Pretty sure the Scottish can look after themselves in the EU, if I was Scottish I would like to leave the UK and fast track into EU.

I’m pretty sure the EU would be receptive to the idea.

@thm.. Argument run out of steam?

No ones is debating whether Scotland could look after itself, it’s what is in the best interests of her people. Anyway there is a thread for that….

Edit for edit: The pack of lies that were dressed up as an argument (sic) ran out of steam in ’14, hence the extra exaggerated BS the is now required to resurrect them and the narcissists dreams now. #SDBMB

More tripe

Read page 16 of this slide pack – BBC 1 has nearly 5 times the reach of the Daily Mail and Mail Online.

An offcom report whose main source for the report is based on polling 2921 people. Great.

teamhurtmore – Member
No ones is debating whether Scotland could look after itself, it’s what is in the best interests of her people.

One and the same thing.

An offcom report whose main source for the report is based on polling 2921 people. Great.

Sampling error of less than 2%

One and the same thing

Wow – on that same logic (sic) the fact the the UK will be able to look after itself post Brexshit means that this is the best interests of our people.

That’s an argument that I will have to park for a bit……actually a very long time.

Just when you think arguments cannot get more bizarre/convoluted/abstracted from reality, along come the twisted yS variations to prove you haven’t seen anything yet……

Still obsessed with Scotland, THM? What’s the problem – did Nanny make you wear a kilt, or something?

Great post Dr – a big improvement on your normal gustuff

brooess – Member
Where did you hear that?

Contact with the local branch (and awareness of a couple of the other branches nearby).

They seem to have been spending time getting themselves organised.
Round here where we have a Brexy MP in a remain constituency they’re going for silent vigils outside his surgeries and I’ve heard putting EU flags on every roundabout – watch out Milton Keynes.

It may of course fizzle out – but I’m not convinced. As Chewkw says he was personally campaigning against the EU for 43 years (before it was created in fact)

Ooooh igm I’m an mker. Where do I sign up?

You can’t afford a flag for every roundabout.

TBF, so should I. I had no idea about the Northern Ireland thing or the Scottish Thing, or the £60bn bill, or the Article 50 process etc etc. Funnily enough, no-one felt it necessary to tell us what it was all about, hence a bunch of people have voted against their own best interests without knowing they were doing it at the time. [/I]

But this is the bit that does my head in, how could anyone who’s lived in the UK for even a short period NOT realise that there’d be an issue in Northern Ireland if we left the EU.

Except that is the chap at my last place of work, he still thought that Southern Ireland (and I use his description) was a part of the UK…, yep he voted Leave too on account of all the foreigners coming here and taking our jobs. Please note, I live in rural Scotland where even the local Indian employs (white) Scots as waiters.

So you did just vote without understanding the implications, of either side.

It is complicated brooess, very true, especially now as people who claim to want independence are now seeking to surrender monetary, fiscal and political sovereignty to Frankfurt. Under mols defintion they should all be disqualified from voting for not understand the basics of the issues at hand.

As opposed to going cap in hand to anyone who’ll have (exploit) us, as the UK will?

Maybe we just don’t want to be controlled by the Tories in Westminster, have you ever thought of that?

Not as opposed to that at all.

BTW have you met Wolfgang Schauble? Be careful what you wish for. Giving up high levels of devolved power in favour of his (among others) patronage would be very, very odd indeed

Still it’s an odd world

From my point of view it’s in the best interest of the people of Scotland that they should decide who governs Scotland.

Newsnight on changing views in Holland. Only available on FB, no direct video link on their YT channel. Ignore a small problem and it becomes a medium sized one. Ignore a medium sized problem and it becomes a large problem soneone else sorts out.

Gabriel Gatehouse reports from the Netherlands

The Netherlands has always prided itself on being easy-going and liberal. But polls suggest right-wing populist Geert Wilders will do well in next week's elections. He wants to take the country out the EU and ban immigration… Gabriel Gatehouse reports.

Posted by BBC Newsnight on Monday, March 6, 2017

From my point of view it’s in the best interest of the people of Scotland that they should decide who governs Scotland.

Yup the Government agreed that in 2013 (?) so you had a two year campaign and a legally binding Referendum. You decided.

@b r why not ask the Greeks how they feel about being governed by the EU ?

@b r why not ask the Greeks how they feel about being governed by the EU ?

Surely better to ask them how they feel about paying extortionate interest levels to private banks which are preventing them from digging themselves out of the hole they are in?

Captain the Greeks aren’t paying any interest to banks, the eurozone took over the debt and gave them a close to zero interest rate and then refunded them the notional “profits” from the loans. They did this after private lenders like banks decided Greece had borrowed far too much (and lied aout amounts borrowed) and could not pay, ever. Private lenders are not interested in lending to Greece at any level (certainly my view as I have declined every Greek related transaction I have been shown inc those with supposedly solid collateral, there quite simply is no rate I would lend to Greece). I remember a meeting 2 years ago where Greek officials where trying to get my employer to lend / invest more on the basis of their (fantasticaly) positive outlook. My colleagues made it clear we where only looking to exit, there was no rate or terms which would encourage to even maintain our level of investment.

With oil at $50 Scotland’s budget deficit is higher than Greece’s

Brooes if Scotland leaves the UK the country will still be called the UK and the blue bits wil still be on the flag. No one in the rest of the world will really give a toss.

Captain the Greeks aren’t paying any interest to banks, the eurozone took over the debt and gave them a close to zero interest rate and then refunded them the notional “profits” from the loans. They did this after private lenders like banks decided Greece had borrowed far too much (and lied aout amounts borrowed) and could not pay, ever. Private lenders are not interested in lending to Greece at any level (certainly my view as I have declined every Greek related transaction I have been shown inc those with supposedly solid collateral, there quite simply is no rate I would lend to Greece). I remember a meeting 2 yeats ago where Greek officials where trtuing to get my employer to lend / invest more on the basis of their (fantastical) positive outlook. Yncolleagues made it clear we where only looking to exit, there was no rate or terms which would encourage to even maintain oir level of investment.

As soon as you move into first person experience, for some reason, I switch off as the bullcrapometer spikes. Don´t know why…

@b r why not ask the Greeks how they feel about being governed by the EU ? [/I]

Funny that, we had a week in Athens during the summer (fantastic hotel, great people, excellent food). The average Greek doesn’t really care who’s in charge, much like any other country. They just want to get on with their life.

And tbh saw no trouble at all, even though our hotel overlooked the parliament building and is one of the landmark hotels – plus no heavy security nor police.

Surely better to ask them how they feel about paying extortionate interest levels to private banks which are preventing them from digging themselves out of the hole they are in?

Groundhog Day – as Jamba says – lending is dominated by supranationals and countries – as you have been told again and again, but still you come up with this bollocks. No wonder you never learn anything.

Blimey @Captain you’ve even upset @mefty. You are free to ignore what I have to say, however I am basically in the investment / lending business. There is no rate I would lend to Greece, in part actually as folk like yourself think lenders would be “ripping off” Greece. It’s not worth the bother or the risk of lending to them. As I posted before I was on SCB’s project team to contingency plan for a Greek default / euro exit. Having such a plan was (is still I imagine) a UK regulatory requirement.

Sarkozy at least had the humility to admit Greece should never have been allowed into the euro. Inside the euro they had access to an low interest rate that their economic strength / budget management never warranted and when you give a (debt) junky an almost unlimited supply to their drug of choice its only going to end one way. The EU bear responsibility for allowing this to happen and for turning a blind eye.

Yet more mud slinging jamba, it’s simply not true to claim that EU legislation involves a loss of sovereignty for any member state, but a pooling of sovereignty
pooling and sharing

From my point of view it’s in the best interest of the people of Scotland that they should decide who governs Scotland.

Yup the Government agreed that in 2013 (?) so you had a two year campaign and a legally binding Referendum. You decided.[/quote]

Safe to say that things have materially changed since the better together campaign made their “promises”. So yes, it was decided then. Who is to say that some haven’t changed their mind, particularly as the national outlooks on the world between Scotland and England/Wales has been shown to be very different?

I personally am in favour of the union remaining intact but I find it rather hypocritical to have a referendum on the EU that the government now interpret as a mandate to do what Scotland was promised wouldn’t happen after IndyrefI and then deny Scotland the right to have their say on whether they are happy with that.

***JAMBAFACT ALERT***

A trivial omission

Shackleton, you had two years to discuss this scenario, despite 600+ pages the SNP failed to effectively cover this issue nor the currency one.

Indyref Yes = definitely leaving the EU
Indyref No = staying in the EU whilst UK does

As such No was the best option for remaining in the EU
Yes means re-applying as does Brexit and then Independence. Whatever horsesh.t Salmond/SNP spouted there was no transition option then nor a ‘”sucessor state” now.

The SNP well knew that a Brexit vote would make Independence much less likely. Hence the result breakdown up North.

Boarding Bob that nonsense link is still bleating about about Scotland not taking any national debt share, if that’s the case we will take back all the hospital, military and police equipment etc thats been bought with it.

Packing Scotland’s trunk

Tenuous Brexit link.

Good to see that brexiters are not all poor ill-educated old northerns – there are some middle aged posh ones too

Few people I have had the misfortune to meet have left my teeth itching quite as much as the good Viscount and his wife

Please can we have PSAs before quoting WoS – senses need to be forewarned – plus there is an Indy5 thread we can use

At least we now know what Brexit is for. The money being saved (NHS £350m) is to be used to revive the Grammar schools (same amount supposedly being put aside in the budget next week). 😀

Not per week @eden, its a one off (afaik)

Another meangless Lords amendment.

Not seen much coverage from the Versailles EU shindig for their 60th

That’ll be all of the 350 million spent on grammar schools under Westminster jurisdiction will it ?

Actually the stuff coming out of the Europe is VERY interesting – L’Europe a plusieurs vitesses is back on le menu. Just who will we be negotiating with at the end of the two years?

[Ironic that it is Hollande (remember him) bringing this up despite the obvious fact that France would probably only qualify for the second division at this rate!]

Just goes to show what a total waste of time voting on something that cannot exist in its current form was. TOTAL MADNESS?

Lord Lawson view (and Sky reporting) that UK/EU won’t reach an agreement in 2 years (not least as delay favours the EU) and that preparing for and assuming WTO should be our expectation. Whatever your view on that it certainly makes sense from a negotiating stance for the EU to believe that’s the case.

The two speed thing is not new though and its highly controvesial with the newer members so imho won’t happen. Also Italy and France listed as supporters but both countires are very likely to see a significant change of leadership soon.

No it’s doesn’t as both sides lose out badly in that case. Is in no ones interests to fall back in WTO that’s the LOSE:LOSE option

It’s not new, correct, but it’s even more relevant than ever.