Well I am out.. not prepared to support this madness. Sell house, sell business, cash in pensions and I am sure some warm tolerant country will take me in

You could go and eat squirrels in a cabin in Idaho and stockpile arms for the forthcoming apocalypse

Squirrel good
Idaho bad
Apocalypse scheduled I believe

I take your point though. The baby boomers final typically selfish gift to us all, particularly my daughters generation….

A grand act of economic suicide, to ensure they remain the one true gilded generation

Get those ladders pulled up behind you!

I just don’t want to be labelled as part of this, I always thought we were better than this and I was wrong. Don’t want to watch the impact on the less well off while the rabid wealthy right gloat at their achievement.

Obviously I am not a “Brit” even though I am nearly in the baby boomer generation.

Well I am out.. not prepared to support this madness. Sell house, sell business, cash in pensions and I am sure some warm tolerant country will take me in

… and flounce!

Seriously, I wish you well, but perhaps before selling up everything and heading off into the sunset you might want to reflect on how the UK did after it left the ERM (which was VITAL to the UK and not being a member of would drive the country off a cliff ) and when the UK didn’t join the Euro (which was VITAL to the UK and not being a member of would drive the country off a cliff )

.. and the country left the Single Market (which… I can’t be arsed writing the same thing a third time…

Well first enquiries have been made into getting a German passport. Looks to be about 1000 times easier for us to move back over there and me get DE citizenship than it will be for Birgit to remain here and try and get UK citizenship. Plus neither of us has any great desire to stay here under the current climate.

@Graham I think there is a degree if group-speak going with thise articles. My view is the similarities Trump/Brexit is more about anti-establishment than anti-globalisation.

@jimster as I posted earlier the Commons/Lords vote is a sham really as if deal is rejected we will default to an ultra-hard Brexit under WTO rules.

An earlier poster said the EU was mainly about “Trade and Investment” .. nothing could be further from the truth, it’s a political union project, the clue is in the name as marked by the change from European Economic Community. Trade and Investment do not require a court with jurisdiction over anything other than trade and it does not require freedom of movement of people. Those are poltiical constructs.

@welsh your and DrJ’s wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. Same situation as my wife and I. Now I will not deny getting a French passport is easier than her getting a UK one, AFAIK it’s automatic as she is French and we where married in France. UK has more detailed rules and form filling as a responce to many “arranged marriages” and a wish to combat that.

Global political union may be the only thing that can ultimately save this planet from the folly of mankind.

Just a thought

It may be that she can get a right to remain, the question is whether she wants top remain. I certainly have no desire given that I may have an alternative.

I am sure some warm tolerant country will take me in

Portugal making a big push to encourage retirees, pension income is not taxed. Can’t comment on tolerance, eg does it have Spanish problem with racism against Africans ? Malaysia offering permanent residence if you buy in designated areas like Lankawi.

Welsh. Germany passing laws so that EU nationals cannot claim welfare for 5 years, introducing a Burka ban … ? It’s wrong to say the UK’s push back against the EU project is unique.

AFAIK it’s automatic as she is French and we where married in France

Not unless you have children together. The other main criteria is the period of permanent residence as shown by your tax returns. I have one acquaintance who has been trying to get get French nationality for his wife for years. Where you were married isn’t an issue as long as your marriage certificate is recognised by the French authorities.

I don’t see why anyone should consider themselves a part of it unless they voted for it, Oldmanmtb. If you have a real desire to be somewhere else go, but only leave if it’s to go somewhere that inspires rather than because half the people living around you disagree with you. That’ll be the case in most places you go.

one question on a thing if Scotland leaves THE UK and goes it alone as Nicola Sturgeon seems to keep popping up and making her threat , on the surface of her rhetoric she seems as batty as May do they still get all the perks like NHS funds etc? Or will they need to fund their own hospitals and stuff like that

@Graham I think there is a degree if group-speak going with thise articles. My view is the similarities Trump/Brexit is more about anti-establishment than anti-globalisation.

I’m honestly not sure who is wrong there, but I think someone is.

The “Brexit is an anti-globalisation backlash” meme has been reported widely for more than seven months, and it’s not just the leftie MSM press either, Breitbart have had triumphant stories about it too:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/23/brexit-signals-end-new-world-order/
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/24/the-end-of-globalism/
http://www.breitbart.com/news/botched-globalisation-led-to-trump-brexit-nobel-economist/

Yet May seems to me to be pushing a very strong globalisation message in her speech, would you agree? She mentions the word “Global” seventeen times, like she is deliberately reassuring people/businesses/markets that globalisation continues unabated.

It’s an interesting move.

If we wanted to avoid globalization, we should have stayed in the protectionist EU rather than trying our luck going it alone, in the globe.

EDIT: for anyone who was frustrated by the EU’s insistence on workers’ rights, and consumer standards and the like, Brexit is truly a gift from heaven.

If I go I don’t have live among the s**t that will occur.

I thought May specifically saying she wanted out of the the European justice system was very telling. Wave good bye to your human and citizens rights people.

NHS is already devolved in Scotland.

Cranberry I am sure he UK will survive and prosper post brexit however all fires need fuel and that’s going to be the working poor – it’s the way of the world and no doubt I would likely benefit.

What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration
Thought we were better than that and yes I understand the reality of racism in most of Europe just hoped we were more tolerant but it appears not.

Dragon that’s utter crap there are heaps of UK post docs desperate for jobs.

What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration

I watched a German TV programme today about human reactions to things foreign and people who look/sound/are different, fascinating stuff. Overcoming this instinctive stuff is what makes the difference between civilised and tribal

@welsh your and DrJ’s wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Based on what? Nothing that’s been said would give any grounds to believe that. Quite the opposite – she is “negotiation capital”, nothing more. The country voted to get rid of foreigners – there aren’t any votes in allowing them to stay. What is more likely is that she will be like the current ‘undesirables’ that receive texts and phone calls every hour telling them to leave, have driving licences revoked, leases refused – no explicit laws, just creating a miserable environment where people prefer to leave.

NHS is already devolved in Scotland.

And a model for us all

They even put a few p on tax to pay for more services recently……oh hang on

I thought May specifically saying she wanted out of the the European justice system was very telling. Wave good bye to your human and citizens rights people.

You are aware that the ECJ (which Maggie referred to in her speech) and the ECHR are entirely different things, aren’t you?

Global political union may be the only thing that can ultimately save this planet from the folly of mankind.

One people, one nation, one leader…

Yup, I am aware of that, Ninfan, that’s why I posted what I did. Have a look at some of the court rulings which often concern human and citizens’ rights.

@welsh your and DrJ’s wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. Same situation as my wife and I. Now I will not deny getting a French passport is easier than her getting a UK one, AFAIK it’s automatic as she is French and we where married in France. UK has more detailed rules and form filling as a responce to many “arranged marriages” and a wish to combat that.

The more I read, the more I despair.
On a different note, how many Oscars for La La Land?

What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration

With respect, as *one of them* I am not xenophobic and have lived in a number of countries – the people that I know that voted leave were not xenophobic, but did have all sorts of concerns, including legitimate concerns about the number of people moving to the UK. As it is there are far more racist countries in the EU than the UK.

Just be careful thinking that the grass is necessarily greener elsewhere. If you do move, as an expat who has seen expats succeed and fail – be moving towards something, not away from something – the latter are the ones who risk failing when they find themselves in a different country away from their support networks, realising that all countries have good and bad sides.

I’ll join you in your flounce oldmanmtb!

I’m not sure I want my kids to grow up in a country of little Englanders looking for next group to scapegoat after the immigrants and EU have been given the heave ho, when they realise the world is still leaving them behind.

DIdnt you already promise to leave the UK if the Tories won the last election Kimbers?

be moving towards something, not away from something – the latter are the ones who risk failing

Ironic to post that discussing Brexit- that is all about moving away from something, with no plan or consensus on what it will actually entail

Lovely post on reddit this evening about some of the (possible) real reasons behind all this.

(No-one will read this as they’re too busy arguing with oor Andra’- but that’s ok:)

I’ve been meaning to write an article about it, but I’ll sum up very quickly. I need to come back to it with links…
Russia’s “white borders” are constantly at risk, but the “red borders” were crossed in Ukraine. Russia cannot allow the EU to control a gov’t on its border – so when the EU toppled its puppet regime and installed its own (with the later help of the US), Russia responded with invasion.
The EU slapped sanctions on Russia, the US helped. This hurt Russia’s economy quite a lot.
Russia reportedly doesn’t have the resources to really go to war against the EU, but a proxy war against the US is a good way to showcase its re-growing arsenal… but the best way for Russia to wage war now is in the shadows. So it began to break up the EU.
For the first time in history, Far-Right parties in the EU win seats in EU Parliamentary elections. These parties – UKIP in England, Front Nationale in France, etc – have unprecedented coffers. A French report ties this money back to two Russian central banks. The xenophobes of each major EU country see a big rise in their cash and influence.
The Migrant Crisis takes over, thanks in part to war in Syria – which of course Russia is fighting in. This exacerbates all the fears that the Right plays on.
Incidents all over the EU, but esp. in Germany, cause unrest about migrants. Most of it seems unrelated until Germany spots a lot of coordinated efforts on NYE. Germany investigates and ends up directly accusing the Kremlin of sparking this activity across the EU – it’s monstrous to imagine setting impoverished immigrants to grope/rape/rob locals across Europe… but when you think of it as war, it’s all perfectly ‘normal’.
Brexit comes about in a shocking vote – based mostly on two tenets: ‘take control of our country back from Brussels’ and ‘get the immigrants out’. Both point end up completely debunked withing 48 hours of the voting results. Farage and Boris Johnson both step aside in shame (although Boris gets a miraculous second chance!) after acknowledging that none of the major campaign promises are legit.
Revelations about Trump being in Putin’s pocket emerge. He was anti-Russia until he hired a campaign manager who was deeply tied to the Kremlin, and now wants the US to go 180 on its Russia stance.
New PM May is strangely bullish about Brexit despite nearly all experts having negative outlooks. There remains no concrete plan, yet she remains 100% devoted and bullish – supposedly because God is telling her that she’s right.
tl;dr Too costly to have a real war with the entire West, so the Kremlin is doing what it does best: a shadow war against a clueless and hapless West in order to take back its red lines and take out its two biggest enemies, the EU and NATO.

ninfan – Member
DIdnt you already promise to leave the UK if the Tories won the last election Kimbers

Nah I still had hope that the country wasn’t full of miserable old biggots then 😉

welsh your and DrJ’s wives will be given permanent right to remain

The ONLY danger of every EU citizen in the UK not getting permanent leave to remain is that 10 of the 27 remaining countries of the EU that refused to agree to May’s call last year to take away any prospect of anyone from anywhere “being sent home”*. I am proud that my country’s government, from the first moment, tried to ensure that the 3.6 million EU citizens in the UK would be allowed to stay and that UK citizens in the EU would not need to be sent back home. I really struggle to understand the mindset of someone who is able to read the articles where this was made crystal clear and still try to make capital about something that is the epitome of a falst story.

* See also reason 183 for leaving the EU – getting a sensible decision from an “none of us is as stupid as all of us” committee.

As it is there are far more racist countries in the EU than the UK.

Name one, I’m failing. The UK is the only place I’ve suffered road rage because of my French plates (BSE period).

The ECJ has been very helpful to tax avoiders.

currency changes due to brexit has allowed me to go all XTR and carbon. thanks guys!

Name one,

Oh, that’s a nice easy one and it comes with a free windmill.

A country where the Germans I know park their cars in a secure compound over New Years Eve so that they don’t accidentally catch fire when the neighbours set fires in the street.

Where a blond haired friend of mine was called a f**king nazi and told to go back to his own country – he is Swedish and a really lovely bloke.

Where people in recent times complained that biscuits were going to have to be renamed from “****’s kisses” – if they are offended they should go back home!

Where Sinter Klaas’s slave is blacked up and 90% of the country don’t have a problem with it.

etc, etc.

Name one, I’m failing. The UK is the only place I’ve suffered road rage because of my French plates (BSE period).

All 27 are worse than the UK, obviously everyone here hates the French, but they don’t count as they are the same race as us