So… JLR jobs aren’t leaving the country?

^^^ Remember this?  Wonder where the logic and evidence came from to say something like that …

Boom! There’s the whataboutery card, classy move!

Edited to (hopefully!) clarify I wasn’t replying to you, Kelvin. 🙂

So… JLR jobs are leaving the country then.

So… JLR jobs aren’t leaving the country?

So… JLR jobs are leaving the country then.

The original question below.  😀

Oh hey @chewkw, remember all that discussion about how you thought JLR would never move production as their brand was inherently British and that was a key selling point for them?

Well… my brother-in-law and sister-in-law both work for JLR and have just announced that they have to relocate from Warwickshire to Nitra in Slovakia by December.

So… JLR jobs are leaving the country then?

So… JLR jobs are leaving the country then?

Is this a new question or related to the original question as I don’t want to mix up the answer(s).

I forgot – of course there’ll be no direct, explicit answer.

I forgot – of course there’ll be no direct, explicit answer.

All my previous answers were answering the original question hence I asked you to clarify.

Let’s have a look – mmm, nope, you’ve been asked a simple question and not answered it.

The honest answer is that some jobs are leaving the country, but not all production. No idea why he can’t just say that. Anyway, increased offshoring by many major “UK” brands will only accelerate as we leave the EU, for all the obvious reasons, meaning more jobs lost abroad. Those workers initially moving will do fine I’m sure, and I hope they can see this as a great life experience… but longer term the posts won’t all be done by “ex-pats”… obviously.

Anyway, I recently felt the blood rise when a relative, who’s a Leave cheerleader, said that he didn’t care about car industry jobs that were to be lost as “some of these people are on £50k a year”, as if losing skilled jobs with decent pay was not a negative thing for the UK. He’s now hoping that all this will reduce the wages of those in such jobs that we still have, and further reduce the power of the unions in the process. This crash and burn, and reposition the country, stuff is all now positive for him, and others. Whatever the result of Brexit “it is good” because the belief in Brexit is that strong.

He’s now hoping that all this will reduce the wages of those in such jobs that we still have, and further reduce the power of the unions in the process.

What does he do for a living and what does he earn?

Retired. Loaded. Of course.

Surprisingly you didn’t really answer my point though @chewkw.

In previous discussions you were absolutely adamant that JLR would never move production from the UK as it was a critical part of its brand prestige.

In fact they have cut 1000 jobs and then moved production of the new Disco to Slovakia (with strong rumours of more models to follow).

To be clear, my BiL and SiL are not minimum wage on the factory-floor. They are both in quite senior professional roles. That’s good tax money that may now be going to Slovakia’s treasury instead of ours.

Retired. Loaded. Of course.

You could make a pretty good case for restricting the franchise on votes with big economic consequences to people of working age.

Pensioners have very little “skin in the game” and their decision will cast an economic shadow long after they have shuffled off this mortal coil.

Its a disgrace that the vote hinged on the choices of people who will be the least effected

JLR have good economic and strategic reasons for moving production and clearing space in the UK for other stuff, ironically it will probably be for more of those well paid, highly skilled engineers who are keeping the UK economy going.

Nobody really cares where it’s made these days if the price is right, especially if the competition (BMW/Merc) are made in Germany. the stuff that matters is the real high end stuff like AM etc.

Visited my Leave mum yesterday.

Obviously she started moaning about everything and said that if she was me and my brothers age she would sell up and move abroad.

I told her that we couldn’t any more.

“Why not” she asked. I told her that it was because she voted to stop it she declared that it wasn’t very fair.

So many people had no idea what they were voting for.

You could make a pretty good case for restricting the franchise on votes with big economic consequences to people of working age.

I would go further and make it under 50.  Most people at 50 have already started on the selfish right wing path and they no longer care about the plight of others.

Considering that JLR is making a huge loss for TATA at the moment, moving some production from the UK isn’t surprising. This also only applies to certain models in the range. I do plenty of work in JLR Halewood and there has been significant investment there. The automotive industry in the UK is changing all the time.

FWIW, disenfranchisement is never the right way to go as it has in part been a reason why we’re in this mess. British citizens living in the EU and 16-18 year olds should’ve been given a say too.

I’m 53 and as I age I’m determined not to become a disenfranchised old gammon..

The problem is we have a political class who in the main have never worked outside of London except when canvassing in elections. I met a fair few in my last job and they simply don’t understand what ‘industry’ actually means and the kinds of jobs ordinary people do.

The vote should also be given to EU residents in the UK – if they have come here to live e.g. have family or work here then they should also have a say in the franchise.

Votes for all. A top cut off age for voting is, in my opinion, a downright evil idea. Of course the retired should be allowed to vote. Now, how do you persuade them to vote in the interests of all…? The same way you convince those who don’t need medical treatment to support the NHS… keep battling, talking, campaigning… never give up on the idea that opinions and voting internations can change as the world changes around us all.

I agree, but, changing minds is incredibly difficult.  Once people start to realise that they might be wrong, they often dig in their heels and double-down.

I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

Well, I’ve had my mind changed about a few political issues and certain politicians, and probably changed my voting intention, since the last election. I’d like to change my mind about Brexit, as it’s hugely more likely to occur than not… and keep talking to, and reading pieces written by, Brexit cheerleaders, in the hope they have ideas and arguments from which to pull something that might make me feel at least less negative about our current path… but I find very little… well, actually, a few ideas about what to invest in if you have the means to do so… but that’s about it. I’m open to changing my mind… but I need to read/hear something that’ll help me do that.

I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

Does going from probably a bad idea, to the most monumental **** up possible count?

In principle i am agnostic and if someone actually presented a reason why it might be a good idea fine, So where are the models supporting brexit? Where is the evidence that it will make life better, will improve the UKs infrastructure etc?

The only positive, it has highlighted just how **** many of the UKs politicians are.

I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

I thought that they might have presented some sort of vision for Brexit by now. I acknowledge how I underestimated quite how delusional some of them were.

I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

When I hear a rational argument for it, without them shouting at me “sovereignty” or being governed by an unelected body – let’s face it the civil service runs the country anyway – I may be convinced

I just heard Barnier point out, yet again and with an air of surprise that he was being asked to do it, that the principles of the EU are part of what the EU is and the idea that these should be malleable to accommodate the UK puzzling, to put it politely. It’s the U.K. that wants to leave, not the other way round.

He also pointed out that the discussions were in their last phase. Raab then said they’ll discuss the question of NI with energy and commitment (or some similar empty waffle). Really? NOW you’re going to do that? You’ve got TWO MONTHS to bring it in after eighteen months of nothing?

Oh look, here comes the cliff edge and beyond, the abyssal…

I have learned a hell of a lot about trade agreements and also about how many countries laugh at our politicians. But not met anyone who has changed their mind. They all still expect the same benefits as now in Europe plus extra from all the new deals without any cost…

Hopefully if any good comes out of this it will be that experts will be required in the roles. Having someone with a political science degree as agriculture minister can stop and then people who understand agriculture can be put in that role…

I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

I have changed my opinion on a few things in the last 18 months (abortion being a major one).  And people must generally change their minds as the data backs up the fact that people get more right wing as they age.  Maybe not in 18 months but they are changing over time  And it is probably not down to anyone convincing them of anything, just greed and self protection kicking in.

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>Cougar
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I wonder, for instance, how many of this thread’s contributors have had their minds changed in the last 18 months?

Some vocal brexiteers seem to have realised their arguments are too feeble to post any more.

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Honestly, I’m amenable to chance but I can’t think of a single damn thing I’ve heard since the referendum that would go even one inch towards changing my mind. Not one good argument, not one worthwhile benefit. Leavers occasionally manage to land a telling blow like “it won’t be quite as bad as you thought” and then don’t seem to quite understand why we’re not all delighted to hear we only now have to eat 9/10ths of a human shit which is way better than eating a whole one.

Honestly, I’m amenable to chance but I can’t think of a single damn thing I’ve heard since the referendum that would go even one inch towards changing my mind. Not one good argument, not one worthwhile benefit. Leavers occasionally manage to land a telling blow like “it won’t be quite as bad as you thought” and then don’t seem to quite understand why we’re not all delighted to hear we only now have to eat 9/10ths of a human shit which is way better than eating a whole one.

We’ll I think we’ll be better off financially.  And we’ll be more democratic, less corruption, less multiculturalism…   Lots to look forward to.  Don’t listen to the doom and gloom!

We’ll I think we’ll be better off financially.  And we’ll be more democratic, less corruption, less multiculturalism…   Lots to look forward to.  Don’t listen to the doom and gloom!

What if we don’t want less multiculturalism?

Anyway how will we be better off user with only one post?

Well for a start the EU is a protection racket, food is much cheaper outside the EU.  As are many other things.

Then theres a whole world of opportunity outside the EU, trading on our own terms.

I personally think the UK will be thriving in 10 years time and we’ll all be wondering why we never got out earlier.

We’ll I think we’ll be better off financially.  And we’ll be more democratic, less corruption, less multiculturalism…   Lots to look forward to.  Don’t listen to the doom and gloom!

Bullshit.

Well for a start the EU is a protection racket, food is much cheaper outside the EU.  As are many other things.

Then theres a whole world of opportunity outside the EU, trading on our own terms.

I personally think the UK will be thriving in 10 years time and we’ll all be wondering why we never got out earlier.

Vague bullshit.

Vague bullshit.

Yeah his second post, wonder who it is, guess Jamby is not coming back, could be ninfan trying not to shout leftie too quick

dannyh good debating skills you have there.

The food cheaper outside the EU Thing has been debunked as a Brexiter lie

The Sun made ‘honest mistake’ over inaccurate Brexit tariff calculations which received four IPSO complaints

So what brought you to the forum dickens

Might be ninfan, but it’s a bit lazy for him, nowhere near committed enough.

Might be THM (the ‘reluctant’ Brexiteer, but it’s too pro-leave).

Or obviously it might well be one of the usual suspects just trying a different tack.

You been taking my advice on checking people’s other posts Mike? 😎