David Lammy also reporting ‘thousands upon thousands’ of abusive emails, tweets etc. I’m not saying most Leavers are racists but most racists are Leavers…

indeed. If you look at this whole sorry debacle, from start to finish, all the main protagonists have just been able to view it as a big game. Its not real. Not for them. insulated as they are from the fallout by wealth and power.

Or in Jamba’s case by living outside the UK, safe in an EU country. For now.

Have I got that wrong Jamba?

But we got our country back!

Not yet we haven’t. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and she ain’t been elected yet.

take some breaths and pause in the Jamba baiting

Was it different when you spent pages and pages reminding him and mocking him for not having answered your basic questions?

Its not even fair to call it baiting either
Its not unreasonable to point out he is unaffected by the decision and he has gambled with other people livelihoods for his political gain
Not only that but he will remain an EU citizen.

But we got our country back!

Quite the reverse I’d say. We handed it over to a very dubious collective of racists and profiteers.

the Pound is going south again!

My main concern is that there will suddenly be a fall in the amount of sexy southern European women to oggle in the capital.

Now, if I’m ever single again, I’m either going to have to choose between the result of centuries of inbreeding among the descendants of rodents (upper classes) or fat, alcoholic, barely comprehensible chavs.

1) It’s not your job that’s at risk due to short term volatility, is it? 2) You’ve put OTHER people’s jobs at risk for your ideology.

1) To the contrary
2) You really need to look at the medium and long term prospects and the risks of being in the EU to answer that question.

Merkel, Hollande seem to have effectively kicked the eurozone debt crises into the long grass out of sight of the majority and here in the UK there isn’t an appreciation of how sick the European economies are with 25-50% youth unemployment.

You are also ignoring the fact that eurosceptism is higher in many parts of Europe than it is in the UK. We are not alone is being fed up with this failing political project

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny and not be part of a political Union project unlike any anywhere else in the world, if thats an ideology then yes please.

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny

…is a pipedream.

the Pound is going south again!

Market comment that this is quite possibly due to negative sentiment on Italian Banks and the German stock market (still down since 23rd but FTSE is higher). Very hard to decipher these day to day moves. Quite possibly short term profit taking ahead of BoE statement of trades just squaring positions.

It wasn’t Jamba baiting. It’s not personal, even though it sounds like it.

It does and is now over-stepping the mark

Point is that leavers have potentially jeopardised everyone’s currently fragile security, on a mostly ideological basis. Don’t you agree?

Wholeheartedly.

As you say, things may not get better or may not return to normal, but in the process whilst the headline GDP figures may go up and down a bit, actual individual lives could quickly be thrown into all sorts of turmoil and difficulty.

In my case, Brexit will create meaningfully negative consequences, hence I am unhappy about it. And the basis was fundamentally flawed, which makes me angry. I also unleashed an undercurrent of xenophobia which makes me disappointed/ashamed.

Yes, I disagreed strongly with nearly every point Jambas and VL made – but hopefully without being personal and rude to him. He knows what I think about the arguments but that is different.

Time for some perspective and less personal stuff – leave that for the chief

…is a pipedream.

Its one that the rest of the World seems to believe in

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny and not be part of a political Union project unlike any anywhere else in the world, if thats an ideology then yes please.

Europe needs to integrate, to resist the other two great empires of the world – America and China.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAHL5oPXOD0[/video]

You are a zebra Jamby.

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny

Can/will you please explain to me the idea of sovereignty that has been bandied around by the Leave campaign? Please don’t resort to Jambafacts or Jambaspeak just try and explain it is plain English.

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny and not be part of a political Union project

“Scotland looks on with interest as Giant Mess is created to allow Tories to squabble over party leadership”

Wanting to live in a democracy where we have control of our own destiny and not be part of a political Union project unlike any anywhere else in the world, if thats an ideology then yes please.

True… Though the UK is a democracy and has control of its destiny. As for unlike other parts of the world there is trouble in the south china sea as territory disputes rage on, Russia still bullies it neighbours and has invaded them, war broke out, n Africa is a mess, the middle east is a mess huge areas of the planet where increased cooperation and a pm on goal would improve the lives of everyone living there. Which has one are we striving to be part of.

You are also ignoring the fact that eurosceptism is higher in many parts of Europe than it is in the UK

Superb you called it a fact[ so its not your opinion]so lets see your evidence as its not like you just made something up that is factually wrong

Ps What constitutes the term “higher Eurosceptic” ? as we just voted to leave I thin you ay be being a little OTT with that description.

It does and is now over-stepping the mark

its not and if you think it is then report it. Nothing will happen.
Its no worse than what you were saying to him pages ago before you remembered you love him still 😉

I disagreed strongly with nearly every point Jambas and VL made – but hopefully without being personal and rude to him.

Yes THM you are never personal nor rude- TJ can ouch for that or AA or Duckman …oh the irony oh the irony.

It always makes me laugh that the same uber-right wing free-markateers piddle their nickers with furious indignation about ‘surrendering sovereignty’ to a bigger parliament and grouping of countries, but don’t bat an eye-lid at handing the real power over to tax avoiding multinational companies, dodgy media moguls, and blood-stained oligarchs

because they trust them its those with a social conscience they fear and distrust

also unleashed an undercurrent of xenophobia which makes me disappointed/ashamed.

This!

also unleashed an undercurrent of xenophobia which makes me disappointed/ashamed.

Look at the people involved FFS! You expected better from them? You didn’t see it coming? Seriously?

It always makes me laugh that the same uber-right wing free-markateers piddle their nickers with furious indignation about ‘surrendering sovereignty’ to a bigger parliament and grouping of countries, but don’t bat an eye-lid at handing the real power over to tax avoiding multinational companies, dodgy media moguls, and blood-stained oligarchs

They aren’t proper capitalists, that’s why. Genghis Khan is a capitalist hero, the fact that he set about empire building seems to be lost on them when it comes to the EU.

Can/will you please explain to me the idea of sovereignty that has been bandied around by the Leave campaign?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKjTPPcOdQ[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzfgUv3ZKk[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQY2CHx4d3U[/video]

You really need to look at the medium and long term prospects and the risks of being in the EU to answer that question.

Ok but what good is that to someone (say, me) who loses their job in the short term and can’t find another? I’m just trying to make a point here. Sure, if you want long term restructuring, then work on that – but simply pulling the plug like this can’t be the best way to do it, due to the potenital fallout and impact on individual lives.

Re the baiting – I apoligise for appearing personal or causing offence, but what I actually said was ‘that was a heartless thing to say’. Because I believe that he is overlooking the direct human consequences of this vote – hence my comment. I didn’t call HIM heartless or insult him and I was not rude. If I had said ‘you heartless bastard’ then you would have a point but I didn’t, because I don’t believe he is such.

But let’s move on from that, the debate is much too interesting.

You really need to look at the medium and long term prospects

More importantly, these look no better out than in.

We joined the EU on our knees in ’75 and have benefited massively ever since. This is a case of biting the hand that feeds you, rather than leaving an oppressive master.

You are also ignoring the fact that eurosceptism is higher in many parts of Europe than it is in the UK

Very good point. A large number of people who voted to leave were voting against economic hardship that they were led to believe was caused by immigrants (either EU or non EU) or were more directly were voting against the Tories.

We won’t ever know what the true level of euroscepticism was among voters. It was certainly nowhere near 52% of those who voted, never mind those who didn’t.

Turnerguy

Cant watch youtube vids from here, so will see what you have got when I get home.

You really need to look at the medium and long term prospects

How is this possible? Has someone suddenly taken control and told us exactly how we are going to “leave the EU” so we can all work out what’s going to happen?

Last I heard, no-one really had any idea, other than repeating nonsense-isms.

The only person who actually genuinely seemed to want to go through with this quit yesterday.

Ok but what good is that to someone (say, me) who loses their job in the short term and can’t find another?

why can’t you find another – there’s free movement so just pack your bags, leave the family, and go and look for work elsewhere. You might have to retrain but that’s the way it goes.

That’s the way of the EU, and we are currently still in it…

Cant watch youtube vids from here, so will see what you have got when I get home.

no matter what your politics the rees-mogg ones are worth watching for the humor at the least. look for the best of one.

That’s the way of the EULife, and we are currently still in it…

FIFY

How will it be different out of the EU? Jobs will magically appear next to you. The UK could fix some of those problems without leaving the EU.

TMH appreciate the sentiment but let’s just let it go, its more a sign to step back and let people get on with agreeing with each other.

Horatio Farage didn’t quit as an MEP and Tories have made it pretty clear any cross party involvement will focus on MPs so Carswell. Farage can do as much if not ore without being leader of UKIP as he can as leader. I suspect he will actaully do more around Brexit and Euroscpetism in Europe now he has a freer hand and more time. There is also some internal UKIP stuff going on between Carswell and Farage – Farage has dropped Carswell right in it as he can’t avoid the limelight so much now and will have more distractions. Suzanne Evans mess too with her being suspended.

Just when you thought things were scary enough!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/disaster-capitalism-tory-right-brexit-roll-back-state?CMP=fb_gu

How will it be different out of the EU? Jobs will magically appear next to you. The UK could fix some of those problems without leaving the EU.

less competition because we are not flooded by as many EU migrants that want to come here, the government can choose to manage the supply of skilled and unskilled workers as it needs to to satisfy both the neeeds of business and the needs of society.

simply pulling the plug like this can’t be the best way to do it, due to the potenital fallout and impact on individual lives

Jesus wept, have we already left?

I though that there was this process whereby we decided end when to activate article 50, which then led to at least another two year long transition phase till we were out.

Slowest “simply pulling the plug” *ever*

Just when you thought things were scary enough!

but the point is that the UK people can now say ‘enough of this’ and vote them out. As it stands even if they voted a Corbynesque labour in, he can’t renationalise the railways, for example, as it is against the EUs goals.

less competition because we are not flooded by as many EU migrants that want to come here,

If the UK is being flooded by immigrants then why has unemployment been falling steadily?

both the neeeds of business and the needs of society.

What if the needs are not the same, what if there are multiple needs of society? For instance the side that sees immigration as flooding the place and the side that doesn’t

I though that there was this process whereby we decided end when to activate article 50

Whats the STW collectives thoughts on, for one (stated) reason or another, that never actually happening?

For instance the side that sees immigration as flooding the place and the side that doesn’t

Perhaps we could have some sort of’vote’ whereby we decide which side is in the majority?