Working Time Directive. How can concur the world if people are allowed time off.

I just don’t fancy seeing a bunch of right wing ideological zealots turn the country into an Ayn Rand theme park

How do these drafts get heard in the UK?

They don’t they just get pushed through by majority and the stamped by the UNELECTED second chamber…..
How much influence does your mp have (unless it’s the pm not much)

And again what nasty nasty laws has the eu pushed down on the UK. I’ll go easy find me 5

In or out, Boris would get in depending on him securing party leader nomination AND not ballsing up his election campaign.

That’s sort of the thing – out of the EU we give the whole democratic duty of choosing our nations future to a bunch of people who are dumb enough to elect Boris, or whatever washed up TV personality comes after him.

Why would Bois be leader? His blatant narcissism has been exposed here. He behaves like a fool not a statesman.

Good question Doc….I asked several on this topic lags back with no response.

So let’s be specific – for starters

Monetary policy – how will this change post Brexit and why will it be better?
Fiscal policy – as above, can we be specific on how we will raise more tax revenue to spend?
Supply-side policies – as above.
How does making our exports more expensive help our trade deficit (or are we going to devalue to overcome tariffs etc?)
How does making imports more expensive help the poor or an of us?

Thanks.

I believe as Europe becomes more integrated, which it will, Scotland should have its own voice on a European level.

I can’t see the EU going for every region ( 😉 ) of 5m people having their own voice, thats chaos. The reality is the larger it gets the smaller the individual voices get.

@seaso the big advatange Scotland gets from being a region of the UK is its a net beneificiary financially. The UK loses sovereignty and buys more from that it sells to the EU and we pay for that privilege 😯 Personally I think we should be paid to be members, its like anchor tennets in a shopping mall – the big shops get a big discount – ot costs them less to be in the mall than indepedent outside and the smaller shops are happy with that as the big players bring in the shoppers.

It’s the principle which is in question here, not the individual laws. If I got access to your bank account and spent the money wisely, would you then be happy to pass me full control of your income ?

Why would Bois be leader?

Because he’s going to win the leadership election

May
Fox
Gove
Osbourn
Johnson

Who is going to beat him ?

It’s the principle which is in question here, not the individual laws.

But as we are being told that Europe is in charge of us all. Could you give some examples. Also ones that the the UK didn’t just agree to as opposed to using our vetoYou know just for clarity really like the difference between control of your bank account vs you saying grab a 20 out my wallet and get the next round while I nip out for a piss

If I got access to your bank account and spent the money wisely, would you then be happy to pass me full control of your income ?

If it was you or the crack addict next door, then yes.

Boris will be leader because the grassroots of the Tory party, who are all insane, get themselves worked up into an orgasmic frenzy over his Rule Brittania bollocks

TMH import tariffs are small beer in comparison to fx moves anyway and they don’t seem to be holding back the US, China or India ? I really don’t see a situation where our currency is weaker today than the euro 2, 3 or 5 years forward whether we are in or out. If there are tarrifs fhe UK will be the winner, more money in than going out. You are again ignoring being locked into a low growth / recession orientated European superstate project

On TTIP I don’t think we should worry too much about that, it won’t be signed before the US elections and if Trump wins he’s going to tear it up / ignore it – he won’t sign “someone else’s” trade agreement and anything new he would put forward will be even more unpalatable to the EU.

Boris will be leader because the grassroots of the Tory party and many MPs want him as leader, who are all insane, get themselves worked up into an orgasmic frenzy over his Rule Brittania bollocks

FIFY

I have ti say Cameron and Osbourn’s conduct during the Referendum has done for both of them. My MP in her reply to my letter was very clear about why she would be camlaigning for Leave, Cameron has blown it and IMO somhave the EU as if they had budged on a few key things including freedom of movement (whuch many Germans and French don’t want either) they could have ensured a Remain victory. Now it looks too close to call.

Ironic isn’t it? That the man who spent the campaign complaining about a lack of democratic accountability will then be installed as PM by the constituancy associations of the Tory party.

You really couldn’t make it up.

Is that your British or French mp?

Sorry too easy 😉

Anyone thinking party political games with this vote is an idiot it’s far more important than that. Anyway any leavers want to try the questions on the last page, little bag of haribo for the neatest handwriting

jamba 20 of the 28 eu states have less than 12 million population. we wouldn’t be the smallest, we’d be around 20th.

and lets just not go down the financial argument route re scotland again.. I don’t measure these question on that, and i don’t think we should do.

Hmm, not answering the question…..no change there

You decide if you want to bother as we know the answer. So tariffs are a new revenue raising wheeze now?

So locked-in? Hmmm, this so-called lock does not prevent us trading at the moment nor are we part of the superstate project. That is a requirement of a single currency arrangement that we are not part of. Why do you guys keep making stuff up?

DrJ – Member

Which exactly are the terrible laws that the undemocratic EU has forced on us and which prevent us from fulfilling our manifest destiny to lead the world? I mean, apart from the bendy bananas one of course.

I’m not too worried about bendy bananas, besides, that was repealed.
Only took 13 years.
Another reason why I don’t like big governments.
I don’t want to lead the world, I just don’t want to be dragged down by it. You may have forgotten that there is pretty serious financial doo-dah going down, which someone will have to pay for.

I pay taxes and vote in the UK as its my primary residence 🙂

Binners we have a system where we vote for parties not individuals (as do the Germans). You’d rather have that than the French system where the Socialists can’t get rid of the least popular leader in history who is now bypassing parliament to push through labour reforms.

@seaso – really there are 7 members with populations less than 5m ? Luxembourg, Malta ? Anyway its a moot point as the Referendum was once in a lifetime and no other leader is going to sign another Edinburgh agreement, certainly not a Labour one.

pretty serious financial doo-dah

Well, you’ve got me convinced. Almost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_population

TMH my guess is as good as yours no one knows as Varoufakis said – we have a sample size of zero to look back and analyse and no one should trust an economist to predict the future (I assume you watched Marr). So your answer and mine as well as all the economists and politicians are equally worthless.

Can you imagine the immigration debates we would be having right now if the population increases in europe and north america where even close to the levels the other regions of the world received in the past 50 years! 😆

https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:GBR:AUS:CAN&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_pop_totl&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:AUS&idim=region:NAC:ECS:EAS:LCN:MEA:SAS:SSF&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

I’m not too worried about bendy bananas, besides, that was repealed.
Only took 13 years.
Another reason why I don’t like big governments.
I don’t want to lead the world, I just don’t want to be dragged down by it. You may have forgotten that there is pretty serious financial doo-dah going down, which someone will have to pay for.

So please give me your top 5 laws the eu forced on the UK that we couldn’t veto.
Points off for mixing up the eu and echr

Right you are, forgot how small Ireland is too 4.5m. Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus etc – quite what voice you think Scotland as an independent country and new member would have I don’t know, plus you need to get past the Spain/Basque/Catalonian politics – I can see a big fat veto there.

No that is not the Varoufakis message – he was talking about forecasts. What we understand are the dynamics of how things work. So questions remain (unanswered)…

But as we know the “control” argument is essentially bollocks too. We have considerable sovereignty and control over the principle instruments that governments can use to affect the economy.

Hence the OUT campaign has to rely on vague statements, attacks on individuals and institutions (that ironically they expect to deliver the control they mistakenly seek) and xenophobia

Website still unchanged today, so we can add BLATANT lies to this too.

So the new leader will come from a list of people who deliberately treat the truth and us with complete contempt. Marvellous. What a bright future to look forward to!?!?!

DrJ – Member

Well, you’ve got me convinced. Almost.

Do you need me to explain the situation in Greece and the collapse of their economy due to the failure of the EZ project, which was obvious from the start?

True. But we are not part of the EZ are we?

We are talking about a very different form of relationship.

jambalaya – Member
Right you are, forgot how small Ireland is too 4.5m. Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus etc – quite what voice you think Scotland as an independent country and new member would have I don’t know, plus you need to get past the Spain/Basque/Catalonian politics – I can see a big fat veto there.

well it lessens the uk voice for a start, so thats no a bad start. plus we’ve only 6 MEPS at the moment, an IS would get around double that.

If theres an out vote the basque/catalan question becomes irrelevant. Scotland wouldn’t be the one leaving anything.

teamhurtmore – Member

True. But we are not part of the EZ are we?

The relevant question is are we affected by it?

I do find it odd that you are happy to accept that our European leaders have right royally **** up a huge part of the EU project, but then are totally trusting of them to look after everything else.

mikewsmith – Member

So please give me your top 5 laws the eu forced on the UK that we couldn’t veto.
Points off for mixing up the eu and echr

Sorry, this is getting confusing with you answering on behalf of DrJ.
That and I’m still awaiting a comment on Juncker’s dislike for democracy.
You really can’t see the wood for the trees, can you?

Which country do you think the EU army will invade first?

Which country do you think the EU army will invade first?

I’d be more worried about which they would be invited to defend, and the ramifications of such.

NATO refused to become involved in both South Ossetia/Georgia and Ukraine (rightly so IMO) – I have no faith whatsoever that an EU force would not have been dragged into these, (ultimately) internal cultural conflicts.

That and I’m still awaiting a comment on Juncker’s dislike for democracy.

As I’ve said on the Greece threads, I think that democracy has more or less died in the EU and naked power is ruling, hence the steamrollering of Greece. But given that the UK is not part of the EZ and in any case is big enough not to be squished as Greece was, on the whole I prefer Juncker to the neo-lib lackeys that the electorate of the UK foist on us.

Main reason is that the current system and allegiances are clearly not working, the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. If this is what we want to continue, then vote stay.

It will take a good deal more that leaving the EU to change our political system.

teamhurtmore – Member

So the new leader will come from a list of people from both sides who deliberately treated the truth and us with complete contempt. Marvellous. What a bright future to look forward to!?!?!

FIFY 😉

The underlying issue as I currently perceive it is that generally, the masses here in the UK are fat and happy, with just enough thumbscrew tweaking to make sure that most of the wealth, cash, money, assets is put back into the financial system, that lines the pockets of themselves and the elected minority.

There’s not enough pain for anyone to want to change anything. Much fear is spread by their media chums, just to keep us being a little bit scared of change. Fear…. Makes you think eh? 😉

The relevant question is are we affected by it?

Yes the whole world is.

I do find it odd that you are happy to accept that our European leaders have right royally **** up a huge part of the EU project, but then are totally trusting of them to look after everything else.

It is odd because it is a non-sequiter. By the Euro project, I assume you mean the single currency. In that respect, you are correct. Flawed in design and execution, the euro project has compounded the negative impacts of economic weakness caused by other factors. It has been crippling for those economies with weak labour dynamics as they only means of adjustment has been (1) massive wage deflation, (2) higher unemployment (3) both. That has been an appalling spectacle. So far so bad, but at least your argument holds to this point,

Now for the flaw. I understand well that the same people who are responsible for this debacle are not looking after everything else. Far from it. We have had flexiblity to adjust our own interest rates, monetary supply, FX rate, taxes, government spending etc. We have had control over these areas – to the extent that any control is limited in a global economy. So the two parts of your points do not follow, so I agree, I would find that odd to if they did. But that is part of the Brexit “Control” BS.

Now it is also ironical that even with control over the key instruments of policy, we are still making mistakes (UK and elsewhere), largely because those in power have misdiagnosed the root caused (too much leverage) and therefore are implementing the wrong solutions. But that has SFA to so with the Euro debate.

The underlying issue as I currently perceive it is that generally, the masses here in the UK are fat and happy,

And you are complaining?? 😯 But wait a minute…

There’s not enough pain for anyone to want to change anything.

Confused? Me too…

Much fear is spread by their media chums, just to keep us being a little bit scared of change. Fear…. Makes you think eh?

No it makes me shake my head in disbelief.

I do wonder about people who question the ‘fear’ of change spread by sections of the media, yet, at the same time, seem quite happy to accept the word of a notoriously self-serving American-resident Australian media owner, with his own dubious agenda, when he says the sky will fall in if we remain in the EU

I question those that want to stay within a system that supports huge debt from Grexit, Cyprus, potential issues with Italy and Spain. Our imports to EU have dropped and if we leave the EU fails. I love Europe. I even holidayed in Belgium this week but I want to VOTE, a say if I want Brussels to decide rules, legislation, laws that affect other countries. I also think MEPs etc are very expensive. There are ALOT of threats from pro EU. Just shows the mark of the in camp tbh.

When we first joined, the EU was a tighter trading block of partners. Now it’s expansionist, taking in weak countries in an almost suicidal dive to stop Russia’s interests at the expense of future stability.

Tbh the EU should have been just UK, France & Germany with a handful of the strongest. Not anyone and everyone.

I hate the bollocks trotted out ‘we need people to do the jobs that others don’t want to do’. Utter crap. It means vast competition for even the most basic jobs. You either suck it, work your arse off for poor pay or you’ll be replaced by many more who have aspirations until they too are ground down and leave. Employers win, keep the poor poor. Yet the in crowd think it’s some bizarre Tory plot. Funnily the two top Tories want to stay in.

I want out. Why stat in a average relationship for life paying off debt, scared of change. Seek better, yearn for more. Dare to dream. We were once great.

Dare to dream?

When you typed that, was there a close up, in your head, of a Union Jack fluttering in the wind, in slow motion, with a choir singing Jerusalem?

No. With you there’s a EU flag fluttering in the wind?

I love Europe but I’m patriotic. Low-brow types will claim that’s racist in some bizarre way or ‘little Britain mentality’.

All the Tory politicians care about is being world statesmen at the expense of home.

Question, what’s Blair’s stance?