“It would have been 100% had we triggered A50 immediately as recommended by Corbyn.”

Or just done what Lawson and Owen advocated at the time…

Things are going 95% Farage’s way. I

Balls! hes still not got his foot in the door at Westminster, there’s still lots of brown folk and foreigners in Britain, hrs not been allowed anywhere near the A50 negotiations, UKIP have turned on themselves and much to his annoyance hes still regarded as a racist demagogue cockwomble by at least 48% of the population
He obviously doesn’t understand how British law works and is reduced to making veiled incitement to riot because he thinks things night not go his way.
I’d say 50% at best- he’s now the bonfifide hero of little Englanders everywhere and he’s managed to utterly humiliate David Cameron

@oldman, I was just try to understand why you said guilty middle classes had diminishing sympathies with those using food banks?

Ah now I understand. You’ve got the names wrong, it wasn’t me.

Watson now also saying Labour would not block A50

“We think the referendum was very clear and Article 50 will be triggered when it’s brought to Parliament. We’ve got a lot to say, but ultimately when the vote comes Labour will support Theresa May to trigger Article 50.”

“We are very, very clear we will trigger Article 50 when it comes to Parliament, so there is no need for people to be in any doubt about that.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-position-tom-watson-article-50-brexit-a7400976.html

enola comments on high court

Not much detail yet but will be interesting to see whether it is acceptance of the ruling or more being a sore loser…..

Has anyone managed to ask May why she fears a parliamentary vote?

Yes – and its just your opinion with nothing to back it up and one at odds with just about everyone who knows anything about this including the UK government

Agree, he hasn’t even managed to state the position of foreigners (like his wife and kids) in his New Britain.

And has anyone worked out how they’ll issue these new passports, in a mass rush (while the UK may accept our current EU passports, no one else will) – and who’s paying for it?

“Has anyone managed to ask May why she fears a parliamentary vote?”

I doubt she is. She’s probably looking for an excuse not to do it or to delay it into the long grass and this is one more reason.

Her position of remainer reluctantly delivering Brexit is quite a luxurious position to be in.

Of all the ways to describe May’s approach to Brexit “reluctant” would be a long way down the list…..

Assuming she ever was a remainder she is now a fervent and evangelical leaver.

Well apart from the ‘brexit means brexit’ sound bites, there not much evidence of enthusiasm for the whole shebang.

I don’t think its the vote she fears – its the parliamentarty scruitiny which will show just how clueless and willfully blind the tories are on this.

she is also the home secretary who failed to cut immigration.

is she going to get the red bus out of retirement and park it in the Commons ?

Oldmanmtb is the potential Yorkshireman. Guilty of guiltily being middle class and running out of sympathy for those food bank users who don’t share his view.

She repeated again today that immigration is her red line

I think the people spoke on the 23 June and I think it was an important aspect that underpinned people’s approach to that was a concern they had about control of movement of people from the EU into the UK

of course she cant now say it was about sovriegnity of British courts, because all of a sudden the courts are wrong and shes right, she also might have to rely on the ECJ, whose influence she had previously said she wanted to reduce,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318
(shes obviously not a fan of european courts especially after her humiliating, mishandling Abu Qutada deportation case
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9215451/Qatada-free-in-days-after-May-got-the-date-wrong.html)

Its one of the fundamental flaws of the referendum & brexishambles,
– What is the red line for the negotiations?
Is it about leaving the single market, stopping immigration, supremacy of british courts, our 350m we could be spending on the NHS 😉 , people voted as they did for many reasons and its why parliament needs a say in how the negotiations proceed, the obvious worry for the brexiters is that so many of their claims dont stand up to serious scrutiny

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/06/birds-eye-walkers-supermarkets-price-rise-brexit-vote-pound

and the next round of increases begins.

Well apart from the ‘brexit means brexit’ sound bites, there not much evidence of enthusiasm for the whole shebang.

I’m hoping… that her whole approach of combining apparent incompetence with hard right dogma is a deliberate (whilst being plausibly deniable) strategy to get the more moderate ie most voters who voted Leave to reconsider.

We’re not a country that’s comfortable with extreme politics – we’re one of the few European countries that didn’t have a Fascist head of state (or collaboration in respect of France) in the 30s – Far Right politics just doesn’t sit comfortably with us.

So, dropping the economy into a recession, along with inflation, discouraging foreign investment with some anti-foreigner rhetoric, sling around a few Far Right words and let Farage get over-confident and start threatening violence… and hopefully you’ll see a big swing of regret come through, pressure for another referendum or general election from the very people who voted out… and there you have it. This last bit is really important – the failure to leave isn’t imposed on those who voted out – rather they choose to change their minds. Farage will rant and rave as is his temperament but he won’t actually be able to rabble rouse and do anything substantial as the reversal will be ‘the will of the people’…

A damn risky strategy which may or may not be controllable but although she had a rather autocratic reputation as Home Secretary I believe her reputation was one of competence… which seems entirely at odds with her current stance.

I know it sounds hopelessly optimistic but of the few people I know who voted out – my parents being the main ones – whilst they have their faults, they’re not people who show any signs of supporting the kind of rhetoric that’s been coming from May, Rudd and the nastier side of the British press and I don’t think they voted for what we’re seeing now… my Mum was showing some remorse even in the weeks after the vote, let alone before this week’s fun and games… therefore, if you make them think they’ve turned the country Fascist, they’ll be appalled at what they’ve done and change their minds.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2015-07-15

however you spin it the UK has a problem. IF we don’t have immigration we won’t have workers to pay pensions and provide care. The current birthrate is below replacement, look at Japan to see how this pans out.

Mt I don’t donate to food banks although my business is very generous in other charitable directions. My observation is an observation based upon what I hear in my local upper middle class pub – which contains an eclectic combination of both sides of the fence I can see the tolerant/caring approach of some of these fairly reasonable people rapidly disappearing and thats not good.

Have posted numerous times that we will be in much getter shape outside the EU than in in 5 and 10 years.

You have, but you’ve not really explained why, and how we can replace the benefits we get from the single market.

Re immigration again. If people are ‘concerned’ anout it, then the government should have done something to make it less of a problem, not just try and reduce numbers.

How few is enough to satisfy the people of wherever is complaining about it? We going to let them set quotas now?

So if May is sticking to “immigration is a red line” then bang goes tarrif free access to the EU. the two are inseparable and the EU have made that 100% clear. NO swiss model, no norway option

So if May is sticking to “immigration is a red line” then bang goes tarrif free access to the EU. the two are inseparable and the EU have made that 100% clear. NO swiss model, no norway option

has to be why they are appealing to the supreme court, don’t think they’ll get approval for hard brexit through the commons.

If there was a general election tomorrow, I would vote Labour. For the first time in my voting life. Can’t the Labour Party please stop disappearing up its own arse and get its act together so more will follow? We have to end this descent into right wing divisiveness now.

It’s been alluded to before, May is doing as predicted, creating a car crash so she can’t be blamed.

Same thing Cameron did, but on a bigger scale, when it all goes tits up, she’ll be no where to be seen.

Nice to see Gina Miller wiping the floor with Farige this morning

So I watched Andrew Marr. Farage and Milled had a very constructive two way discussion – Marr even said the best bit of the programme took place without his input 🙂 Many Leavers, myself included pointed out right at the beginning that the Referendum was advisory – Farage has said so many times too. There was no “admission”. May and the Government have taken the advice of the electorate and are getting on with the job of leaving the EU. As for enthusiasm I would have gone A50 sooner but I do see the logic of waiting a bit for preparation and to ensure the process overlaps the French and German post election period longer.

What May has actually said is the ability to control immigration, that gives her quite a lot of wiggle room. You can control it by no access to in work benefits, forcing UK employers to demonstrate required skills don’t exist etc. All horsesh.t imo but wiggle room she has. Also the EU has created a political link between THE single market and freedom of movement, under enough pressure (like a eurozone meltdown) they’ll budge, we’ve already had politicians and advisors in France and Germany calling for a deal acceptable to the UK to be done. Also we don’t need access to THE single market – an alternative tariff free subset is do-able.

If there was a general election tomorrow, I would vote Labour.

That’s why there won’t be one, if you are in Government why would ypu take that risk whatever the opinion polls say about Corbyn. Most likely more Remainers would tactically vote Labour/Lib Dem than Leavers would tactically vote Tory. All this plus we have fixed term Parliaments so an early eelction effectively has to be called via the opposition and a vote of no confidence.

I’m caught between thinking May is a car crash of a PM who has difficulty working out what is going on, or perhaps a twisted genius interested in nothing other than her own power and glory (and ensuring it by making sure she has both populist support and someone to blame in whichever direction the eventual car crash happens).

Either way her administration is going to prove bad for Britain unless it is reigned in quickly by a strong parliament.

And I am coming to the conclusion that an early GE is one thing she fears – because then parliament whatever its views on Brexit would have a clear mandate to express them, rather than the question Jamba posed earlier on whethet remain MPs who want to construct a stronger better Britain in a strong Europe should vote to destroy.

Farage of course is an embarrassment and Britain will be stronger once we find somewhere to deport him to.

Sadly, the former.

May and the Government have taken the advice of the electorate

Interesting choice of words Jamba (PS can you get a shorter user name I’m typing on an iPad here)

Am I right in saying that there can’t be a general election unless all MPs vote in a motion of no confidence in the PM? So basically there won’t be an early general election, unless Mrs May really starts to **** things up.

and Farage had to back down against g miller . he knew she won the first round and he wasn’t that stupid to go and have another go at the judges .
his threat of violence is quite pathetic .
considering he only has 1 mp , a party in turmoil and been told he will have no say in brexit negociations , violence is probably his only hope .

May is a car crash of a PM who has difficulty working out what is going on, or perhaps a twisted genius interested in nothing other than her own power and glory

Fixed.

See also: rabbit in the headlights of populist opinion.

Am I right in saying that there can’t be a general election unless all MPs vote in a motion of no confidence in the PM? So basically there won’t be an early general election, unless Mrs May really starts to **** things up.

not all, but basically your right.

igm you can use whatever you like, Andy or J ?

There other alternative’s for May, like she is a very astute politician who is trying to plot a middle way having been dropped in it by Cameron and Osbourne who had only “planned” for one outcome. The longer she waits the more information she has and the closer she gets to French and German elections and a (potential / certain ) eurozone crises … the next EU elections are May 2019 so latest A50 is May 2017 as it would be totally daft to have such elections here. April/May are French Presidentail elections so March means the A50 “news” doesn’t interfere with their election any more than it has to. Boris/Fox/Davies and hard Brexit rhetoric pleases Leavers. Had she softened the stance Leavers would be against her and many Remainers too as they don’t accept the result.

All in all she is playing a blinder given the mess that was left for her

All in all she is playing a blinder given the mess that was left for her

if she didnt have such a shambolic record as home secretary that might be more believable

Im sure shes trying her best
but her comments attacking carney, pushing hard brexit, Rudd’s ill fated name and shame foreigners list etc from the conference were ill judged and she was immediately forced into backtracking on all of those as it worsened our ongoing currency crisis and sent jitters through the automotive industry and foreign investors.
and then recently her ill advised attempt to bypass parliament and then not defending the judiciary shes still showing poor judgement.

shes in a very tough position and no one could expect her to put every foot right, but you’d have to be pretty blinkered to say shes playing a blinder

All in all she is playing a blinder given the mess that was left for her

Ohhhhhh…

Jambas got a crush on Theresa!!!

kimbers – Member

if she didnt have such a shambolic record as home secretary that might be more believable

Yup. Thing is, she’s playing the game well. But playing games is the difference between good politicians and good governments. Win or lose, it’s still pissing about. Putting the three stooges in charge of brexit was awesome gameplaying and disastrous government.

Comes a point where maybe we should put all these great gameplayers in charge of World of Warcraft clans or something, rather than countries.

One thing I really can’t grasp here. May is an intelligent woman and altho I disagree with her greatly a decent political operator. Why did she take on the leadership? she must know its going to end in a shambles and a very poor outcome for the country. Was it to stop Johnson? Settle political scores? Did she really think she will come out of this with any credit?

I really don’t understand it.

Power. It’s the top job. The one that all politicians have dreamt of since that first heady taste of victory at the school debating society.

Of course there is a problem with the time window. Must be finished by spring 2020 at the latest.