of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends

That isn’t the country’s fault.

And as this whole **** fest continues, Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.

of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends .

I can’t shake the feeling that we’re all just being played by the Tories and Murdoch.

Boris’s pitch, all along, has been to take us and the EU to the brink because he believes he can extract greater concessions on freedom of movement than Dave. Unfortunately I subscribe to the view that the EU is not bluffing (as has been unequivocally stated more than once). So, the only options for our top negotiator (please not Boris) is to either accept freedom of movement or pull us out entirely and go through the whole trade renegotiation in two years (widely regarded as impossible). Or, as John Kerry suggested, backtrack a bit…

He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 5

I am surprised how many people or organisations keep saying things like “decisive victory”… was it, really? Why is there no discussion as to exactly how decisive it is? 48/52 is hardly overwhelming…

Pull us out entirely…both sides lose some, one thing for sure Great Britain would recover quicker…if only people can chill out than panic. Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.

Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.

Why?

Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.

You can’t possibly know that. You can guess, but you can not say this with any kind of certainty. It’s as baseless as the Brexit campaign claims.

Hey, i once predicted that it is not the 29er that would wipe out 26 off the market but the 650b.. and I was laugh at..whose laughing now?

The bicycle manufacturer’s

Some interesting stuff here (a bit after the event) but the BRIEFING PAPER Number 07212, 3 June 2015 is quite clear as to the type of referendum this was, we just need some politicians with some spine …… we are f***ed.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7212#fullreport

And as this whole **** fest continues, Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.

No really!! 😀

CMD has played a v bad hand reasonably well. Quite right to let the BSers take responsibility for invoking A50 and dealing with the aftermath. In the meantime, he has bitten his lip (immigration quip at the EU aside) and declined to play the tempting “told you so” card. He is exiting in failure but at least with dignity and as one of the few statesmen out there.

He still should have avoided panicking with either Scotland or UKIP. Both misjudgements that led to his demise.

Everyone loses here – we are lucky to be out of the Euro and have much more policy and labour market flexibility. Our Achilles heel remains the lack of deleveraging, which makes us very vulnerable to a normalisation of interest rates. Managing the positive impact of a weaker £ on exports versus the negative impact via inflation will take some skill.

Inside the BorisBunker NSFW

As I have said on the other thread, there is no plan Boris and his boys did not think for one minute they would win, the reason Boris is not out front giving us a plan is because he doesn’t have one and is currently doing a “fag packet” calculation without the aid of Mark Carney The Tresuary or anyone else with a Scooby – it’s so ****ing obvious why do you think Gove and IDS have literally disappeared they are all hoping the Corbyn fiasco will keep them out of trouble for a while.
I will support a reasonable plan to get us out of this shit even if it means voting for Boris and his **** wit sidekicks provided a. They support my business and b. Cut massive lumps of money out of the pension and benefits bill to get us going – we are too fat and slow to be outside the pack.
What truly astounds me on this forum from those who supported this is any common sense approach to actually solving this problem – la la la ain’t gonna fix this. Hard focused zero reward graft for the next ten years (oh just done that) is what is required, we need to sell our limited goods and services as hard as we can to anyone who will buy it (oh and chuck your moral ethical high ground out the window it’s sales prevention)

Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.

And that’s the tragedy. The best man is the worst candidate.

Do we post internet links to back up our views on headset angles, wheel sizes or tyre choices ? I for one don’t form my views based on what I read on the internet somewhere. What I like about the internet is I can now listen to whole speeches and make my own mknd up rather than a joirnalists view or summary.

I’ve said numerous times just read every post of mine as it started with In My Opinion

Excise the slight diversion but in response to this

How sweet – Jamba hurls around accusations of anti-Semitism left right and centre but gets all delicate when on the receiving end.

DrJ I tried to explain my logic on that thread but decided to let it lie as the temperature got so elevated. As a matter of fact I emailed (tried to anyway as the address was a bit of a guess) Northwind to apologise to him. As an aside its accepted (I now know) that the use of the term Zionist in a derogatory manner is regarded as anti-semitic even if the term is addressed to a non-Jew as it has been to me on numerous occasions here.

For anybody thinking Brexit won’t happen (or will be delayed for a long time) put your money where your mouth is, you can get 8/1 – which seems incredibly generous odds.

http://www.stanjames.com/UK/802/betting#bo-navigation=175378.2&action=market-group-list

@singletrackmind your link is a bit too discrete so here for all 🙂

[video]https://youtu.be/-a6HNXtdvVQ[/video]

Crispin Blunt was just on Newsnight, representing Team Boris. I’ve never heard such mealy-mouthed, back-pedalling waffle in my life! Basically refusing to deny or confirm that under a Boris premiership, immigration wouldn’t go up instead of down

I think we all know the real answer to that then. There is going to be a lot of pissed off racists when this all pans out!

Crispin, bless his hopelessly dim skull, was on five live yesterday and actually said that the two words you think of when referring to Boris are ‘honesty’ and ‘integrity’

Of course they are crispin. They’re the two words we all immediately when we think of the mop haired buffoon. Definitely not ‘self’ and ‘serving’, or ‘****ing’ and ‘****!’

jambalaya – Member
What I like about the internet is I can now listen to whole speeches and make my own mknd up rather than a joirnalists view or summary

What I like about the internet is that I can very quickly fact check things in speeches rather than taking them as gospel.

French opinion poll – 67% of people think “government by the EU” is bad. The notion that eurosceptism is a UK phenominan is mistaken.

Also I think 52/48 is a close but clear result. I believe with equal funding and equal access to the civil service (so we could actually get more detailed analysis or facts if you like) Leave would have won by a far larger margin.

Do we post internet links to back up our views on headset angles, wheel sizes or tyre choices

Yes we do use facts when discussing a wide array of subjects on here. Providing evidence is an entirely accepted practice in all areas of knowledge and debate. Generally folk go for evidence that supports their view.

use of the term Zionist in a derogatory manner is regarded as anti-semitic

Its really not [and the EU authority you cited did not prove what you claimed ,oh the irony]its completely disputed as it was on that thread as it will be now you have brought it up again despite leaving it.
Its is a weak argument used by folk who wish to stop rightful criticism of Israel by erroneously suggesting everyone who criticises it is a Jew hating racist.

You also said that if a Jew said it was racism then it was which was also disregarded

I am scottish if i say you are a racist towards me it is not magically true just because i said it. i actually need to prove it.

I am not sure what you struggled with in Northwinds e-mail as basically he has written his e-mail address down you could copy it and paste it- I wont cppy it here as i think that would be unfair but its very clearly in his profile assuming you understand what @ means

And that’s the tragedy. The best man is the worst candidate

Is he, though? Or is that just what Blairite labour say?

leave would have won by a far larger margin

If they hadn’t had such a passing, casual, dismissive acquaintance with the truth, they wouldn’t

But hey… we’re in post-truth times now, aren’t we?

For anybody thinking Brexit won’t happen (or will be delayed for a long time) put your money where your mouth is, you can get 8/1 – which seems incredibly generous odds.

That’s for the A50 trigger being anything after 2017 – that’s a long time to wait for your money!

Basically refusing to deny or confirm that under a Boris premiership, immigration wouldn’t go up.

a bit of a loaded question for a nuanced issue,

do you want immigration to go up with an additional 100k potwashers?

do you want immigration to go up with an additional 100k Dr’s and nurses?

arguably the issue at the moment is that we can’t stop the potwashers from 27 countries regardless of the success/ failure/ oversupply of labour of the dishwasher industry and purely on numbers Dr’s and potwashers are seen as equivalent

@binners no one will put a number on anything. During the Labour leadership not one of the candidates would say how many refugees they woukd take Corbyn included, Camerons target became an aspiration rendering him and Remain mortaly wounded on that issue. The next PM cannot say for certain what the immigration rules will look like so how can Boris or anyone answer such a question. The campaign wasn’t about numbers itnwas about control, as I sais Australia has controlled points based immigration and took double the amount of immigrants last year into a country roughly one third of the size. They did so as they decided it was the right thing to do.

CMD has played a v bad hand reasonably well. Quite right to let the BSers take responsibility for invoking A50 and dealing with the aftermath

Not really, he has put himself and the internal tory power fight ahead of the needs of the country. He didn’t need to he could have done what was right for everyone instead he acted selfishly.

@binners no one will put a number on anything. During the Labour leadership not one of the candidates would say how many refugees they woukd take Corbyn included, Camerons target became an aspiration rendering him and Remain mortaly wounded on that issue. The next PM cannot say for certain what the immigration rules will look like so how can Boris or anyone answer such a question. The campaign wasn’t about numbers itnwas about control, as I sais Australia has controlled points based immigration and took double the amount of immigrants last year into a country roughly one third of the size. They did so as they decided it was the right thing to do vote leave lied

It’s not a terribly long time at 8/1, and you’re not going to get them to pay out on the trigger not being pulled based on any date sooner than that (the only other odds I found are on the same effective basis, but not as good value – I initially thought there might be an arb, but the bookie with the less generous odds just has a healthy margin).

I wouldn’t look to Australia as an aspirational ideal. It’s the most racist place I’ve ever been.

The campaign wasn’t about numbers itnwas about control

Your personal favourite claim was the false uncontrolled immigration Are we really meant to think we could end this and yet end up with more arriving rather than a cut to a numbers? You really sure you can convince folk of this? 😯
Is their no pledge Leavers are willing to honour?
At this rate by the end of the month they wont be willing to leave the EU

Yes, bet fair is pretty much 2-1 on everything up to the middle of 2017.

There’s some money to be made there somehow, but I’m never clever enough to work it out.

Apologies if this has been covered, if not, is anybody clever enough to work out whether the peeps that invested in UKIP managed to cover their investment while the market dipped?

At this rate by the end of the month they wont be willing to leave the EU

I am pretty sure they have back-pedalled on that.

They haven’t commented on the dismantling of the good Friday peace agreement yet, so that is still a goer.

I’ve made money on arbs before, so I might be clever enough (I can do the maths anyway), but I can’t find it. I’ll keep having a look as it seems something will probably come up – just wish I’d been braver on Thursday night (when I was successfully predicting the odds moving). Politics is always likely to provide possibilities as it’s not a normal market.

…and just to go wildly OT I found one on the year of the next general election, but I might have to wait 4 years for a 1.5% payout, so not really worth it!

I think I should stop reading comments on newspaper articles. The amount of hate-filled invective and wilful ignorance by Leavers is deeply saddening.

There’s an anti-Brexit protest on Saturday in London. It will be the first demo I’ve been on since an Anti-Nazi League march in 1994. More than 20 years!

I think I should stop reading comments on newspaper articles. The amount of hate-filled invective and wilful ignorance by Leavers is deeply saddening.

People really aren’t that nuts, or nasty. I know where you’re coming from (read any comments on the referendum under stories in the Sunderland Echo, for example). But honestly the small percentage who do pass comment on newspaper articles are not representative of the general population as a whole.

John Key, New Zealand’s Prime Minister, has said that the country will work with Australia in arranging new ties with the UK as it withdraws from the EU. “Where it makes sense we [New Zealand and Australia] will co-operate together,” he said.

Mr Key’s Australian counterpart, Malcolm Turnbull, said that “opportunities and challenges” arose from the UK’s decision to split with the EU. He said: “There are some big issues in terms of the access of Australians and New Zealanders to Europe and indeed to the UK.”

Mr Javid said this week that the UK was “open for business”, and had already received offers to begin negotiation immediately with Australia and South Korea. Canada, India and Mexico are also understood to have contacted the Government with a view to undertaking post-Brexit talks.

The Conservative minister also announced that he and Lord Price would be going on trade missions to China, Hong Kong and Brazil in order to strengthen Britain’s links with other economies.

I am a fan of us starting our informal discussions with a global specifiically non-EU audience. I’d add Japan to that llist too. We have been unable to speak with them before so now is the time, we know what we are going to hear from Brussels so that can wait.

Jamba – that was an article about Oz-NZ co-operation as I recall, not particularly pro- or anti- either UK or EU. Just the antipodeans will need some sort of deal. And they will.

Come on Jamba, I still think you’re better than this. Although I am very close to starting to laugh at the Brexiteers in an I’m all right Jack sort of way.

Corroded – York on Saturday too. First time since the poll tax. Taking the boys as its a good introduction and Brexit limits their dreams far more than mine.

PS – Look Kelvin MacKenzie Of the Sun (the Sun) regrets voting leave and Carswell (UKIP man) says it was a “narrow mandate” – don’t do anything stupid Britain.