Igm has got it spot on brin8ng highly skilled people in at the right price (no expensive apprenticeships) simply raises the glass ceiling one notch and further disenfranchises the very people who think/expect they should be getting trained/given those roles. In a marginalised economy (we are heading even further down that road post brexit) no one is going to invest in training people it simply costs too much. What this will create is more pissed off people as they have to do minimum wage jobs

Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem.

Every time I think “wow, that’s the most wrong thing Jamba’s ever said” you raise the bar. Good work.

For certain the Remainers have been moaning like crazy and it’s clickbait heaven for the news outlets

Wait… what? The entire Leave press is one big clickbait. The Express have been running contentious polls almost daily to drive traffic to their site, and it’s working fantastically well for them.

Aside from that the economy has barely skipped a beat

a) the economy has nosedived, that’s simply a lie. The price of everything is going up, the exchange rate is through the floor. I’ve got a €50 note pinned to my noticeboard, I was going to cash it in but by the time I’m due to retire it’ll be my pension.

b) the only reason we didn’t tank harder directly after the referendum is because the BoE found a few billion down the back of the sofa to give an adrenaline shot to the economy. We didn’t run out of money because we printed more of it.

and UK Treasury / IMF etc have admitted their Armageddon Projections where bollix.

Source please.

Is it not a legitimate question to ask that those that expect to come here permanently do so as they are bring skills and are taking well paid jobs ? My issue is we have far too many people with low skills and / or people who are willing to undercut UK wages for given skills.

All questions are legitimate so long as you listen to the answers.

The fact is that we need low-skilled workers as well as high-skilled ones. It brings money directly into the economy. It’s not that our lot can’t do the jobs or are being displaced, rather that they refuse to.

The oft-touted example of fruit-picking for example: there’s a shortage of migrant workers to meet with demand so that’s great right? So what’s actually happened, is it a) farmers have overwhelming numbers of natives going “oh thank the gods” and queuing up round the block to take the opportunities or b) they’re massively short on labour and at risk of losing their livelihoods?

How are they “undercutting UK wages,” I don’t understand what you mean here. The minimum wage applies across the board regardless of how tanned you are. Are you suggesting that they’re working illegally for less than minimum wage? If so that’s an employer problem not an employee problem. Seriously, genuine question, I don’t understand what you’re getting at here.

It’s not that our lot can’t do the jobs or are being displaced, rather that they refuse to.

Not really. It’s that most of them are already doing other stuff.

There isn’t a shortage of jobs despite all the immigrants.

Are you suggesting that they’re working illegally for less than minimum wage?

I think it’s meant to mean tradesmen who can quote lower prices. Except most Polish tradesmen probably live here and have the same expenses as everyone else.

It’s that most of them are already doing other stuff.

what about those without jobs?

There isn’t a shortage of jobs despite all the immigrants.

when did we hit full employment

the reality is locals dont do crop picking- its bloody hot work starting when the sun rises and usually 6 or 7 days a week with 12 + hours per day for not great pay – i lived in my van so it was nice money with no overheads but you were not getting a mortgage on it. even then 6 weeks was enough for my back to be shot and i was in my teens /early 20’s i dont want to try it now tbh.

I did it here for 6 years it was about 25:1 local [ anyone from the uk] v immigrant and that was 25 years ago. I very much dount it has got any better .

For certain the Remainers have been moaning like crazy

Actually, credit where it’s due, you’re damned right about that. Want to know why?

It’s because “we won, you lost, shut up and get over it” has no place in this so-called “democracy” that the Leavers keep crowing about. Attempting to forcibly silence ~half of the electorate who don’t agree with you isn’t democracy, it’s fascism.

I hate to break this to you but we’re going to keep “moaning,” or to use a less pejorative term “opposing” (wow, remember when we had an Opposition in politics?) because we don’t agree. That’s how democracy works. When you get a result you like, democracy doesn’t magically stop for everyone else. If it did we’d still have the Whigs in charge. Ultimately if the UK does leave the EU we’re going to still carry on fighting, and if it gets overturned I’d equally expect your lot to carry on fighting also.

The – let’s be generous and say “Eurosceptics” – have been “moaning” for about as long as I’ve been on this Earth, so if you think we’re just going to roll over because you happened to get a statistically insignificant number of votes on an advisory referendum based on the back of a pack of lies orchestrated by billionaires then you can stick it up your nose. We’ve got four decades of credit to spend moaning, sunbeam. Get over it.

I think it’s meant to mean tradesmen who can quote lower prices. Except most Polish tradesmen probably live here and have the same expenses as everyone else.

That’s not hard, our “tradesmen” have been taking the piss for years. It’ll do them (and us) good to have some healthy competition.

Competition? Tories hate competition!

what about those without jobs?

Those would be the ones that aren’t ‘most of them’.

I picked fruit when I was young too. No immigrants. All locals. I’m sure it’s not that now, but I doubt Brits have actually got significantly more workshy in the last 20 years. They just see ‘them’ doing it and that it is hard work and then see it as ‘their’ work that they don’t want. I think a lot of people would do it if there weren’t any other option. Of course some would claim bad backs etc to avoid the job centre making them.

Most people when I did it were working cash in hand though. And it wasn’t permanent so it was young people and stay-at-home women etc.

Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem.

Every time I think “wow, that’s the most wrong thing Jamba’s ever said” you raise the bar. Good work.

It’s not even worth responding to. I had written a lengthy first-hand example of how it’s a massive problem for us already, with all recruitment now going to our Dublin office and the devaluation of the £ but then I realised, it’s not even worth my time to contradict Jambalaya. Crack on.

As did I in my college days, picking cabadge and broccoli and then trimming it down in the shed at the end of the shift. Good summer job, good exercise and paid for beer and petrol.

More Polish joiners please! my phone never stops ringing (been like that for decades) and it’s getting a bit wearing…. 🙂

It’s because “we won, you lost, shut up and get over it” has no place in this so-called “democracy” that the Leavers keep crowing about. Attempting to forcibly silence ~half of the electorate who don’t agree with you isn’t democracy, it’s fascism.

You are missing several points

1. We had a referendum which was based on the idea that whatever the result, it would be implemented. We lost, hence the democratic solution is to get on with the winners agenda, not favour the minority view, even if we share it. Democracy is not served by ignoring the result.

2. You moderate a forum that condones the suppression of certain views with mods even joining in the baiting of certain individuals who have different views – so called respect for others/democracy??

Stones and glass houses???

Anyway – few beers fuelling this admittedly – it doesn’t matter. At the very best it will take at least ten years to extract ourselves from Europe completely. It’s a total nonsense to suggest otherwise. So relax, it’s a marathon not a sprint

The process will outlive this administration and probably the next

Democracy is not served by ignoring the result.

Democratic results do not fix things into single state forever. There is always change.

I rather suspect half of your disgruntlement is tied into your preference for a more predictable economic environment than any moral affront.

We had a referendum which was based on the idea that whatever the result, it would be implemented.

Yep, that was mistake no.1

1. We had a referendum which was based on the idea that whatever the result, it would be implemented. We lost, hence the democratic solution is to get on with the winners agenda, not favour the minority view, even if we share it. Democracy is not served by ignoring the result.

Democracy is not served by ignoring the majority. which is what has happened. Democracy is not served by lies, by undisclosed funding etc.

So Brexit won, but what? They disowned the NHS claim in days, a year later precious little planning has emerged. Judges are traitors as is any dissent.

Sorry brexit is not democracy, it is a farce,

We had a referendum which was based on the idea that whatever the result, it would be implemented

no, and you seem to keep getting this wrong for some reason, we had a referendum that was advisory.

+1 cougar, well put.

I think a lot of people would do it if there weren’t any other option.

Is this the bright future we’re heading for … ?

Democracy is not served by ignoring the result.

Shall we list all the past results overturned by subsequent events and votes?

You moderate a forum that condones the suppression of certain views with mods even joining in the baiting of certain individuals who have different views

by baiting do you mean pointing out his posts are factually inaccurate?

Really do you wish to agree that there is no problems from the impact of Brexit? YOu can accuse others of baiting him but until you wish to defend the tripe he serves up it wont sound like anything other than moaning for the sake of it and loyalty to a friend with strange views.

He talks nonsense others point it out.,
Secondly considering how you wish to refer to others, from the SNP mainly, who you dislike you will no doubt forgive me for finding a lecture from you on polite discourse , somewhat ironic.

Democracy is not served by ignoring the result

i am not sure it served by slavishly agreeing to it. Once we get a kicking from the EU and the dreams and claims that people voted for lay in tatters do we have to plow on regardless?
Most voted expecting £350million a week back and remaining in the free trade area. When we dont get that what are we respecting exactly ? I am happy to do another and respect that though but not this blind leap in the dark voted for a multitude of reasons. it was a vote to leave but not necessarily at any cost and with any set of conditions at the end. Negotiations deserve to run its course and we deserve a say on whether the dream of brexit can be achieved or the price is too high to pay. I am not sure how you argue voting on the deal is anti democratic tbh.

We lost, hence the democratic solution is to get on with the winners agenda

Absolute nonsense

Crawl back under whatever rock you’ve been under the past few weeks.

No need, as nice as the rock is – especially the underside – I prefer to get on with life. Much better

We have a decade of Brexshit nonsense ahead of us, so focusing on the immediate noise is a total waste of time.

Of course at the end of the decade the euro won’t exist anyway – the ultimate irony of the whole thing

Democracy is fuelled by lies – remember the Scottish referendum? 670 pages of bllx. Then we had Brexshit and more recently an election where all parties put forward nonsense.

Still at least no one is suggesting that these fools should be in charge of more of our lives – imagine that?!?

The rest of the world manages just fine with WTO tariffs

Liar. They manage just fine with reciprocal free trade agreements neighbor states, large consumer economies, and membership of things like APEC and NAFTA.

Seems the rest of the world didn’t get your memo.

You are missing several points

1. We had a referendum which was based on the idea that whatever the result, it would be implemented.

We had a referendum where that was (undemocratically, ho ho) claimed. The people making that claim didn’t have the authority to do so (as a subsequent lengthy legal battle by that same party proved).

The same person making that promise also claimed that whatever the result, he’d see it through. Why aren’t you holding Cameron to account for that self same claim? He said he’d implement whatever the decision was and that he’d stay on to do it. Then he walked away singing a jaunty tune. Why can he walk away from one assertion and not the other?

2. You moderate a forum that condones the suppression of certain views

Bullshit. This forum has never suppressed any views ever* (beyond those which would be harmful to the forum itself) and I take a pride in our community for that. If that accusation were even remotely true I’d resign.

What views are you alluding to?

with mods even joining in the baiting of certain individuals who have different views – so called respect for others/democracy??

Cheap shot. 99% of the time when Moderators post they’re users just like everyone else. We’re all allowed opinions (the very definition of democracy, no?) and to take part in debate, would you rather the moderators were exceptionally censored beyond the rest of the userbase?

(* – unless it was before I was a member)

So if after every vote we shot have backed the winner what do we do now? Nobody won parliament.
Why didn’t the UKIP lot give in after being battered at every election?
Nobody can define brexit, a lot of remainers are now fighting hard against the Jambavision 2 fingers to the world I’m all right approach. The one that most rational people accept as complete madness and self harming.

If you would like to explain what the leave vote actually means go for it. If the UK is offered a remain at the end of the negotiations vs completely cut off which way would parliament vote?

If the UK is offered a remain at the end of the negotiations vs completely cut off which way would parliament vote?

That’s a very interesting question.

Moreover, if the alternative to No Deal was to remain but review the issues that caused people to vote Leave in the first place (like exercising powers we already have to restrict immigration rights, for instance), how would the populace vote?

Or helping people with education and training? Immigration was always just the easy blame.

When even leave fanatics like Jambalaya accept that another referendum on the final deal would be remain, it’s obvious the Will Of The People argument is a busted flush. The will of the people is sacrosancy and above all, except when it comes to asking a question you don’t like the answer to, then it must remain silent.

Or helping people with education and training? Immigration was always just the easy blame.

I don’t disagree, but it’s hard to educate those who wilfully don’t want to learn.

Rightly or wrongly, immigration is a concern for a large percentage of the population. In short, it’s why we’ve arrived here. We could make concessions to apply restrictions (the same restrictions that most of the rest of Europe already apply) in order to address those concerns. Education is essential (you’re right, it’s the solution) but that’s a longer-term goal.

the democratic solution is to get on with the winners agenda,

Good plan. Any idea what it is?

If you are here and can’t afford £5k VISA application fee are you really adding what we need to the UK economy

Money, money, money – the only thing that matters.

2. You moderate a forum that condones the suppression of certain views with mods even joining in the baiting of certain individuals who have different views – so called respect for others/democracy??

Haha – complaining about the press ? Next step you’ll be sending out early morning tweets. In fact the mods give a lot of space to jambot despite the fact that his endless trolling/lying devalues the forum.

At the end of the day there is no consensus for Brexit.

A historical vote, yes, but never a consensus.

And while that remains the case, I’ll do the little I can to see the wheels come off.

The onus is on the Brexies to create a consensus.

In fact the mods give a lot of space to jambot despite the fact that his endless trolling/lying devalues the forum.

At least one mod seems to lurve jamba with a passion.

In fact the mods give a lot of space to jambot despite the fact that his endless trolling/lying devalues the forum

He may post things that do not hold up to some/slightest scrutiny (!) but his behaviour and politeness is in stark contrast to those who chose to bait him – even those who pretend to use the blocking software.

If you really want to ignore someone, it’s very easy to do.

NW, if you are correct someone needs to let our party leaders know including the new populist. You saw the 4 sackings yesterday and the reason, I presume?

Everyone is split on Brexshit – another reason why the timetable is ridiculous in the extreme.

He may post things that do not hold up to some/slightest scrutiny (!) but his behaviour and politeness is in stark contrast to those who chose to bait him – even those who pretend to use the blocking software.

I beg to differ. There are more ways to be rude and disrespectful than by using naughty words. As you well know.

Just ignore him? Yes I guess that works. A bit like you can ignore dog shit and just walk round it.

He may post things that do not hold up to some/slightest scrutiny (!) but his behaviour and politeness is in stark contrast to those who chose to bait him

What’s worse, being impolite or spreading fake news?

isn’t fake news one of the reasons we got here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

his behaviour and politeness is in stark contrast to those who chose to bait him

So you can talk complete shite as long as you do so politely? You upper middle classes are such a weird bunch…Manners above everything even sense
It is still not baiting him to point his opinion is in contrast to the facts
Did I miss your sterling defence of his claims ?

in stark contrast to those who chose to bait him – even those who pretend to use the blocking software.

Sorry I am confused – can we have pops at folk or not – is this not baiting someone? Your ability to contradict yourself is Stunning…like you are polite on here you could not even manage it for that post asking for politeness

There are more ways to be rude and disrespectful than by using naughty words. As you well know.

He has you sussed

Jamby is your mate we get it but he still talks nonsense and he will still be called out for it

DOnt like it then go and join a “politer ” forum but you will need to adapt your MO to survive.

PS i do not know what you were banned for this or the previous times but i am sure none of them were excessive politeness so perhaps look at the moat in thine own eye and forgive us eh

So you can talk complete shite as long as you do so politely? You upper middle classes are such a weird bunch…Manners above everything even sense…
…Sorry I am confused – can we have pops at folk or not – is this not baiting someone? Your ability to contradict yourself is Stunning…like you are polite on here you could not even manage it for that post asking for politeness….
…go and join a “politer ” forum but you will need to adapt your MO to survive.

Yeah, imagine someone getting upset about stuff and claiming they were being picked on?

z-11 why do you insist on calling me Junky – is it a term of endearment or do you feel the need to insult me with every reply?

Imagine ninfan sticking his beak in with a pointless non sequitur.