Trying to deal with things in isolation simply leads to academic solutions and nice text book examples, it’s not the real world. Brexit and Austerity are part of this decade, they are occurring and happening in one form or another across the board.

Brexit must consider the economic impacts and the limitations that will place on the UK going forward – like no public sector pay rises for 5 years or more, or no new schools, no 350 million/week on the NHS.

Try finding a Brexit Mandate with that message then when presented with a final deal that will probably not deliver what the brexit lot wanted, not satisfy the remaining majority or deliver stability for the UK what should be done?

I am not suggesting looking at things in isolation – that is exactly where the Austerity misunderstanding comes from ie, if you look at specific areas in isolation you could conclude that austerity is a reality – and in the personal context that is perfectly understandable – when in the broader contest it is/was a myth. There has been no austerity at the aggregate level, on the contrary we have continued to spend more than we receive (we = the state)

For many people including Scottish (G)Nats the economy is a side show anyway – it’s about sovereignty and this mythical goal of taking back control. Note that jambas was happy to accept ST economic pain for wider goals.

FWIW! I doubt very much that the final solution will resemble what the hard Brexshiteers want – both sides are too sensible for that as its a lose:lose

Option C – focus on the day job.

Off you trot then… your contributions since your return have been utterly pointless. So much effort going into telling others not to call for a change from the damaging course we all can see we are currently on.

Try finding a Brexit Mandate with that message then when presented with a final deal that will probably not deliver what the brexit lot wanted, not satisfy the remaining majority or deliver stability for the UK what should be done?

There is no form of exit from the EU that will have more support from the British public than remaining in the EU. This has been clear for years. Current Leave support is such a broad church that it’ll shatter in contact with any real deal, hence the need to keep the will of the people the hell away from the process. Hence an early GE well away from the crunch point of actually knowing how we will or will have left. Hence the idea of another referendum, once the form of exit is clear, being labelled undemocratic.

There is no form of exit from the EU that will have more support from the British public than remaining in the EU.

And you claim that my posts are pointless!!! 😯 or should that be 😀

The point being that Brexit is a minority belief. You can’t dress the GE result as Brexit support as much as DT winning the popular vote. The reality is biting and people don’t like it, more turmoil, more pain and no certainty of staying or leaving.

It may be a minority view, but sadly, it was still bigger than our remain one. The inconvenient fact.

As was the fact that the two main parties who received the highest percentage of the GE vote were both clear that they were supporting Brexshit, however much they have reservations at the personal level. Small thing called democracy apparently – another inconvenient fact.

What a bummer….

thm I thought you were going for option c

Yeah, you seem resigned to go with whatever shit happens, well done for that.
It’s terribly British, like going to parties with people you hate because you couldn’t say no, buying people you hate Christmas presents and pretending to like everyone at work.

the context was now, it is NOW a minority belief, if asked again the answer would be remain and given the situation & prospects have one trajectory then I fully expect support to mirror Trumps approvals.

It was perhaps democracy to trigger A50, it would be suicide to condemn at least a generation to pain and poverty to simply honour a non legally binding referendum.

Remember all those schools and hospitals who’s funding will be cut to rewrite legislation and to send Dr Fox off hunting 2p worth of bilateral trade.

I am but waiting for databases to update !!

On the contrary – getting on with things is simply better than wasting time on the past. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Better than placards and demos that will achieve nothing.

Most of us are preparing for Brexit, and hoping it can be stopped (or reversed).

What are you hoping for THM?

Look, we get that you obviously don’t think brexit is bad enough to be worth objecting to. Some of us think it is. Objecting to us objecting to it seems particularly pointless, because you haven’t presented any plausible arguments why we are wrong.

I think he is going to put them on his placards.

Why are you suddenly interested in pointless opinions?

But FWIW, a classic EU fudge with a ten year transition period ie, lots of noise but very little real impact. (At that point and only then, we will know what the EU will look like and whether we want to be part of EUiv). Hence getting on with the day job. Talking of which….

It’s becoming increasingly obvious that there’s a gulf between the Brexit promised by the hard right Brexiteers back in 2016 and what we’re looking at now. It’s a relief to see the tone from the government and press changing from shrill jingoism to something approaching realpolitik.

I suspect that the editorship of the News International papers, Telegraph, Mail and Express have realised that the window of opportunity for hard Brexit, with the bonfire of regulations and hollowing out of the state has passed and has proved divisive and unpopular.

Brexshit is bad for the economy, we agree, but that has not stopped people deciding that this is what they prefer. Appreciate its a weird choice, but there you go…..

Ah, the “reluctant” brexiter.

They wanted to activate article 50 the morning after the vote because they knew they had a time limit on getting what they wanted, a year on has already demonstrated this, and a long transitional arrangement will completely kill brexit.

Bring it on.

@teamhurtmore see @kelvin’s post I told you where wasting your time 😉 STW political posters prefer to exist in their own vacuum.

At least the outgoing EU President gets the joke, the EU mishandled the Cameron negotiations taking a punt that Leave couldn’t win and even in that case that the UK would stay in

“Our presidency had also to deal with Brexit. This disastrous creature which all of us should have seen coming but none of us acted to stop,” he told an audience including European Commission President Jean-Claude Junker

Intersting piece from ex Irish Ambassador in his new book, in his view Ireland needs to understand / acknowledge it’s interests are not at all aligned with the EU over Brexit

even Cummings is carefully admitting brexits gonna be a mistake
though hes obviously blaming the current tory government for messing it all up

http://jackofkent.com/2017/07/in-some-possible-branches-of-the-future-leaving-will-be-an-error-an-exchange-about-brexit-with-dominic-cummings/

the electorate wont forget the lies that took them here

@tmh Brexit will be very positive for the economy unshackling us from the economic catastrophe which is the EU and allowing us (indeed forcing us in some cases) to re-double our focus more globally, to concentrate on where the growth and opportunity is.

Saw that Kimbers, Cummings seems to believe in the theory called “creative destruction”, knock over an ants nest and see if it will be re-made better.

He obviously thinks he’s a genius…but the machinations of a certain political party means he is sitting in the corner of the classroom wearing a coned hat with the letter D written on it.

But it is a timely reminder to all of us that these people are prepared to burn the house down with little or no consideration as to who is in it at that moment.

After Brexit: Will Ireland be next to exit ?

After Brexit: Will Ireland be next to exit?

Written by an ex-Irish Ambassador to the UK

Ireland is most exposed economically to the UK of the EU 27. Putting all it’s eggs in the EU basket with respect to Brexit negotiations is a mistake argues the author

Just hitting paste on the brexit propaganda again Jamby, let’s just give up the eu. Honestly take a good look at what your writing, does it actually make sense to you that we can suddenly magic up trade we forgot to look at?

Honestly take a good look at what your writing, does it actually make sense to you that we can suddenly magic up trade we forgot to look at?

Desperation.

jambalaya – Member

@teamhurtmore see @kelvin’s post I told you where wasting your time STW political posters prefer to exist in their own vacuum.

Indeed. And Jamba (150, make that 75) are a case in point.
The wind has changed, but I think you’re still in the denial stage (good company though – Mrs Weak & Wibbly is with you there)

Perhaps you could link something to back up what you say Bobby McDonagh (ex ambassador to the UK) says, Jambalaya. He states that Ireland is much more EU positive than Britain here and sees the future of Ireland as European.

Edit: thanks for the link. Ray Basset then rather than Bobby. Just for a minute I thought you’d found a big name Irish politician in favour of Irexit. But no.

Seeing the strong & stable government, society & economy Brexit is inflicting on the UK

No other country is gonna be stupid enough to take the path of glorious isolationism we are embracing

Nah that’s just the eu punishment beatings.

jambalaya – Member
@tmh Brexit will be very positive for the economy unshackling us from the economic catastrophe which is the EU and allowing us (indeed forcing us in some cases) to re-double our focus more globally, to concentrate on where the growth and opportunity is.

The EU growing faster than the UK…

People like you are responsible for wrecking our country. IMHO of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/04/hard-brexit-means-people-fleeing-uk-jeremy-hunt-note-says

So i wonder what the Governments opinion is?

And not just non-UK citizens. Anyone who can mrmo

After a year of preparation our government has come to this.
FT Brexit negotiations turf war

all that FT article points too, is that politicians have to be held personally accountable to their actions. Cameron and Osbourne have walked away fortunes intact yet they are responsible for the mess and will never have to suffer for it.

The article shows there is a split between Davis’s department and the treasury. Surely that should have been sorted out before beginning negotiations. You’re right about Cameron and Osborne though.

Surely that should have been sorted out before beginning negotiations.

I think you are describing some sort of plan

something that no brexiter in government or the electorate seems to have a grasp of

Cameron and Osbourne have walked away fortunes intact yet they are responsible

Cameron and Osborne voted to leave ????

Well I never. That’s a turn up. I had them down as remainers. Just goes to show you can’t trust folk these days.

Cameron and Osborne voted to leave ????

Why was the referendum called in the first place? For the greater good or for the benifit of the Tory party, Who was it who is responsible for a situation where 52/48 is sufficient rather than 2/3rds or some other supermajority that is fairly normal when dealing with major constitutional changes.

And who was it who coined the term austerity that has starved so much of the UK or money?

I would go much further and say that anyone negotiating with the EU on behalf of the UK ought to forfeit any future salary, pension and any redundancy monies to a hardship fund for those who’ll no doubt be worse off post-Brexit. That same rule should be applied to the fanatical newspaper editors and owners who bollocked on about hair driers (name me a newspaper owner who requires one of these?) and light bulbs.

It’ll make the negotiations more honest at the very least.

Cracks me up…

Brexiteers now trying to shut down any discussion by urging us to “Get over it” etc….

Weak.

You’re position must be poor when the best you can come up with it is that…

In much the same way that I despise those who lie to support their position, I have little regard for those who attempted shut down discussion when discussion holds their opinion up to the plain light of day to be examined.

What are you afraid of??

Why? You would end up with an even worse set of negotiators.

I would prefer the very best, so can’t pay peanuts…..

Mrmo, yes who ever coined the phrase austerity never imagined that it would be abused so royally on a daily basis. The decade’s biggest misnomer?

Edit: it’s perfectly clear who/which side is trying to suppress discussion. Time for a re-aim perhaps ?!?

Performance related pay for the government based on the economy and mean/median/modal earnings?