OUT OUT OUT. They need us more than we need them, you don’t see Europe buying our cars, milk, farm produce or anything else do you, and don’t worry if your a german motor fan youll still be able to get one (i’d check the emmisions figures first though).

konanige – Member

you don’t see Europe buying our cars, milk, farm produce or anything else do you

Can’t tell if this was a joke but 57.5% of all cars made in the UK are exported to europe, and the EU is the UK’s biggest food export market, with cheese being the 3rd biggest food export.

Yes the figures sound great, but they aren’t british cars they are foreign made here after our motor industry was destroyed, and cheese is 3rd on the list after a bit of export followed by hardly bugger all exports, followed by 6lb of cheese.

they aren’t british cars they are foreign made here

Pillock.

They are made by people in Britain spending their money in Britain and hence contributing to the British economy. The origin of the company makes absolutely no difference.

This kind of reasoning is why democracy is flawed.

Bravo mes amis, NW and mol….well said 😉

Mefty – yes it was a good article and well written too!

konanige – Member

cheese is 3rd on the list after a bit of export followed by hardly bugger all exports, followed by 6lb of cheese.

I was pretty much expecting this comment so I left the figures on screen- dairy exports are worth £1.4bn with 1/3d of that being cheese alone.

Can’t tell if this was a joke

I thought it was an obvious joke till the follow up.

DaRC_L – Member

Some of you do have a very low opinion of British people management to take charge of their own destiny don’t you?

Chewkw did you live in Britain in the 70’s… If not then it’s time to get back under the rock.[/quote]

You mean the persistence Union strikes and demands? 😆

It’s bleeding obvious that British companies/industries in those days were … either/or and/or both of the below …

1. Old style management – poor management skills.
2. Militant Unions – that intended to sabotage due to their communist thinking.

There, you got your formula for the demise of the “glorious” British industry and economy … (the latter still strong due to their ability to mess around with financial numbers … you know you set the rules etc your game …)

BTW did anybody see the latest trade deficit and the Brexit view that we could start trading with the old Commonwealth (who may remember that they were shafted when we voted ‘In’ to the EU) is over-optimistic.

Merica is in deficit yet they seem to prosper?

The UK suffered a record traded goods deficit of £23.2 Billion with the rest of the European Union in the last quarter of 2015, as exports to other EU countries fell 0.5 percent and imports from the EU rose 2.7 percent. I will retire to bed now secure in the knowledge that come the revolution (referendum) the public will do the right thing and all you naysayers will be lined up against the wall and forced to ride shonky Halfords bikes for the rest of your lives.

What incredibly bright point do you think you’ve made?

The UK suffered a record traded goods deficit of £23.2 Billion with the rest of the European Union in the last quarter of 2015, as exports to other EU countries fell 0.5 percent and imports from the EU rose 2.7 percent.

I don’t know if there is a trade deficit, but taking you a your word how will leaving the EU help increase trade with the EU? Imports may have risen due to the relative strength of the pound. It sounds like increased imports from the EU is evidence that we do need ‘them’ as much as ‘they’ need ‘us’.

I don’t know if there is a trade deficit,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35530340

But I agree, not sure how leaving the EU is realistically going to rebalance. We’ll still have to out compete the same competitors to increase exports.

What incredibly bright point do you think you’ve made?

That Halfords bike are shonky apparently. Always looked like they’d put together some sensibly made and priced bikes to me but there you go.

Halfords bikes are shonky thats true but then they are not made in the EU. If we leave the EU maybe we’ll all have to ride bikes made by the same suppliers as Halfords.

Walks in read halfords bit 3 times still has no idea… Time to go back to the pub

How strong is the out vote in the other large economies of Europe?

Whether you are in or out, then you should read this:

BBC News – Goal Differences

Been a load in the (Scottish) news regarding the EU farmers payments.

Seems that we’ve (the Scottish Govt) has spent £180m to pay out (or not) Eur600m in farming subsidies.

I don’t think I trust either of them with MY money…

b r – Member

Been a load in the (Scottish) news regarding the EU farmers payments.

Seems that we’ve (the Scottish Govt) has spent £180m to pay out (or not) Eur600m in farming subsidies.

I don’t think I trust either of them with MY money…

Does that mean Scottish Govt pay subsidy to other EU farmers (in addition to their already low labour or production cost) to have competitive advantage to undercut the Scottish farmers ?

Bear in mind some of the EU nations have very low labour cost and with further subsidies they have so much advantages over UK farmers that UK farmers are doomed even before the subsidies.

good read, thanks dragon

I’m undecided, the one thing I am sure of is there’s 100 different versions of what will happen if we stay or leave, all purporting to be the facts. I’ll probably end up voting to stay due to “better the devil you know”. There’s a lot about being in the EU I don’t like but it’s not bad enough I’d want to take the risk of the UK economy suffering if we left.

FuzzyWuzzy – Member
I’ll probably end up voting to stay due to “better the devil you know”.

IMO the devil knows you better than you know him/her and s/he will always have the upper hand over you regardless. Giving the devil more advantage or power is merely an illusion of self control. 😆

A theory, Cameron will return from Brussells tonight to declare a hard fought but good deal for Britain perhaps with an additional “surprise” concession. He will go to Parliament to announce June 23rd referendum.

@Fuzzy, do you feel you knkw better the Devil that is the European parliament or the one that sits in Westminster ? The reality is whatever the EU looks like today its going to be very different in 5 years time. A Greek debt default could see the end of the euro, that would make the EU look very different. A win for Marine le Penn next year could see huge changes in France’s relationship with Europe and a very different set of priorities. Neither if those are thungs we can influence, how is that devil better known than Westminster

A theory, Cameron will return from Brussells tonight to declare a hard fought but good deal for Britain perhaps with an additional “surprise” concession. He will go to Parliament to announce June 23rd referendum.

That is just stating the obvious

how is that devil better known than Westminster

Well we could leave the EU then vote UKIP and get Farage

Its fantastically unlikely but no more so than your “example”.

What about england votes to leave but Scotland and Wales had voted to leave. Can we really predict the outcome of that for the UK over the medium to long term? It may be that a vote to leave the EU os a vote that breaks the other Uniion.

jambalaya – Member

A theory, Cameron will return from Brussells tonight to declare a hard fought but good deal for Britain

Even if all he brings home is a packet of free biscuits from the plane he’ll still declare it a hard fought but good deal for britain.

OUT as simple as that!

OUT! I/We elect a government and to be told by a bunch a unelected eurocrats or other member state leaders that we cannot do something makes a mockery of British sovereignty!

We elect a government

Wow I thought we elected individual MPs – Did I miss a big vote on the government

When exactly did i get to vote for the Lords or the sovereign?

Our govts [ of all hues] regularly pass laws and do thing the electorate quite clearly opposes and quite often were not in their manifesto and were the opposite of what their manifesto said.

one does not have to go to Brussels to see the people sovereignty ignored.

Wow I thought we elected individual MPs – Did I miss a big vote on the government
When exactly did i get to vote for the Lords or the sovereign?

Our govts [ of all hues] regularly pass laws and do thing the electorate quite clearly opposes and quite often were not in their manifesto and were the opposite of what their manifesto said.

one does not have to go to Brussels to see the people sovereignty ignored. You know what I meant. We place a vote for the party of our choice.

So maybe our government does pass rules the electoral don’t agree with, but at least we are given the chance to cast our vote to another party after the 5 year period.

Please explain to me why you think Poland has the right to argue that the UK cannot change the rule regarding paying child benefit to Polish citizens who work in the UK, but who’s children reside in Poland?

is it because the rules apply to everyone in the EU and the UK signed and agreed to these rules and cannot now change its mind without the consent of all the members of the EU?

Are you suggesting it more democratic that one side can just change its mind on agreed terms and impose them on the others? Imagine if Germany changed its mind on the Euro and tried to make us join. Would you be arguing this is democratic and that we had no right to veto it? I suspect you just use this argument when it suits you.

You can paint this as undemocratic but coming form a nation with an unelected head of state, an unelected chamber, the non separation of the executive from the legislature we are really in no position to lecture other countries on democracy.

To be clear all democracies are flawed ours and the EU. The argument works equally well against either

I am not contesting your points, but without uniform fiscal policy, benefits, minimum wage … the whole EU offering is flawed. It will favor some nations and be a hindrance to others.

“but coming form a nation with an unelected head of state” – unless I am mislead, our head of state plays no part in parliamentary decisions.

Please explain to me why you think Poland has the right to argue that the UK cannot change the rule regarding paying child benefit to Polish citizens who work in the UK, but who’s children reside in Poland?

. The UK (governments formed by those parties you’re such a fan of!) chose to sign up to a club where they agreed to treat other states’ citizens the same as its own. There’s no democratic decefit – If the UK doesn’t like the rules of the club it can simply sod off.

Cam will come back with some sweeteners

All the brexit nonsense is damaging for trade, the EU and UK can’t afford to be in this position whatever the telegraph/ hate mail try and tell us

“but coming form a nation with an unelected head of state” – unless I am mislead, our head of state plays no part in parliamentary decisions.

Well of course not. the legislature is just one part of the state.

. The UK (governments formed by those parties you’re such a fan of!) chose to sign up to a club where they agreed to treat other states’ citizens the same as its own. If the UK doesn’t like the rules of the club it can either convince the other members to change the rules or it can sod off.

And your point is? I don’t need any renegotiation to convince me that we are better off out 🙂

As the whole EU trade argument (yawn), business will carry on as usual. Are we all that naive to think that Europe will say “don’t do business with those naughty Brits?”

Hopefully, my ‘Vote to leave’ leaflets will be with me soon and I can spend a few Saturdays in mu local town convincing the uninformed masses why we should wave goodbye to the EU.

Out. Sick to death of being dictated to….Oh wait….

I’m still an ‘Out’ though.

but coming form a nation with an unelected head of state” – unless I am mislead, our head of state plays no part in parliamentary* decisions.

well apart from the weekly meeting with their prime minister who forms their government and needing their signature to make it law then you are indeed correct

TBH we could debate whether the rile is largely ceremonial or real but one cannot mock the lack of democracy in others whilst we have a hereditary head of state /crown with actual political powers [ however limited or ceremonial- reality is no one knows what wil happen if the crown tries to use the royal prerogative/ refused to sign a law

* FWIW parliament is the House of lords, The crown and the Commons

Only one of the three is elected and you want to lecture the EU ofn democracy. like a wig wearer attacking Trumps hair do.

Out. Sick to death of being dictated to….Oh wait….

I’m still an ‘Out’ though.

Cam will come back with some sweeteners

Maybe but theyr’e all liars & wouldn’t believe a thing he/they promised.

Still ‘out’

And your point is?

well they answered your question – really you did not get it

As the whole EU trade argument (yawn), business will carry on as usual.

HAhahah this is like arguing one can get divorced and the former spouse will still do your washing and make your sarnies for work. Its only ever said by fools – clearly it will be affected if by nothing else the uncertainty alone will have an impact.

Are we all that naive to think that Europe will say “don’t do business with those naughty Brits?”

STraw man what is indisputably true is that every nation in europe, that is in the free trade area or the EU, has to agree to their rules and “pay” for access. Its bizarre that folk think we can tell them to piss of, stop paying them, and they will just go of course have unfettered access to our markets… and you call others naive 😯

Hopefully, my ‘Vote to leave’ leaflets will be with me soon and I can spend a few Saturdays in mu local town convincing the uninformed masses why we should wave goodbye to the EU.

if your arguing and debating is as good as on here i will get some more leaflets for you – you think asking a question getting an answer and then going so what will persuade folk …LOL

EU-SSR … 😆

The Russian tried Soviet Union, well you know the result … they are back to “Russian” now.

The Chinese tried their hands on the same idea to see if they could better the Soviet Union or Russian … guess what … The Chinese are slowly going back to their Chinese roots now.

Now it is the turn of the EU and the British lefties to take the great leap into trying the mass Utopia of equality hallucination feel good factor whatever shite they are injecting smoking taking … 😛

Never learn from history … told you I see you coming and obvious is obvious … 😆