OK – I am on the losing side here 😀

Totalitarianism Rules OK

Are we going to allow Etonions and redheads to vote in future? 😉

5 minutes listening to the regulars in my local on the indy threads would soon put you straight on allowing ‘the people’ to decide anything

FTFY – I am now getting what you mean though. Not a bad plan after all!!! 😉

It is a fantasy to believe that Parliament is going to be able to agree a strategy.

If that is the case, then why would that be?

If the government can’t even get Tory MPs to back a plan drawn up and proposed by its PM, then perhaps it is a plan that needs improving.

The idea that that PM can do whatever they want, in cases where she can’t get agreement from parliament, is a worrying one. Parliament will seek to amend, and in their eyes improve, the stratagy proposed, which is what they are supposed to do. If they aren’t allowed to do that, then why not get rid of MPs and just vote for one leader who calls all the shots?

The Leave campaign must be held accountable for its promises before the referendum.

Their lies have created an awful situation.

Im not even sure what we have much to negotiate so the whole charade is a bit pointless

its basically Norway option or nothing

http://uk.businessinsider.com/interview-guy-verhofstadt-european-union-brexit-negotiator-article-50-britain-2016-11

Who are they? A group of X-party nutters. They are neither the government nor the Oppo (does that exist yet BTW?). How do you hold them responsible – a kangaroo court?

The Leave campaign must be held accountable for its promises before the referendum.

Then the whole process is flawed.

Brexiters set up people’s courts

😀 Daily Mash nails it again.

Then the whole process is flawed.

No shit?

“How do you hold them responsible – a kangaroo court?”

by putting 3 of them in charge of defining and delivering Brexit.

“The Leave campaign must be held accountable for its promises before the referendum.”

How?

How??
Well here is the problem they all seem to have developed serious amnesia since early summer.

To be fair, I’m taking one big positive from her comments. She says UKIP will fight every by-election on a Brexit platform – that has to do a good job of splitting the Brexit vote in favour of what is likely to be a single significant anti-Brexit candidate.

THM – generally speaking GEs don’t matter to the extent that whichever party gets into power what they can actually do is limited and that is the world we live in – see how the gov’t was forced to respond to the banking crisis in 2008 and even now the threat of Nissan upping sticks – if the Brexopaths had had the courage of their convictions they would have said to Nissan up yours and cheerio but they didn’t as their hands were tied. The rights and freedoms guaranteed by the EU are beyond the whims of parliament, and likewise those under the ECHR, being guaranteed by supranational bodies and tbh I look to those bodies to protect my freedoms and liberties from the ‘great unwashed’ and not whichever bunch of no hopers have managed to blag their way into parliament and government. The ‘great unwashed’, who hold their stupidity, ignorance and prejudices as some sort of badge of honour, being left in charge of anything should be cause for dread in the minds of any fair minded person (the man on the Clapham Omnibus to be lawyerly about it).

You can look and the pre-ambles and founding articles of the current EU treaties to get a grip on what the EU is about and its core values and tbh a vote to leave the EU is a rejection of those core values. The ‘great unwashed’ either don’t agree and accept those values (the alternatives take us to a very dark place indeed) or they couldn’t be arsed to look and indeed were happy to accept the Brexopaths bullsh** blindly – is blindly following bullsh** a proper expression of democracy – I don’t think so.

As parliament is sovereign in this country (at law at least representative democracy)we have to hope (possibly forlornly) that the current incumbents will rise to the challenge. If they don’t then my honestly held belief is that it is 1933 Germany all over again – how long until we have the first EDL MP.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPlEIryW8zA[/video]

You can look and the pre-ambles and founding articles of the current EU treatises to get a grip on what the EU is about and its core values and tbh a vote to leave the EU is a rejection of those core values.

While a look at what the EU has become, and where it wants to go, reveals just how far it has strayed, institutionally, from those core values, and why we want to leave.

As parliament is sovereign in this country (at law at least representative democracy)we have to hope (possibly forlornly) that the current incumbents will rise to the challenge.

So what do you want as an outcome. No Brexit? Is that what they should do and simply (and legally justifiably) ignore the result of the advisory referendum?

If so, then fine, lets be clear. But equally lets not waste time in foolish charades again in the future. We will be having other nutters demanding independence votes again soon!

While a look at what the EU has become, and where it wants to go, reveals just how far it has strayed, institutionally, from those core values and why we want to leave.

Read the preamble to the Treaty of Rome, it hasn’t strayed.

EUROPEAN COMMUNITY TREATY (ROME)
TREATY
ESTABLISHING THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY(1
)
HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS, THE PRESIDENT
OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT
OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC, HER ROYAL HIGHNESS THE
GRAND DUCHESS OF LUXEMBOURG, HER MAJESTY THE
QUEEN OF THE NETHERLANDS,
DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among
the peoples of Europe,
RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries
by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,
AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement
of the living and working conditions of their peoples,
RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted
action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair
competition,
ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their
harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the
various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions.
DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the
progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade,
INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas
countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in
accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,
RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace
and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to
join in their efforts,
HAVE DECIDED to create a European Economic Community and to this end
have designated as their Plenipotentiaries:

Indeed THM – just imagine if the Scottish referendum had voted Yes and parliament, representative of the people, refused 😈

“So what do you want as an outcome. No Brexit? Is that what they should do and simply (and legally justifiably) ignore the result of the advisory referendum?”

Faffing around and quietly never doing anything will be effective and defuses any unrest.

Quietly ignoring/re running referendums is historically the EU way. We’re no different.

The only issue I see is what we do about our national credit rating.

There nowt nutty about wanting Yorkshire Independence, well no more nutty that Scottish independence. One day soon the great Nation of York will be free. So if its nutty to ask for a vote, just give us our freeeeeeedommm.

We’re no different.

Mistakenly, I thought we were – and better.

You can look and the pre-ambles and founding articles of the current EU treaties to get a grip on what the EU is about

The EU project was to prevent Europe going up in flames like it has done with a depressing, monotonous regularity, through history.

The great unwashed are the fuel that is consumed by that particular type of fire.

If they don’t then my honestly held belief is that it is 1933 Germany all over again – how long until we have the first EDL MP.

We won’t have too. They’re already there. What until recently had been condsidered extreme and hard right is now mainstream. Seems to me that a lot of members of the party presently in power are now absolutely revelling in this petty nationalism and xenophobic populism. Look how happily and willingly they’ve coalesced with their mates in the right wing press to launch an assault on the judiciary.

Politics in this country is headed in a very, very scary direction

Globally binners?

Politics in this country is headed in a very very scary direction

With respect,it appears to me to be an absence of politics: Fascism.

“Mistakenly, I thought we were – and better.”

We didn’t even dare hold one on Maastricht!

wonder how long till someone goes for an asylum claim. The way the rhetoric is going someone is going to make a point by doing it.

THM it only takes one country to cause a chain reaction.

Stop **** moaning . You “won” .

Yes they did. But they do think they have won a final victory, and we are out of the EU forever. Fools.

This is merely the first skirmish.

Fascism! Not a chance, we’d never be able to design the sort of stylish uniform that goes with it.

Don’t they look smart Mr Mainwaring ?

I’ve heard 3 Tory MP’s (including the utterly detestable IDS) asked directly to condemn the press assault on the judiciary.

All have refused to do so

The last one was hardly difficult mol.

It was. Surely the fallout has indicated that.

There are questions which are simple to ask, and simple to answer, but difficult to interpret.

All have refused to do so

Easy to understand why though, they’ll be under strict orders not to upset the press given how shaky the nail already is.

The real question is, if the Tories lose press support who gains it?

My guess is – nobody. Then you’ll really see what incitement looks like.

My Worry is that this is rapidly leading to another Jo Cox moment, who’s death seems to have been airbrushed from the national memory. Or worse. Possibly far, far worse.

Someone in power needs to grow a pair and put a stop to this before it gets completely out of hand, because as with the flirting with racism of the Leave campaign, its being taken as a tacit endorsement.

And thats never going to end well.`

Depressingly, a lot of people seem happy with the situation as it suits their needs. For now. Its a ****ing dangerous game to play though

My Worry is that this is rapidly leading to another Jo Cox moment, w

absolutely, some UKIP councillor was tweeting about finding the adressess of the 3 high Court Judges & harassing them there (Johnson also wanted us to protest for him outside russian embassy)

Jo Cox’s killer Identified himself in court as
Death to Traitors, freedom for Britain

The brexiters of Vote Leave have done nothing to put their genie back in the bottle, the Daily Heil and Farage infact stirring it up again

Of course a glaring flaw in that -the scottish referendum was binding, the EU one was advisory

“Of course a glaring flaw in that -the scottish referendum was binding,”

Although binding or not there could surely have been an impasse. Scotland can’t leave unless X happens, UK can’t provide X. (Where X is underwriting the currency, say)

A Good article by Zoe Williams comparing the leavers to a child throwing a tantrum

The trajectory of the spirit of Brexit has all the characteristics of a tantrum – they wanted to leave the EU, and the desire was indivisible from the rage that accompanied it. They prevailed, but the anger didn’t abate. Nigel Farage’s victory speech was as splenetic as his war cry. Next they wanted an end to the single market, and an end to that well-known liberal conspiracy: the customs union. They wanted an end to parliamentary sovereignty, and before long, an end to the rule of law. They wanted everybody who tried to reason with or moderate them, from Mark Carney to Sir Terence Etherton, to just shut up, for reasons that would shame a six-year-old: because they’re foreign, or they’re gay.

Them Scotlander will not need to have the currency underwritten by Englandshire. The great Nation of York and Scotland will form a northern alliance and support our own currency, the T’much. How much is T’much T pound, T’much I say.