯

At my wedding we all just got drunk and had a bit of a dance, grilling the guests over their political persuasions never made it onto the order of ceremonies 😉

MH because ultimately the Germans will have to accept that having only a small set of winners doesn’t work (sound familiar?) . At some point, they have to accept that they will have to formalise the transfer of the surpluses that the (broken) system inevitably creates (for them) to the deficit nations (all those lazy S Europeana who can’t get thier houses together, apparently). The myopic view of how it (doesn’t) work means the they find this unacceptably despite it being blindingly obvious as a basic requirement for the EZ to work.

@kimbers we talk a lot about politics actually, a few of my in-laws are elected officials one even considered standing as Macron’s Parliamentary candidate in his home town and would certainly had won if he’d done so. Clearly not at the wedding though, before and after. Getting drunk isn’t a thing with my in-laws, my 20 guests drank more than my wife’s 90

@teamhurtmore the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members. In any case they won’t have to they’ll just maintain the status quo.

Classy as ever.

Glass houses dear boy
How about some facts – how many bans has DD got for being mean to people and what is their duration and how about you [ or me for that matter]
HOW MANY YEARS DOES IT HAVE TO LAST FOR YOU TO STOP PREDICTING ITS DEMISE?
Its a genuine question I am just wondering if i will l have a chance to live to see it.

Not strictly true Jambas. There is a massive private sector transfer via Target 2 balances – of course ultimately back stopped unwittingly by the Bundesbamk – indeed Germany has a massive exposure to the ultimate demise as a result – circa 30% of GDP. As long as the EZ survives then Target 2 balances remain nothing more than an accounting entry. On demise, they become reality with Herr and Frau Schmidt at the sharp end.

So massive transfers HAVE taken place especially since 2007 albeit from the private sector.

Blimey, some abuse has finally been edited out. The world is changing ….

We can still insult the SNP especally its leader?
What about sweaty scots?
Can we use that ?
Surely we can still talk to A-A about reading?

Shall i go on …no but you will 😉

The result is plain to see: the civil service is no longer a Rolls-Royce but a battered Nissan Micra with a neurotically nervous driver.

😀

This country so needs to crash and burn to finally put pay to its ridiculous pretensions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/brexit-salvations-illusory?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members

A bit confused… is the EU bad because the richer countries pay in too much, and the poorer countries not enough, and because money is directed to regions in need of an economic lift, or it is it bad because it leaves the poorer regions to wither on the vine? Is it bad when education and training is funded in Wales or Poland where a shift in skills is required, or bad because it somehow stops the most successful regions of the richest countries to increase exports around the world?

So, should we richer counties help the poorer regions less or more?

Should the obvious, and the less direct, benefits we richer countries gain by being in the EU be better spread to poorer regions, and how do we explain to the economically illilterate amoungst us (I include myself and many of our government ministers in that) how that benefits all of us, not just the recipients of EU measures?

Kelvin those are the sort of questions that led to the experts being lined up against the wall.
As usual Vince Cable has some common sense going on
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40547733
“Brexit may never happen”

Remember the prime concern of any MP at the moment is getting reelected when this government collapses. Plenty of time to defy the whip and vote how you actually think.

the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members

As I think that Jamba and THM were really talking about the Euro more than the EU, I should add that I agree with those that say the Southern countries joined at the wrong rate, and splitting the Euro into two currencies early on could have avoided lots of pain… past mistakes… taking an age to mitigate the effects… recent figures give hope that things are moving on though… and Germany helping the other members more than some give them credit for.

Germany won’t leave the Eurozone, never mind the EU.

Oh, and we’re not in the Eurozone… but we did do our bit to bail out Ireland. Go us!

Kelvin, i do not have the same view as Jambas. I am very anti the Euro as a common currency for very obvious reasons – the havoc that it has already created across Europe is indicative of the fact that it is already broken and broken a long time ago, in fact from inception and in design – as is Jambas. But I am pro the EU (at its highest level) the four central pillars and our membership of it. Jambas is not. Most importantly I am fully behind the idea of FoM.

We got our money back from any bailout and were protected from future ones despite the lies spouted by Brexshiteers. But you are correct, we’re not in the EZ despite Brexshiteers trying to confuse people on what that meant/means.

The sitatuion that CMD ended up with as good as it gets. That is the folly of the whole thing. Exacerbated by the fact that many feel compelled to define this issue according to predetermined party political allegiances. The second folly.

Why are these more accurate than the real news

The trade deal, which could see tariff-free trading with Japan, the world’s third-largest economy, would be exactly the sort of boost to the economy that the UK has no real interest in.

“Phew, that was close,” said Brexit supporter and unemployed village idiot Simon Williams.

“Imagine if project fear had worked last year and we’d voted to remain in the EU, then we’d end up caught up in this horribly profitable free-trade deal with Japan.

“Yes, it would prove to be a huge boost to British businesses, leading to an economic bounce that could see new jobs and wage increases, but we’d have to talk to French people, which would be an absolute disaster for some reason.

“We caught a lucky break there. Without Brexit, we might have Europeans telling us we no longer have to pay tariffs on trade with Japan.

“The nerve of these people.”

It is understood that Liam Fox is currently working on a post-Brexit trade deal to supply a small shop in Wisconsin with a regular selection of English cheeses.

the havoc that it has already created across Europe is indicative of the fact that it is already broken and broken a long time ago, in fact from inception and in design

again how many years does it have to exist for before you stop saying this – surely there must be a cut off point where reality dents your hypothesis?
what is it?

The production site of the new Mini electric is now in doubt. If BMW don’t get some promisises from the British government it’ll be built in Regensburg or Leipzig rather than the UK. The problem is that if they use a motor built in Germany it could be subject to customs on the way into Britain, on the way out again or both. Anyohow they want guarantees and cash from Britain to build it in Britain. I suspect the motor will come from Continental who already build the fast-charge verson of the Zoé (though most Zoé buyers opt for the Renault motor which is slower to charge but more efficient).

Conséquences du Brexit

Si la plupart des Mini sont aujourd’hui à 70 % produites au Royaume-Uni,q ui assure 70 % e la production, le nombreuses inconnues quant à l’issue du Brexit pousse le constructeur à changer son fusil d’épaule pour envisager deux autres sites de production, tous deux situés en Allemagne. Le premier est l’usine Regensburg , où certaines Mini sont d’ores et déjà produits, et le second est celle de Leipzig qui assure aujourd’hui l’assemblage de la BMW i3.

Pour le constructeur, la décision n’est pas simple et dépendra de l’évolution du Brexit, notamment au niveau des tarifs douaniers. Sur ce point, la mécanique n’est pas évidente, d’autant qu’on ne sait pas vers quoi vont aboutir les discussions entre le Royaume-Uni et l’Europe. «?Si vous produisez le moteur en Allemagne, que vous assemblez la voiture dans une usine britannique et que vous vendez cette voiture sur le marché allemand, les tarifs douaniers pourraient être remboursés?» a estimé le responsable du groupe, précisant avoir déjà renocntré à plusieurs reprises le ministe de l’industrie britannique, Greg Cack. Objectif : avoir un soutien et des garanties si le constructeur décide de conserver sa production outre-manche. Car si les négociations du Brexit tournent mal, Mini a beaucoup à perdre sur ses véhicules vendus à l’export. Le gouvernement britannique devra donc mettre la main à la poche pour convaincre son constructeur national d’industrialiser sa voiture électrique sur son territoire.

This is why Cable reckons that Brexit will never happen, it’s slowly dawning that we will either have to accept a big fee or a big cost in jobs. Airbus, auto industry etc.

Leaving all those agencies, thru ecj means that we cede sovereignty, current gov plans for medicines & nuclear agencies are to just copy all EU laws- as new drugs are released/ regs updated – straight into UK law so we can still export/import drug/ nuclear material….

That’s right the UK will just be implementing whatever drug & nuclear regs the EU decide without any input any more….

…. Cable’s wrong tho, brexies will keep fapping away over whatever mogg, johnson, gove etc explain is best for them

higher prices, less choice and poorer quality

New centrist grouping?

Home

https://theconversation.com/european-law-expert-uk-has-sparked-race-to-the-bottom-that-will-strip-citizens-of-their-rights-80518?

Whilst I agree with the analysis in that article, Kimbers, what it misses is that the leaders of the 27 I’ve listened to recognise that the Brits in their countries make a positive contribution and there is no need to use them as bargaining chips. They’re simply welcome because they’re useful. I can’t see Macron or Merkel kicking anyone out, they’re pragmatic humanists.

Unfortuneately Brexit Britain fails to recongnise the contribution made by EU citizens and is happy to bite of its tongue spite its face. Being heartless, uncaring expletive deleteds the Brexiters don’t give a flying anything about the individuals concerned.

EU definitely using citizens as bargaining chips as demonsrated by refusing to discuss the issue for a year and then insisting the ECJ applies in a country outside the EU. May made a very generous offer predictably the High Priest of the EU chips in. 3m EU citizens in tje UK vs just 800,000 Brits in the EU most of them bringing money into relatively poor regions. It will be cheap for UK to pay emergwncy medical cover amd offer nhs cover for serious illness. If Brits abroad want foreign medical cover they can pay for it via local taxes or insurance like they do in Asia, US etc. I know plenty of retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

Edukator BMW can make the electric Mini wherever they wish. Very very inefficient to make one model elsewhere though. If they are serious they should just move the lot

Bloomberg has been picking up on EU budget discussions and how much local European government relies on grants, they are facing big cuts as fhe maijor contributors like France amd Germany don’t wamt to pay the 16% increases required. Tough for Macron as he is already facing 50€ bn of austerity cuts to meet debt / gdp requirements

Germany is facing 6-8€ bn more pa to the EU and needing to find 30€bn extra pa for NATO. Plus Merkel has tk admit at least 60% of the 100€ bn of “loans” to Greece are in fact a GIFT

So far Chapeau to EU France and Germany for keeping this mostly out of the headlines and their smoke screen of the Brexit divorce bill.

Edukator it makes much more sense, financial and political to sign a free trade deal with Japan for cars than Europe. Focus on electric / hybrid at which they excel. Japanese manufacturers sell cars here with wto tariffs so can French and German manufacturers.

The posturing from the EU will get resolved as we export £10bn worth of cars/components and import £40bn worth from EU.

Its easy to see a tariff free trade deal with Japan favouring hybrids combined with anti-diesel tariffs/taxes. Remember Michael Gove is environment minister

1.2 million Brits living in the EU according to the UN.

May’s offer wasn’t generous, did you read Kimber’s article Jamba.

Britain will continue to pay its contribution one way or another just as Norway and Switzerland do. The 27 are unlikely to agree to anything else.

Macron knows that growing your way out of economic stagnation is better than austerity. There is no talk of austerity in France.

Germany won’t need to contribute any more either. Britain will continue to contribute and there’s less need for cash as many European countires are doing better.

The headlines in France and Germany are a lot more realistic than the jingoistic little-Britain bile I see the Tory press. I have never seen the kind of provocative outrageous lies the tory press publishes on French or German news stands.

Edit: why would the Japanese invest in Britain when they will face tarifs at the whim of the EU on anything made in Britain, and can do a deal with the EU (which won’t benefit Britian obviously).

Blimey, some abuse has finally been edited out. The world is changing ….

The Moderators asked me to report more a while back. I still ignore Junkyard though, seems best

I know plenty of rich retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

FTFY

Japanese manufacturers sell cars here with wto tariffs so can French and German manufacturers.

Not any more, tarrifs slashed thanks to that new EU/Japan trade deal we are about to quit.

Brexit really is a fabulous step backwards in a global economy

DrJ – Member

I know plenty of rich retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

FTFY

Posted 46 minutes ago #

Jamby’s at it again – remember, despite the platitudes and reasoning he does put forward, his world view is entirely corrupted by the fact that only rich people exist in that world view.

Everyone else is, well, superfluous.

His comments are littered with references to ‘everyone’, ‘lots of people’ etc – just remember he is only referring to people with enough dosh to be considered worthy of consideration.

Dannyh, in the interest of accuracy, Jamba’s post didn’t have the word ‘rich’ in it- that was inserted by DrJ.

I’ll refrain from further comment.

Yes, I realised that – I couldn’t be bothered (genuinely – not selective) to quote both and the quote function doesn’t show strikethrough/bold etc unless you make it do so.

My point still stands. if you look back through Jamby’s posts a good few state sweeping assertions that can only be true if you apply the subtext of only considering wealthy people.

For example:

“The rest of the world does just fine”

“I know plenty of retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.”

Nope on both counts. The rest of the world does not do very well if you consider all the billions of people on earth.

‘Plenty’ of people when applied to Asia would have to run into the hundreds of millions – I doubt Jamby’s contacts number that many, even if he is simply fab at networking.

Well perhaps France is the new model?

Macron/Phiippe promising tax cuts for the wealthy, public sector pay freezes, higher fag prices, and moves to cure France’s addiction to debt.

😀

The posturing from the EU will get resolved as we export £10bn worth of cars/components and import £40bn worth from EU.

still the old ones are the best I see

Amazing that this has to be explained to a Brexiteer, but some are willing to risk an economic hit for a political reasons !

also the actual numbers are £13bn vs £39bn not really jambafact more jambadeliberateroundingerror ?

http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners

anyway the reality is that even german auto manufacturers which stand to lose the most realise the value of maintaining the single market & customs union over appeasing the foot stamping little englanders

http://news.sky.com/story/german-business-bosses-in-post-brexit-trade-warning-for-may-10942256

It seems the best thing you can do is close your eyes and keep shouting “they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, ….”

until weve actually left and then say its all the germans fault when we loose all those manufacturers to countries that have trade deals with the worlds largest free trade zone….