No not always, I predicted a Remain win initially then revised up to a Leave result

Even a broken clock it right twice a day…….

yes but if it changes time whilst remaining broken its right more often 😉

Manages just fine how?

the thing is we can probably all understand why Mexico ,for example, does not need to be in the Eu and manages fine without it. The problem is when we look at Europe it is much harder to see an example of a nation that has decided it can manage just fine outside the Eu with no formal trade arrangement with it after royally pissing them off.

What country within europe , that is doing fine, is your model based on jamby?

Its hubris wrapped up in ignorance and insulated from reality by your politics

What country within europe , that is doing fine, is your model based on jamby?

Junky – why do you criticise folk for responding to chewy, and yet you respond to jamba? Do you think one is more credible than the other??

Its a fair point but i think Jamby actually believes what he types and whilst neither has great credibility in my eyes Jambys “untruths” – is there a number of times he repeats them when we can say lies ?- sometimes have to be challenged for they are just factually untrue.

When I stopped responding to chewkw – and i have not read any of his posts for a few years ish at a guess – it was all zombie maggots and glocks and a stream of gibberish * so its hard to know what he thought never mind whether he believes it- he may be more rational now as I cannot see how he got less rational.
Jamby I think does actually believe what he writes so it should be challenged but its still a fair comment that you make and I am happy to join in a forum wide boycott though 😈
I agree its fair to say he will not be changing his mind – insert lame 150 joke here.

ninfan wants a reaction and does not believe what he says so again I dont bother to challenge his stuff generally.

* yes I know

Which European countries aren’t in EFTA, EU, Schegen etc.

The way of the world is consolidation. economies of scale, pooling of resources. running away isn’t going to stop the world just make us poorer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40397312

‘pretty sure’ but ‘not certain’.

Ah so we’re into the realms of “I reckon”.

Ah so we’re into the realms of “I reckon”.

twas ever thus

And in other news:

Dominic Cummings, the man who masterminded Vote Leave’s winning strategy, has described the MPs he worked with as “particularly unbalanced

Sky News

Just the sort of guys we need onboard guiding the good ship UK thru the straits of brexit.

The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU

Translation:

The rest of the world that has enough purchasing power for Jamby to give a toss about.

Everyone else? Well, they don’t matter – except as a bottomless pool of cheap labour kept motivated by having to work 18 hours a day, seven days a week to not starve.

Sometimes a poster’s glib asides reveal more about their attitude than any carefully worded posts or cut and pastes of graphs.

Presumably the ‘business model’ of Nazi Germany’s V2 rocket programme is what should be aspired to on a global level?

Lovely quote from that Dominic Cummings interview:

He believes the selec­tion processes and the incentive structures within parties mean that the wrong kind of people are attracted to becoming MPs, who “to a large extent are not particularly bright, are egomaniacs and they want to be on TV.”

I am not sure one had to work with them to realise this

http://newsthump.com/2017/06/26/eu-brexit-team-absolutely-delighted-to-see-tories-out-negotiated-by-dup-for-a-billion-quid/

So 1 billion of tax payer money to prop up the Tories in power and the tail will wag the dog…..it’s a sad day.

There certainly seems to be a talent vacuum at the top of the Conservative party. They’re out of ideas, their ideology is rapidly falling out of favour with the government and their quid pro quo agreement with the right-wing media seems to be more of a hindrance than a help. No-one wants to be the Tory PM who leads the nation into economic disaster, or to rock the boat during negotiations with the EU. The idea that we can Leave, roll back as much legislation as possible and ask a swathe of the population to be poorer, in less secure jobs and to pay more for unemployment insurance, sickness insurance, private healthcare, even more for housing and to simply be happy to be told “you’ve never had it so good” by Murdoch and Dacre should be ludicrous to all but the most fanatical Tory.

It’s obvious that the Tory-right are pushing for as hard a Brexit as possible, any breakdown in negotiations will be sold to the electorate as EU intransigence. However, Matthew Parris in today’s Times is calling for the conservatives to tear up Article 50 and opt to remain in the EU. It’s fast becoming the least worst option. The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.

The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.

So there is a positive after all.

To anyone that has thought about it for more than a minute, staying in the EU is clearly the least worst option. Just need someone to be strong enough to say to **** with the will of the people.

PJM1974 – Member
The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.

stop teasing me! 😆

Just need someone to be strong enough to say to **** with the will of the people.

Can you imagine the hate the mail, sun and telegraph would come up with?

This may be inaccessible behind a paywall, but the increasingly Hard Brexit Telegraph printed this:

Conservatives and Brexit

And Conservative Home’s comment that more must be done to appease Remain voters in the home counties:

Here

Oh, and Gideon’s newspaper is at it too:

Eve-knee Stannit

Oh and I’m a home county dwelling fully paid up member of the middle classes who’d love to see the Conservatives falling into an existential crisis which splits the press.

There certainly seems to be a talent vacuum at the top of the Conservative party.

Talent vacuum in British politics.

The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.

Stay in the EU or the Tory party becomes unelectable for decades…..

f*** now that is a hard decision.

I’d love to see the Liberals back.

A credible 3rd choice is desperately needed, I for one trust neither Tories with their hard right element nor Labour with its hard left.

Unfortunately their legacy with pledges and lines in the sand is such that there credibility is shot- I imagine for at least a generation.

TBH i am not sure when we last ad a credible third choice – about a century ?

3.2 millions eu immigrants allowed to stay, must be a few Brexiters very disappointed they are not being Sent home.

Indeed JY.

Labour aren’t hard left.

the tories are not really hard right either

There are elements in both party’s, which for me, occupy the harder left & right respectively.

For that I trust neither.

A Tory split is looking increasingly likely unless they want to be out of power for a generation. They’re simply no longer fit for purpose now globalisation is among us and we’ve moved to be much more socially liberal over the last 20+ years.

I have to say it’s not something I ever expected to see after Tony Blair was forced to push Labour to the Right as Maggie had done such a solid job in moving the country to the Right…

Interesting times. My deep Blue Tory parents will be bereft however.

It seems to me the very obvious and very massive elephant in the room is the opportunity for a new party who are economically right of centre (create the wealth in a responsible, sustainable manner so it can then be distributed more evenly), but socially liberal with a huge chunk of seeking a more equal society, a la Macron/En Marche. They’d mop up a huge proportion of the electorate – the more liberal old, a big chunk of the middle aged and loads of the young…

Who’s going to step up and do it?

dissonance – Member
Just need someone to be strong enough to say to **** with the will of the people.

Can you imagine the hate the mail, sun and telegraph would come up with?
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Strangely enough I couldn’t give a shit was those comics think.

3.2 millions eu immigrants allowed to stay, must be a few Brexiters very disappointed they are not being Sent home.

My line manager voted Brexit because she thinks we have too many immigrants. She has, however, happily sold her overpriced house to a bunch of Kuwaitis. That’s how principled and adult the anti-immigrant lot really are…

A credible 3rd choice is desperately needed,

You might do, I am quite happy with Corbyn’s Labour party.

She has, however, happily sold her overpriced house to a bunch of Kuwaitis

But they are the good immigrants with money, we obviously want those ones.

You might do, I am quite happy with Corbyn’s Labour party.

I’m not. The party needs to get to the centre to win. It would have walked the last election considering the absolute shower of sh*t the tories were.

Indeed, a genuinely central party is far less polarising than a party that stands either to te right or the left.

It maybe a compromise but it’s a compromise that only upsets those at the edges of our political spectrum…IMHO.

In the sense that 80-90 % of the electorate unite in disliking it ?

essentially you are middle of the road and the electorate is not – as shown by your lack of electoral success over the last 100 years- and the compromise only pleases those who can only muster 10% of the electorate

I wish you luck in persuading folk that your vision is the best as so far it has fallen somewhat flat.

& I it puzzles me no end as to why that is….

It must be a societal thing rather than a political thing – after all haven’t a liberal party just won in France?

Am I right in saying Macron is liberal?

as so far it has fallen somewhat flat.

so far yes but…. the times, they are a-changin’ as per all the talk at the moment. What’s different this time is we’ve finally realised that 2008 crash was not the source of the problem but the problem making itself known i.e. we’ve had our time and we’ve been living on money borrowed from the future for too long.

Labour and Tory parties worked well enough when UK was leading the world but increasingly global leadership has to be shared with China and India, plus quite likely Africa, and we have to learn to adapt to a globalised world in which we are merely one of many. Therefore working with our trading partners and compromising will become essential if we want to maintain power and influence (in part what the EU was all about in the first place!). Taking gunboats over to developing/poor countries and nicking all their resources is 18/18th century strategy but no longer effective… time we learnt to adapt…

The French are appearing to be ahead of us in this right now.

essentially you are middle of the road and the electorate is not

Not true though is it?