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espresso / coffee making advice

61 posts & 32 voices | Started 1 year ago by lakesrider | Latest reply from vrapan

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Mmmm caffeine

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lakesrider - Member

i want to buy an espresso machine but need help from the STW baristas!

Now i know i can make an espresso with an espresso machine, but how do you make the coffee you get in some restaurants? The type thats not as intense as an espresso, comes in a much larger cup and still has the important crema layer?

Are the cheap machines any good (Delonghi do some starting about 60-70 quid, still 15 bar pressure)? I always have black coffee so not fussed about milk frothing ability.

Lastly, do i have to use espresso coffee in an espresso machine? Just wondering as i also like to have filter / cafetiere coffee and enjoy trying stuff from different areas as they often have different tastes. If i used this in an espresso machine would i still be able to make good coffee with it, or are these beans just meant for use in filter machines / cafetieres?

thanks!

Posted 1 year ago #
flap_jack - Member

I have a Delonghi. It works just as well as my mate's KitchenAid. Doesn't look anything like as nice, and actually I'm on my third in the period he's had the KA. I'm still ahead on cost...

The difference between the coffees labelled as filter etc is the grind. You need a much finer grind for espresso so that you can tamp it good and solid. Filter / cafetiere grind is so coarse that the water goes straight through. I always grind my own, and do it fresh.

IMO it's worth spending a lot on a proper grinder more than on the machine - 15 bar is 15 bar whether the machine costs £60 or £600, but a cheap grinder will wreck the coffee before it gets near the machine. The Kitchen Aid Grinder is worth the money.

Finally, I've yet to find a decent coffee at a supermarket, yet the cheap and cheerful beans at Costco makes a really good cup for everyday drinking.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

I've yet to find a decent coffee at a supermarket

Lavazza Red is as good as any thing else.

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

do i have to use espresso coffee in an espresso machine?

Grasshopper, your journey will be long and hard, if starting from this point.

Posted 1 year ago #
alexxx - Member

I aint going to read all this sorry but here is my great advice

£50 on a 2nd hand 15 bar machine or one in the sale with manual control of the amount of water it puts into the beans

try and get a burr grinder if you can afford it but its likely another £50 minimum but this is the best thing you can do on a budget

dont get an electric grinder

and to answer your coffee question its all the same the difference is how fine you grind it, also effects the crema

dont try to squeeze too much water past the beans or it goes sour and you will have white speckles in the crema

das is all

Posted 1 year ago #
damo2576 - Member

Lavazza Red is as good as any thing else.

Try grinding Monmouth beans.

Posted 1 year ago #
damo2576 - Member

And don't start researching how to make the god shot. Its a long obsessional road. I've been there. And never made the god shot.

Basically as others have said, critical variables are temp, pressure, tamp, grind, pour and beans.

In my experience beans make the biggest difference, perhaps obviously perhaps not. Then the grind.

FWIW I have the Kitchen Aid machine and Grinder - is expensive but a decent machine. KA customer service is second to none - I've had 3 machines break (bad!) but all have been replaced FOC and next day.

Posted 1 year ago #
flap_jack - Member

Lavazza Red ?!?!? That is obviously a troll, and I've bitten. Lavazza Red is a blend FFS, and uses robusta ! You obviously have no taste buds whatsoever.

Also, a hand burr grinder makes a good grind but takes forever...

Posted 1 year ago #
alexxx - Member

cheap hand burrs are temperamental tho, i wouldnt recommend
good shout on the troll

Posted 1 year ago #
TooTall - Member

Gaggia Classic from Fleabay, repairable, tough, does a great coffee. Don't use it exclusively if you want to explore coffee. Filter coffee gets something different out of different beans so use that too.

Find a local roaster and experiment - I never met an Italian who used Lavazza when I lived there.

Posted 1 year ago #
damo2576 - Member

Don't use it exclusively if you want to explore coffee. Filter coffee gets something different out of different beans so use that too.

This is true. Try cold press too.

Posted 1 year ago #
vrapan - Member

Some decent advice some rubbish.

First and foremost, buy good freshly roasted beans, don't bother with pre-ground heck don't bother with most of supermarket whole beans either as you have no clue how long they are on the shelves. Plenty of very reasonably priced roasters around that will mail you great coffee.

Second dont buy an espresso machine before you buy a grinder. 100£ for a decent burr one and you are set for.

Look into Gaggia Classic or Gaggia Baby, I think they are very similar and quite reasonably priced. If you can spend more spend it on a better grinder.

Good luck...

Posted 1 year ago #
flap_jack - Member

IMO a cafetiere is better than a filter. I use a cafetiere at work, espresso at home. If I use one exclusively I miss the other. The coffee maker, that is.
Much more caffeine out of the cafetiere...

Posted 1 year ago #
matthewjb - Member

Get a decent supply of beans. I use Hasbean. Beans are generally delivered within 2 days of roasting.

A secondhand Gaggia classic is a good recommendation. How about this one? I had one for a while.

And get a decent grinder.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

You obviously have no taste buds whatsoever.

You obviously have little understanding of what an authentic Italian espresso is about.

Posted 1 year ago #
TooTall - Member

You obviously have little understanding of what an authentic Italian espresso is about.

Not pre-ground Lavazza that's for sure!

That'll put hairs on your chest - roasted in Pozzuoli on the edge of Naples - what the locals use.

Posted 1 year ago #
iDave - Member

roasted in Pozzuoli on the edge of Naples

which has sweet FA to do with anything

Posted 1 year ago #
mollyiom - Member

I have a gaggia classic in new condition that i would sell for a reasonable offer + postage.

Posted 1 year ago #
freddyg - Member

alexxx - Member
I aint going to read all this sorry but here is my great advice

Very confident!

dont get an electric grinder

Really, prefer a steam or nuclear powered one?

and to answer your coffee question its all the same

..... so all beans are equal?

Sorry, it's bean (sic) a long day and I'm tired and a little drunk / cantankerous. Hic.

Posted 1 year ago #
bawbag - Member

fresh beans are the key - http://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/ are good. I use a Bialetti stove top and love it.

Posted 1 year ago #
TooTall - Member

which has sweet FA to do with anything

It does actually - an example of Italians not using Lavazza. Also, that local roasted beans are usually a better option - provided the roaster is up to scratch. Why not add to the discourse rather than just throwing poo like an angry wee monkey?

Posted 1 year ago #
pedalhead - Member

Gaggia Classic and beans from hasbean.co.uk here. All good.

Posted 1 year ago #
damo2576 - Member

You obviously have little understanding of what an authentic Italian espresso is about.

Lavazza Red is a ground blend. Using cheap/nasty Robusta beans. Not sure what an authentic Italian espresso is about but if it was meant to be good it would be with freshly roasted and ground Arabica surely with maybe a littel Robusta for crema?

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

Lavazza Red is a ground blend

You can buy as beans or pre-ground. Maybe my pallet just isn't refined enough for nicher end of the market. Good luck with it though, I'm sure the extra expense and effort is worth it if it's your thing.

Posted 1 year ago #
iDave - Member

Italy is a big country, so beans roasted in Naples means bugger all in Livigno - was my point.

Posted 1 year ago #
Hairychested - Member

I'd buy a Gaggia Classic if I could but have bought a stove espresso maker. Good enough to replace blood with coffee.
The coffee you asked about, pour some hot water into a cup, say 100ml of it, and then and only then set your espresso onto it. Don't do the opposite as it'll burn the crema.
For a starter I'd advise two different beans/blends, you need to see the difference. I have two Lavazza bags - red and blue. I prefer the red from a cafeteri e whilst the blue is great for the espresso maker. Horses for courses, as they say.
BTW You won't make a perfect coffee anyway, there'll always be somebody "better" than you here.

Posted 1 year ago #
montylikesbeer - Member

its all about the beans:

beans

bean advise

a Gaggia classic from here

classic

Posted 1 year ago #
flap_jack - Member

"I'm sure the extra expense and effort is worth it if it's your thing."

It is and it is.

Maybe some of us are supertasters, we're all different.

Stove-tops about 3-4 bar I believe. That's why they're called mocha, i.e. it's a mock-espresso. However, much better than nothing when camping.

Posted 1 year ago #
MrSmith - Member

I'm sure the extra expense and effort is worth it if it's your thing.

certainly is
gaggia classic and coffee from monmouth or square mile.
an ascaso grinder to be purchased soon.

i don't understand why people have a good machine at home but use overpriced coffee that's possibly months old like illy or lavazza when you can buy coffee/beans for the same price (or less) that was roasted in small batches by hand on days before.

Posted 1 year ago #
Bez - Member

Ignoring the beans - just experiment and drink what you prefer, even if someone on the Internet thinks you're a peasant for it - I have the cheap de Longhi (the Caffe Treviso), it works ok although I find a good thick crema still just about eludes me. Keep an eye on prices, you can often find it for £40 which makes it a bargain - I'm sure a Gaggia is better but the diminishing returns must kick in pretty hard.

However, a stovetop pot will do just as well. A Bialetti is probably as much as the Treviso, but a Chinese copy will set you back £10-15. It takes up less space in the kitchen so is ideal for occasional use and still makes great-tasting coffee, but you won't get a crema.

If you're grinding your own beans then a blade grinder is no good unless you want piss-weak espresso, you'll need a burr grinder.

If you don't want to grind every time you have a coffee, you can stick grounds in the freezer in a sealed pot - they'll be fine for a week at least IME.

The long coffee you're asking about is an Americano - espresso with added hot water.

Posted 1 year ago #
montylikesbeer - Member

2nd mr smith , small artisan roasters are often cheaper an streets ahead in terms of quality

Posted 1 year ago #
mastiles_fanylion - Member

I'm gonna make a coffee...

Posted 1 year ago #
iDave - Member

good idea MF...

Posted 1 year ago #
MrSmith - Member

However, a stovetop pot will do just as well.

it works ok although I find a good thick crema still just about eludes me

this is why i was happy to pay fro a decent home espresso machine.
if you like perfect coffee why compromise.

a s/h gaggia is only £150. i have a babyD that i only paid £50 for as it was missing a drip tray cover and the lid to the water tank, it makes perfect espresso. the group head/boiler are the same as a classic but i wanted a stainless body not plastic.

Posted 1 year ago #
Hairychested - Member

The SS stove jobbie can be had from Whittard for £24 IIRC. I'll be buying one tomorrow or on Tuesday. The cheaper copies corrode, mine did after only 7 weeks.

Posted 1 year ago #