We rejected you in the strongest possible terms.

Whose the ‘we’. Is that Jambalaya’s royal we.

We rejected you in the strongest possible terms.

Whose the ‘we’. Is that Jambalaya’s royal we.

Trivial and quick for UK and Canada to mirror Canada / EU deal if we chose plus we’ll get whatever benefits may accrue in fhe next two years

Do you think Canada might want to be consulted on this? You and your ‘we’ again.

Rejoice, remainers, your prince has come!

How blair does not realise he is toxic and harms any cause he believes in is beyond me….he would do more good coming out as full on Brexit

How blair does not realise he is toxic and harms any cause he believes in is beyond me…

He might realise that he is, sat back waiting for others to state the obvious… after months of near silence from those that know our current path is a damaging waste of time and effort, and our MPs rolling over and giving May a blank cheque to proceed in any fashion she sees fit… decides now that someone needs to step forward, popular or not.

He might realise that he is, sat back waiting for others to state the obvious… after months of near silence from those that know our current path is a damaging waste of time and effort, and our MPs rolling over and giving May a blank cheque to proceed in any fashion she sees fit… decides now that someone needs to step forward, popular or not.

This^^^^^

I loath Blair, but at least the option of not going ahead with a hard Brexit is on the news again, and perhaps some form of ‘opposition’ to May since Labour don’t seem willing.

Who’s going ahead with a hard Brexshit?

Clean Brexit? Whatever you call it, makes no odds. We all know what he means.

No we don’t – May has stated that there is not such thing, so how can she be negotiating it?

> sigh <

Whoever is Tory PM speaks the truth to you. Such a fan boy.

>sigh< 2x

Fine, if you want to abide in the land of ignorance and alternative facts then feel free, Meanwhile, the rest of us can deal with the actual facts. You decide.

But you are correct. In this case the Tory PM is being more truthful than you are, so yes, I will take her side here. Why would I side with untruths??

“we” have voted out on the basis of certainty issues. These complicate our choices on how we intend to negotiate on-going access to the single market. May is currently looking for a bespoke deal between options 2 and 3, neither of which can be mis-labelled hard Brexshit. Of course, whether we get what we want is the subject of…..

….a “negotiation”

May has stated that there is not such thing

Trying to set the political agenda by ignoring the language your opponents use to describe possible situations, is old hat. Keep it up and copy the PMs language though if you feel it’s useful.

Hard Brexit, Clean Brexit, Clean Break… call it whatever your want, decide that’s the path we’re on if you want… but if others think it looks like we’re on that path, and want to use their own term for it, you can’t stop them.

You can use whatever term you want and on this tread you have demonstrated a strong propensity to use inaccurate ones. That is your choice.

Fortunately the Tory PM is being more accurate and frankly given your relative positions, that is more important right now.

EDIT: so pleased you wrote that whilst I was busy reading the PMS speech transcript on Brexit

That has really made my day hurty
BRILLIANT

These complicate our choices on how we intend to negotiate on-going access to the single market.

But I want to be clear. What I am proposing cannot mean membership of the Single Market.

From the PM’s speech its a direct quote and you moan about alt facts and lecture us on reality OH THE IRONY

Now Mr snake oil salesman what do you have to say now?
😀

QED.

You see kelvin, there are lots of examples of how using inaccurate language makes it very difficult for people to understand what is going on. You are not alone.

Another nail in the coffin for using referendums

P.s. hope mefty wasn’t watching Barrrrrrrroneess Chakrabati using the terms referenda last night!

I think we can all clearly see what is going on and your air of superiority has crumbled due to the use of actual facts hence you played the man and not the argument as you cannot accept you were wrong despite the obvious evidence.

Its really not that hard to show you for what you are THM

QED,

You see kelvin,,,,,you know the rest…..

You really would need to explain how your claim and what she said are both actually true as they conflict with each other,
you cannot hence we get this instead

You were incorrect deal with it as you see fit but denial is not going to be very convincing
We dont intend to negotiate access to the single market she has said so VERY CLEARLY anythign else is just untrue
QED

I need to read 1984 again I think.

Personally not ready to accept that just because our Leader seeks to control the language we use, that we should obey.

Hard Brexit, Clean Brexit, Clean Break… call it what you will.
Red White & Blue Brexit if your really want to slavishly follow our Leader.

No I posted a much better link than 1984 about 20 pages ago which explains matters quite clearly and why the troll’s sad little attacks merely demonstrate a failure to understand the basics of the issues in front of us. Nothing new there and as amusing a self-pawn as always.

But as I said, feel free to use the wrong terminology and continue to get it all mixed up. Your choice.

Going out now, will post the link again in a few hours if necessary. In the meantime, google is your friend…

Stop bloody bickering and let’s have a proper discussion. FFS. My kids do this.

Is that a proper FFS? 😉

Hard to have a proper discussion if folk refuse to understand the basics of what is happening.

These complicate our choices on how we intend to negotiate on-going access to the single market.

But I want to be clear. What I am proposing cannot mean membership of the Single Market.

You really would need to explain how your claim and what she said are both actually true as they conflict with each other

Looking at your two quotes: one mentions membership, one mentions access.
The first is for full EU members only, the second comes in many different forms (and May is claiming to be able to negotiate a whole new form of access just for us, but has red lines on FoM and ECJ that will seriously limit the negotiations).

[ I have attempted to avoid all THM’s trigger words and phrases here… kept my language narrow to get past the police ]

Progress….small steps!!

Looking better mol 😉

refuse to understand

This is a passive aggressive statemnt, the kind of which produces bickering.

Maybe you’ve not made yourself clear? In a friendly discussion people don’t throw barbs around like this, they make sure others have understood. Remember you are talking via text only and it’s not easy.

That’s all I’m going to say for now.

Yes they provide links that explain things clearly and avoid engaging with trolls. Simple

You can decide why/if people refuse to understand. The issues are not the hard bit. In most cases the desire to use incorrect terms e.g., in the market, hard Brexshit is simply a device to create a false narrative

Plus mol, remember you don’t have a shadow! 😉

Would be nice to have a proper debate though granted

You can decide why/if people refuse to understand. The issues are not the hard bit. In most cases the desire to use incorrect terms e.g., in the market, hard Brexshit is simply a device to create a false narrative

I’ll bite… there are countries that operate in the single market that are not full members… they have to accept rules, FoM and court jurisdiction though. Hard Brexit (pick your own term if you want) is generally used to mean withdrawing from both the single market and customs union, not just giving up EU membership.

Very true. And we are now in the process of determining what model we want and where we’re are prepared to compromise in order to (using May’s words) “secure the best access to the single market for Britain.”

The “Hard Brexshit” (sic) issue only comes into play if the UK and the EU fail to agree. This is not the intended outcome for both sides and would be extreme folly. But, IIRC, it is then that May has said that the default option would be to fall back on WTO*. That would be the worst of the options available in terms of maximising trade and investment but the best in terms of faking control. I would be unhappy if that was the outcome.

As a supporter of full freedom of movement of people my best outcome would be at the other end of the spectrum of options (EEA). This is not as good as where we are now, but it is better than the alternatives. Unfortunately my views on FoM are in the minority, so I will probably be disappointed in the end. But hey, that’s democracy at work for you.

* IIRC, the basis of the SC ruling was that triggering A50 was “irrevocable”, one reason why an Act was required, so we cannot go back to the status quo if no deal is agreed – Brexshit means Brexshit 😉 . We have lost the best option for ever once A50 is actually triggered.

Nice to hear Tony giving credence to the Remain camp, if he wasn’t a such a warmonger and slightly deranged I reckon he’d get a lot of support. Sadly BoJo started spouting horseshite again, but he is a liar and two faced pitiful gonk so no one believes a word he says.

We should rise against Brexshite, glad to be on the correct side.

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/17/if-anyone-knows-about-misleading-a-nation-into-a-dangerous-course-of-action-its-me-explains-tony-blair/

🙂

and would be extreme folly

So it’ll never happen, of course….

Back to practicalities chaps – Vauxhall Nissan European Medicines Agency are all likley to disappear along with 50k direct/indirect jobs – however that’s the number of EU migrants who were coming to the UK looking for work – so no problem really- it’s all ying and yang (unless your the poor sod whose income halves)

It might if both sides screw up

Chances? IMO <15%

But hey, hope for the best, prepare for the worst is my motto

It is really rather simple the membership vs access thing.

1. Membership of the Single market = paid into the single market access fund and agree to allow free movement of workers….. Includes all EU members, Norway* Iceland* and Switzerland* (*with some exceptions!).

2. Access to the single market = every other country in the world.

How free or easy that access is on a sliding scale from WTO through to Some sort of free trade agreement (TTIP, CETA etc) with anything in between, eg, you import our Whisky without tariffs and we will allow your bananas in tariff free* (*made up example).

So technically May has told the truth. We are giving up 1 and will be left with 2. What 2 looks like is a matter of debate and negotiation.

Indeed it’s simple – until you get into the detail. That’a mindnumblingly conplex hence we will need a transitional period too.

If we avoid Brexit will Jamie Oliver open his restaurants again?

THM, “hard brexshit” is the automatic outcome unless and until we manage to negotiate a new trade deal. Which given how long these things tend to take, and that this won’t even start in earnest until the leaving terms are settled (eg: rights for existing residents, divorce bill, Irish border situation, etc etc) may be a long time in the future.