Well the Eu was dishing out some money on specific projects like the odd art museum or MTB trail centre, but you can’t buy people’s votes. What they want is jobs and prosperity, but some eu rules don’t facilitate that. This notion that the eu can’t do any wrong is looking at it with rose tinted glasses. It does some good and some bad. The Eu has helped drive inequality throughout Europe and that is the one and only root cause of this whole debacle. Issues like immigration have been made the scapegoat and exploited by the leave campaigners because it’s something people can see with their own eyes. But that is not the root cause.

I’m sure you’ll be ok though Jamba. As will I more than likely. Not sure about my children though.

This. I also have a lot of friends who won’t be OK either. The only problem is, nobody has yet been able to explain the amazing benefits leaving the EU will unfold. Meanwhile, story after story emerges of businesses considering moves out of the UK to the EU, and people are being racially abused because the utter cockweasles hurling the abuse think “we voted them out”.

Still I’m sure Gove/Jamby have a plan…

The Eu has helped drive inequality throughout Europe and that is the one and only root cause of this whole debacle.

At no point in my 32 years has the EU been to the political right of any UK government. I agree that in some other countries it has interfered in socially progressive policies. It hasn’t here though, mainly because there hasn’t been a government with socially progressive policies in my lifetime in the UK. If anything, EU regulations have helped temper policies of British governments that essentially sought to increase inequality.

it is the flexibility for workers to move to where they are most needed that allows companies and countries to specialise and grow.

what if they don’t want to move – does this mean you are really a fan of Norman Tebbitt – they should get on their bikes?

So you are favouring big companies needs over the population – the population are forced to continually move in order to remain employed?

Not so good if you are trying to raise a family, keep you kids in some sort of a stable environment.

does this mean you are really a fan of Norman Tebbitt – they should get on their bikes?

You’d think he’d be a hero here 🙂

You’d think he’d be a hero here

some people on this thread seem very two faced, when you look at their support for Corbyn on other threads.

some people on this thread seem very two faced, when you look at their support for Corbyn on other threads.

Tough crowd. 😯

WOW

Austrian Presidential Poll result anulled. There will be a re-run

BBC

Yes, they could have started with immigration. Dear people of the UK. We direct you to stop taking in any more of those people who are making a positive contribution to your economy. This is unfair and distorting the labour markets in the rest of Europe to your advantage. You must now limit the numbers coming in even though the demand for their labour remains strong from your businesses.

#keepjohnnyout

just because we have more (apparent) control over immigration (and benefits) doesn’t mean that anything has to change, just that we have control and are not subserviant to/overridden by the EU.

but you can’t buy people’s votes.

Lol, seriously?

So zokes what makes us immune from the same mechanisms that have had an influence on the rest of Europe? How are we special? The point is this has been an issue no government or the Euro has noticed or been aware of. It’s an unintended consequence. But the powers at be have been so focused on their EU project and pandering to the big business lobby and not listening to the little folk the discontent has crept up over decades and now the right wing nutters have exploited that, blamed it on all the immigrants nicking people’s jobs and there you have it. The far right nutters have been on the rise for 20 yrs nibbling away at people, planting seeds in people’s minds, but governments and the EU has been blind to it. I don’t think for a second any of this was deliberate on the part of the EU or countries governments.

Agree to a point – the EU has a lot of problems and has at times been run in a way with which I do not agree. And yes, its course has been bound to anger the right.

But there’s far more to the EU than that.

Those people who have been forgotten would have stayed forgotten; those communities that have been abandoned would have stayed invisible to all but those who live in them. To insist that they will now suffer most ignores the fact that unless something had changed, they were going to suffer anyway

So is their lot going to improve post brexit? Not looking too rosy now is it?

Mr smith, I guess the theory is, or rather hope, is that when we’re free from Eu restrictions we can increase trade, be more prosperous and spend the proceeds of that prosperity as we see fit without interference from an outside body, and if the people don’t like what’s happening the can vote out the government of the day for one that will take a different tack. That’s the theory anyway.

The million dollar question is how much short term pain do we need to ride before we see the increased prosperity. Ii’d have much rather achieved that through a reformed EU though.

For the next time you are telling us the separatists/far right are on the rise

So is their lot going to improve post brexit? Not looking too rosy now is it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-salford-vote-european-union-latest-updates-polls-a7103521.html

Threats of a recession and economic Armageddon from Downing Street appeared to have little, if any, resonance with the discontented working-class here. For the people who have nothing – who have bore the brunt of the government’s austerity drive over the last six years – they are more than willing to take a leap in the dark for a chance of a better life.

“I would like to say on behalf of Leave we all know that there may be tough times ahead,” said one woman who works as sales assistant at Marks & Spencers. “In my 53 years I’ve had my fair share of them and they are not nice. Tough times make you unable to sleep, cry yourself to sleep, panic about everything – horrible.

But tough times also mean coming out on the other side – which we will – feeling stronger and able to deal with whatever life throws at us. We are a nation of strong hardworking and proud people. Do not call us morons or idiots. As a person who has nearly hit rock bottom but pulled myself up again I’m prepared to do it again for a better society.

Ok junkyard, half the country are obviously all raging racists and we deserve everything we get because one map tells us so. We’re doomed, and the fact that far right groups have gained in popularity over the last 10 to 15 years and the Eu and Euro governments have failed to halt their rise is irrelevant. we’re all going to become poverty striken and retreat back into the caves from where we came. That’s obviously what the ‘facts’ are telling us so let’s just give up then.

EDIT: ^ you really need to calm down there was so many straw men, ad homs, red herrings and shooting of the messenger [ who never said any of that ] that its not worth addressing.
ORIGINAL

the population are forced to continually move in order to remain employed?

DO you think this will cease out of the EU

I am no fan of this but all the complaints will not be addressed by leaving the EU despite that womans optimism and faith.
We wont be stronger we will be weaker, isolated and have more of these fearful sleepless nights than ever before
At least she has accepted that it will be shit in the short to medium term unlike most Leave voters

TBH no report had it anywhere near positive if we get no deal with the EU and that looks pretty much a certainty these days

We won’t be isolated, we trade with countries all over the world. They will want to continue trading with us. Already there are countries queuing up to sign trade deals with us post brexit. New Zealand has offered up their trade negotiators to help us, and in all likelihood we will agree some form of deal with the eu. It won’t be plain ailing. There will be ups and downs but we’re talking about commerse here and commerce knows no emotion or vindictiveness, if it benefits you then it’s all good. I refuse to believe the Euro doesn’t want to have a beneficial arrangement with us after all this. And in the areas ourside of trade and commerce things will be unchanged. We still have a GLOBAL terrorist problem that can only be sorted by working together. And there are many crisis us in the established west have to face in the coming decades. We’re seeing alot of pre negotiation posturing right now. Anyone familiar with negotiating in their Jo can see this, I’m out of the U.K. And the EU at the mo and the mood is a lot more pragmatic and matter of fact. Those outside of the EU will deal with it an continue to deal with us post brexit. The process of brexit is where the uncertainty is.

Junkyard 14% ? Front Nationale have the largest share of the popular vote of any party in France. They will eliminate Hollande/PS from the Presidential election next year and the only way they’ll be kept out is Socialists voting for the UMP/Sarkozy

Austria was 49.9 vs 50.1 and I think post Brexit its going to be a clear win as people there want change

Im with this guy

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfqSFQlDae8[/video]

The problem with all that wobbliscott is the risks and vulnerabilities, and also the practicailities.

If it takes years and years to negotiate the suitably favourable deals that our businesses need to compete, then what happens in the meantime? How many businesses will fold before it’s all sorted out, where a few international contracts would have saved them? How many business will be depressed and not invest in new programmes that would generate new products, where those in the rest of the EU can happily invest? We could be handing a competitive advantage to EU countries for decades to come, just whilst we wait to get these deals (IF we get them).

And in the areas ourside of trade and commerce things will be unchanged.

Well if you ignore science, then you presumably are talking about international cooperation. Sharing data is likely to become a lot harder. A lot of government organisations have rules about keeping their data within the EU. So that’s going to exclude us. If they have data on say movement of people, that we need to analyse for threats, they probably won’t be able to share it with us in the future.

The process of brexit is where the uncertainty is.

Yes, and this could take many many years.

jambalaya – Member
WOW

Austrian Presidential Poll result anulled. There will be a re-run

BBC

Whats even more astonishing is how the Conservative electoral scandal in this country seems to have been all but forgotten about.

Whats even more astonishing is how the Conservative electoral scandal in this country seems to have been all but forgotten about.

If you mean the battle bus Scandal then all three main parties are under police investigation

laughing man is awesome

in all likelihood we will agree some form of deal with the eu. It won’t be plain ailing

It will be very complicated ailing and the EU is clear – these are the rules comply or leave
]they gave us the deal we refused

Its not inconceivable that a fudge can be arrived at but it will mean we stay in the EU- we wont get access to the market without free movement

I know what you think Jamby but the picture shows its hardly a widespread European issue.
Still I do admire your ability to spin it even when presented with the evidence
I dont knwo why i tried to counter your view with facts
Forgive me 😉

I’m still all for staying in, BTW.

I’ve been reading/listening to what David Pannick QC and David Allen Green have been saying on twitter and i’d bet money on Article 50 not being implemented.

Stockholm Syndrome Track World ..

Stockholm Syndrome Track World ..

🙂

Already there are countries queuing up to sign trade deals with us post brexit.

In a way, this might be true, because they will probably get a good deal (to our disadvantage).

We are in the worst possible position to negotiate from. We will have no trade deals and everyone will know it. Most of the developed world is aware of Brexit.

It’s like a game of Poker, where you have a poor hand and everyone can see it.

What Horatio said. Bargains for all at the U.K. distress sale!!

Not being fully party to all that a trade deal entails I am still slightly unsure what all the fuss is about. Apparently the EU does not have a tade agreemnt with the US. Neither does the UK. And yet we seem to be able to export goods to the US. Last time I was there I saw plentry of VWs, BMWs and Mercs.

It certainly seems a bit rocky at the moment but it also feels as though there will be some settling down. We have a long way to go before we get to see what Brexit actually looks like but there are moderate voices in the EU (Merkel for one seems, at least outwardly, sensible and reasonable on having grown up conversations). We may see some companies talk about moving HQs out of Britain etc but I don’t think they have fully thought through what they are doing and why. For a number of them I suspect one of the issues they may face as a result of Brexit is that it may be harder for them to move cash around the European countries to minimize their corporation tax liabilities. I doubt anyone will pull out of the UK beause we are worth too much to them.

Neither does the EU/UK have a deal with China, but that doesn’t stop us being flooded with light sets for a couple of quid.

And yet we seem to be able to export goods to the US. Last time I was there I saw plentry of VWs, BMWs and Mercs.

Last time I was there, I didn’t. I go to the Mid West, not any rich city, and there are very few BMWs and next to no Audis and Mercs. It’s noticeable enough for me to have noticed it. Not many VWs either. Far more Jap cars than anything else non-American.

I’ve asked why there are so few foreign cars, and it’s because they are expensive. Not only are they expensive to buy but the parts are expensive too because of import tariffs. So people buy American cars (which aren’t the same as the Fords etc we get here) which really do deserve their reputation for being worse*. The rubbish cars are propped up by protectionist trade tariffs. Whether or not this is a good thing is arguable, of course.

* for example my Sister in Law’s Chrysler I think had the wheel bearings fail. Turns out the whole driveshaft needed to be replaced, at high cost, because the roller bearing ran directly on the driveshaft instead of on an inner race. As a cost saving measure, one would assume.

That is one thing I have noticed about the US – broadly they have utterly **** cars. 🙂

“Neither does the EU/UK have a deal with China, but that doesn’t stop us being flooded with light sets for a couple of quid. “

Or steel.

The great news is rolling in already

I’ve got a friend who works for the DWP. They’ve spent this week having meetings to plan the expected leap in the unemployment numbers that is presently in the post

We get to wave our little Union Jacks though, so its all good. A Price Worth Paying, as the lady herself would have said….

Kimbers, Laughing man famous for having worked just 7 years out of a possible total of 45. Sounds like a Brussels lover alright.

@soma we don’t have to activate Artcile 50, we could just repeal the acts of Parliament which created our membership and we’d be out immediately. Thats the real nuclear option. Until Lisbon the EU hadn’t even thought about how a country might leave.

@binners we have been getting our deficit under control to prepare for potentially difficult days ahead, even before Brexit vote Osbourne was warning about “aotrm clouds” gathering in Europe. We have a bump in the road to get over but the future is now much brighter.

Jamba – there’s the odd constitutional lawyer that thinks one needs to repeal the parliamentary acts in order to trigger A50. – Google it.

@igm so thats the way out then, lets crack on.

Majority of MPd need to vote against their stated view of Britain’s best interests then