They’re taking SOME centre ground (investing in training and housing) almost admitting that they should’ve been doing it all along

Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they actually DO!

Talk is cheap. I’ll believe it when I see it.

Regarding forcing businesses to publish lists of foreign employees she said: “It’s not something we’re definitely going to do. It’s one of the tools we are going to use as a review, to see if we can use it as a way of nudging people to do better behaviour”

Urgh, “better behaviour”. Because forrins are intrinsically bad and people born in the UK are all intrinsically good, so employing foreigners is a bad thing that needs to be punished.

People are going to be very disappointed when they realise that making things worse for ‘other’ people doesn’t make things better for ‘us’.

The “Britain is open for business, but **** off if you’re foreign” sentiment is horrible. And this isn’t a move to “the centre”, it’s a lurch to the right, a long way to the right. Naming and shaming companies for, perfectly legally, employing people not born here, it’s horrible.

No, she is going all the way to the far right.

People love to say the same thing about Le Penn and FN who have many left leaning employment policies, it’s almost like they have given up trying to make a rational argument.

May and all those who voted Leave just want the UK to have immigration rules like every other country in the world outside the EU

People love to say the same thing about Le Penn and FN who have many left leaning employment policies, it’s almost like they have given up trying to make a rational argument.

You know full well that it is perfectly possible to have some left and some right policies, because there’s no single dimensional spectrum. There’s at least two.

You KNOW this because it’s been discussed on here many times.

Northwind, you will be well aware there are dodgy language schools who’s “pupils” are really just looking for a way into the UK to stay and work illegally or maybe get lucky and marry a local so they can apply to stay. We do need to tighten up our immigration/border control processes, I am personally am in favour of full exit checks including for example entrants retaining their entry document which must be presented upon exit as per US etc.

@molgrips, yes that is perfectly fair

Marine le Pen has tried to divert the FN from the far right but her dad, and her niece are doing their best to keep it there.

May and all those who voted Leave and many of the elected leaders and people of countries in europe want the UK to have immigration rules like every other country in the world outside the EU but the unelected commissioners in Brussels will not compromise on any element of this as a point of principle

FTFY

J5m – these unelected commissioners in Brussels where do they come from? Do they just appear or do the elected leaders of countries appoint them?

Singapore brings in many construction workers, they live in dedicated employer provided accommodation

Looks lovely

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/06/the-peculiar-inequality-of-singapores-famed-public-housing/395411/

Instead of trying to emulate Singapore, why don’t we just go back to what made the British Empire great in the first place? Conquering, slavery and tea.

On the latter point British Employers rank 22nd in Europe on the amount they invest in training and educating their employees. There is a significant risk to our economy (not least with Brexit) that some of the key labour skills we’ve attracted from abroad may decide to go somewhere else – leaving us without the skills and capabilities our economy needs.

So what has the EU got to do with business and government in the UK not investing? Now consider that it takes a decade to train a doctor and brexit happens in two.

Now consider that it takes a decade to train a doctor and brexit happens in two.

Solved with a 5yr renewable VISA. Why would a Do for need an upfront permanent lifetime guaranty of residency to take up a Junior Doctor’s role ? After 7 years here they can apply for UK citizenship

How many doctors will want to work here knowing that they’re likely to have their visa terminated at any given point?
Arrogant England strikes again.

Solved with a 5yr renewable VISA. Why would a Do for need an upfront permanent lifetime guaranty of residency to take up a Junior Doctor’s role ? After 7 years here they can apply for UK citizenship

Assuming they are relaxed about being kicked out of the country at a moment’s notice on the whim of whichever nutjob is in power.

My Norwegian computer programmer colleague is not very relaxed about the whole thing.

DrJ that’s an HDB apartment block, that’s what the locals can BUY. They are always oversubscribed. I have an Aussie mate who lives in one by the way in Little India, we always stay with him when we visit. Construction workers live in much simpler temporary accomodation generally fwiw.

As a company we have lost two talented staff members in the immediate aftermath of the vote, which will please Jamba.

Work visa’s are typically only cancellable for cause, certainly the case with my US and Singaporean ones.

@oldnpastit well if your Norwegian friend does up sticks I can guaranty you there is a very long line of talented Indian (and Chinese) programmers who’d be very keen to come to the UK to work. I can put you in touch with some of my family members if you like.

What I heard this morning was basically plenty of references to “us” differentiating that from “them” meaning immigrants. What does this mean for immigrants who have already built a life here for themselves.

Tough application process – education/professional certificates, proof you will bring specific required skills, high earning job to provide taxes
If you lose your job you have 2 weeks to leave (now possible to stay 6 months if you are job hunting)
Any serious crime you are deported after serving any prison time / flogging if required. Note graffiti on a public building is a serious crime
No interferring in political process
No benefits / welfare / health provision
Only rent/buy designated “ex-pat” accomodation which is much more expensive than locals have access too.
If you apply for Permanent Resident status thats a 5 year term

Only a small subset of those things needs to occur for me to be separated from my child. Jamba, does this give you an insight into why people are a bit sensitive over this? Incidentally, had a phone call from the school this morning for a census. Only questions were country of birth and nationality. Can’t wait to see what that’ll be used for 😥

As Ruth and Theresa’s speeches where mentioned here I post them here. Ruth gives Labour a good battering from around 8:20. May of course spoke very strongly of course and of a broad inclusive agenda. Labour are in very big trouble not just becausenof their infighting but becasue in the next 4 years the Tories are going definiteoy occupy the centre ground. Mr Blue Sky indeed.

[video]https://youtu.be/YnVQDM0jNUI[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/08JN73K1JDc[/video]

I really don’t want to respond to Jambalaya but it’s necessary to counter his post. This is not about those abusing student visas, and quite simply, nobody who knows the first thing about this government’s record will say otherwise. Systems are already in place, and widely used, to deal with abuse. They could be stronger, perhaps, but that’s not what’s being proposed here.

This government’s sustained attacks on students and universities have been largely indiscriminate- increasing costs for all overseas students, increasing barriers to entry for all students, and so on. The goal has obviously been to make the UK an obviously less welcoming place for all overseas students, and obviously not aimed at abusers. It’s simply impossible to think that these are about visa abuse.

(I’m still not decided whether Amber Rudd’s comments on english language proficiency in english language degree courses came from ignorance or willful deceit. If it had been Theresa May, it’d have been deceit. Rudd may possibly be that ignorant. Wait and see.)

It’s simple maths- 50% of net immigration comes from students. We have a 100000 target for immigration, and 167000 new student arrivals per year. The stated goal is a catastrophic reduction in the overseas student population. This would cost the UK economy billions of pounds in direct benefit alone from fees and spending, and a terrible loss of influence worldwide, but far more important would be the wholesale loss of institutions that would follow, with incalculable loss to the UK.

And to make something really clear; Rudd talks about linking student visa policy to the “quality of the institution”- when this has been previously discussed, that has meant “Oxbridge and the Russell Group”. We’re not talking about limitations for the low end here, we’re talking about nothing but the elites.

But hey, apparently the UK is open for business.

Jamby in not sure how far right you have to be too think that grammar schools, replacing foreign doctors with British ones and demonising immigrants and foreign students is centrist…..

If that’s the centre then 😯

Also who are the elites that were supposed to be out to get now..

@jamba… Theresa May is not inclusive in the notion of the whole of society. Listen to her words…all she ever talks about is people who are working. She never mentions those who aren’t e.g. less-abled people. At best she is only inclsusive regards the working population and even then she’s on very shaky ground.

What a lovely person we have as leader of our country… disgraceful attitude to take towards those less fortunate for no fault of their owm.

Singapore has been a massive success commercially. There is a small portion of the local population who don’t like the “one party state” overtones but none of them want the economic success or political freedoms of Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia their immediate neighbours, how about Burma ?

Singapore has about 50% locals, 50% temporary immigrants. Some feautures of Singapore

Tough application process – education/professional certificates, proof you will bring specific required skills, high earning job to provide taxes
If you lose your job you have 2 weeks to leave (now possible to stay 6 months if you are job hunting)
Any serious crime you are deported after serving any prison time / flogging if required. Note graffiti on a public building is a serious crime
No interferring in political process
No benefits / welfare / health provision
Only rent/buy designated “ex-pat” accomodation which is much more expensive than locals have access too.
If you apply for Permanent Resident status thats a 5 year term

Singapore brings in many construction workers, they live in dedicated employer provided accommodation
Seriously, you’re seriously posting that as an example of something we should aspire to?
I suppose banning women from driving mught help relieve pressure on the roads to?
Jesus H Christ! It’s unbelievable how anyone could think that that is a reasonable way to live or treat other people. I can see why you think Trump is a harmless pussycat now.

Will our new blue passports have Subject crossed out and replaced by Employee?

Will our new blue passports have Subject crossed out and replaced by Employee?

don’t you mean serf?

Solved with a 5yr renewable VISA.

You think coming on a visa is the same as coming because you have the right to come?

I’ve taken jobs in two different countries, and all I had to do was pass the interview. No red tape.

The other problem with work permit visas is that if you lose your job you have to go home. Which is pretty bad if you’ve built a life in a place and have family, kids, they have friends and so on.

Captain I post it as an example of a policy which I am familiar and one which is popular with it’s citizens where 50% of the population are immigrants on short-medium term visas. I am not saying it’s a model just an example.

Kimbers May made a very good point about Grammar schools. People with the money to go Private can choose academically selective schools and the majority do exactly that. People without the money have no choice as the law forbids them to have that choice. Corbyn is going to be on dodgy ground campaigning against grammar schools in Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Newcastle.

The other problem with work permit visas is that if you lose your job you have to go home. Which is pretty bad if you’ve built a life in a place and have family, kids, they have friends and so on.

Not in Jamba’s eyes. He lacks empathy, he won’t understand that argument.
It’s pointless even trying.

Molgrips, I have had two jobs in countries with visas and in both cases there where options / mechanisms to stay if I lost my job. There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job. Australian system works just like that, sometimes they want PhD’s, sometimes they want tradesmen and they vary requirements by region / state. Oz takes twice as many immigrants pa as does the UK and they have 1/3rd the population. They seem to manage just fine

Told you, no empathy just another example from JambaWorld.
He’ll be telling us that some of his best friends are foreigners next. 😀

Northwind – Member
… and a terrible loss of influence worldwide, …

Influence? Please don’t please … oh Lord here comes troubles.

Hmmm is it

Reichsfrauenführerin May or die Führerin ?

panem et circenses

I really hope it is this.

DrJ that’s an HDB apartment block, that’s what the locals can BUY. They are always oversubscribed. I have an Aussie mate who lives in one by the way in Little India, we always stay with him when we visit. Construction workers live in much simpler temporary accomodation generally fwiw.

You apparently didn’t read the article. Surprise.

You are jumping to conclusions……… its entirely possible he failed to understand it 😉

There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job. Australian system works just like that

The Australian system blocks a lot of awfully capable migrants, for a variety of reasons.

Oz takes twice as many immigrants pa as does the UK and they have 1/3rd the population. They seem to manage just fine.

LOL

big_n_daft – Member
listening to the snapshots on the radio news I’d say she has THM’s online persona down to a “T”

Are you big?

Only caught a brief part of Mays speech. It’s was very very odd and full of contradictions. She stated that Conservatives were supporters of capitalism and free markets and then immediately spent 5 minutes talking about the important (?) role of the state and produced a long list of where she was going to intervene. No wonder people are so confused about what capitalism is. NW I now understand your problem.

Seems she is being smart and scary at the same time. On the one hand she is parking the bus firmly in the middle. But at the same time she has targeted the white working class vote as the swing factor and is happy to pander to their baser desires in contrast to Jezza’s pro immigration, anti monarchy and anti military stance

I guess she is relying on the fact that the great British public will not see through the blatant contradictions.

chewkw – Member

Influence? Please don’t please … oh Lord here comes troubles.

It’s actually a pretty big deal… There’s english-speaking graduates with fond memories of the UK and a good cultural understanding all around the world and some are in very influential positions. It’s a totally unquantifiable asset but it’s certainly a positive.

The Australian system blocks a lot of awfully capable migrants, for a variety of reasons.

because they have an even more capable applicant ?

DrJ, that’s a fair point. I got bored after the first paragraph. The Singaporeans are pretty functional about workers accomodation, they point out it’s better than they have in their home countries and the wages are higher than they’d get at home too.