Another set tested on PinkBike, another set broken.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/santa-cruz-nomad-review-2014.html

“After hitting a small stepdown and landing into a rooty section of trail, the rim’s sidewall cracked the whole way through with a loud ‘snap’ and a belch of Stan’s fluid. The landing itself wasn’t the smoothest, but it also wasn’t hard enough that we would have even expected a flat tire, let alone a cracked rim. We spoke to ENVE, and they said they had determined that the stiffness of the spokes, DT Swiss Competitions, was causing more stress than the rim could handle under certain situations. We sent the wheels back to ENVE’s Utah manufacturing facility, and they were returned laced up with DT Swiss’s bladed Aerolite spokes..”

tis another reason (next to cost) I wont go Carbon..

£750 for a rim is just downright pathetic and makes it a pro-only item, or for those with so much money they dont care about spending huge amounts for such a marginal gain.

Carbon i agree with, a wheelset that costs as much as a decent fully built bike is insane.

If they last forever then it would be acceptable, as they seem to last for a shorter period than a decent alloy rim they are a joke.

They come with baby blue or magenta pink stickers though so i suppose all can be forgiven.

Just get some stickers.

Did I read that you cannot tighten spoke without removing the tires, sealant, strips etc?

They are pretty though eh?

I agree, Enve rims are expensive. My team have been using carbon 29er rims to race on all season. Price ~£150 per rim. My experience so far has been nothing but positive. They have built up into a stiff, lightweight set of wheels that have stood up to all the abuse hurled at them. Never had to true them (if i did no need to take the tyre off) and they certainly ride better than last years Crest rims.

munkyboy – Member

Did I read that you cannot tighten spoke without removing the tires, sealant, strips etc?

I think it’s a bit like shim under bucket cams- on the one hand, it’s a bastard to adjust, on the other hand you don’t plan on adjusting them much.

There are some precious people on there, who can’t seem to accept that they might not be the perfect wheelset some seem to think they are.

Not being able to adjust them without stripping the wheel bare is silly too.

And as usual the ones gobbing off about Enve or any other carbon rim being blah blah blah have never ridden them. And fair enough. If you’re not good enough to get the most out of them they are over priced.

How do you get the most out of them? They are just a set of wheels. They won’t make you go any faster.

Are pinkbike good enough to get the most out of them, I’m confused by your logic?

I have carbon wheels* I’m certain I’m not good enough to get the most out of them but they are very stiff accelerate really well and make climbing easier

* they are the ‘cheap’ light bicycle ones

Either way I imho youd be silly to spend enve money on a set of wheels

I have some light bike ones. I have ridden them for 5 days at the bike park. They still look brand new. I intend to run them in the alps in August as well.

Things break

We spoke to ENVE, and they said they had determined that the stiffness of the spokes, DT Swiss Competitions, was causing more stress than the rim could handle under certain situations

so they are brittle then – carbon wheels
just don’t seem suited to mountain biking.

set on the road bike – well 2, just switched 45 tubulars for 65 clinchers
set on the mtb – well 2 sets, switched 26″ for 29″ – running XC rear, AM front

built with Sapim XC-Ray/DT Aerospoke

done 3000km on the road bike and 1000km on the mtn bike this year

never had to true them,

stuff however, will sometimes break if you hit it hard enough

£750 for a rim is just downright pathetic and makes it a pro-only item, or for those with so much money they dont care about spending huge amounts for such a marginal gain.

and your point? They make something out of your spending comfort zone that you are not interested in?

How do you get the most out of them? They are just a set of wheels. They won’t make you go any faster.

Well they do actually, that’s sort of the point of any development in kit. You might as well say that suspension versus a hard tail doesn’t make you go faster. Clearly it does.

The benefits of very stiff carbon wheels can be felt readily but, in my view, you have to be really pushing it to feel the difference and thus to benefit from it. Whenever I’ve been coming back from injury and taking it steady, I’ve always felt the wheels never really make much difference, but as soon as I was back up to full speed and hitting turns hard, that was when I could feel the wheels really making a difference.

A mate has been borrowing them and has been so impressed he’s now bought them off me (as I’ve effectively mothballed my mountain bike for the foreseeable future). He says the same thing; they help the bike track really well, they improve the accuracy of your line and stay right where you want them through chatter.

Anyway apart from anything else why does anybody really care what other people spend their money on? Why be so judgemental and why, oh why, try to define anyone else’s experience of something.

I can feel the benefits. You can’t. Get over it.

I think the point is getee you could buy another much much cheaper brand of carbon wheels and get exactly the same benefits (and the same increased risk of catastrophic failure?)
All without having to patronise the enve-les unskilled paupers on here 😉

Maybe. Oh and yes I was being deliberately patronising because that is what other people were doing. It was an unsubtle point.

Well they do actually, that’s sort of the point of any development in kit. You might as well say that suspension versus a hard tail doesn’t make you go faster. Clearly it does.

The benefits of very stiff carbon wheels can be felt readily but, in my view, you have to be really pushing it to feel the difference and thus to benefit from it. Whenever I’ve been coming back from injury and taking it steady, I’ve always felt the wheels never really make much difference, but as soon as I was back up to full speed and hitting turns hard, that was when I could feel the wheels really making a difference.

A mate has been borrowing them and has been so impressed he’s now bought them off me (as I’ve effectively mothballed my mountain bike for the foreseeable future). He says the same thing; they help the bike track really well, they improve the accuracy of your line and stay right where you want them through chatter.

Really? How much faster? Could you quantify it?

That’s a serious case of Enve coolaid being thrown down, with a large side order of patronising sauce.

I’ve used, and broken a set of Enve’s, and other carbon wheels. I didn’t go any faster, or slower with them. I noticed the extra stiffness but still question whether that’s a good thing, it has both positives, and negatives.

People can spend their money on whatever they like, has anyone ever suggested otherwise? Sounds like you’re pushing some purchase justification onto us though.

I can’t feel the benefits, apparently you can. Get over it.

I did timed tests and found it made about 10% difference. The ‘feel good factor’ though was about 50%.

I can’t speak for carbon stiffness- mine went into a wheelset that was never going to be stiff, low spoke count and skinny spokes, the other wheels are still getting built. But weight, I don’t understand how anyone can not notice a weight reduction in wheels tbh. Whether it’s carbon or lightweight alu or whatever.

No offence Geetee but are you not skeptical of your timed tests given the feelgood factor? If a bike feels good and fast you’re likely to push it harder… Or are you happy that’s not the case?

I did timed tests and found it made about 10% difference. The ‘feel good factor’ though was about 50%.

sorry are you saying that enve rims make you go 10% faster than on the same bike running a standard set of rims (ie crests)?

because i find that very hard to beleive

10%? Really? That’s a huge difference to quantify just to a set of carbon wheels.

If I consistently went 10% faster I would win nearly every single race I have entered, in the last 12 months! Some of those podiums must have been down to the wheels then….

😉

The ‘feel good factor’ though was about 50%

If that’s what you’re after according to this place you should be on a fatbike

Mavic EN321 or Enve rims.
Does anyone actually care as long as you’re having fun?

yes – carbonz is everything

No offence Geetee but are you not skeptical of your timed tests given the feelgood factor? If a bike feels good and fast you’re likely to push it harder… Or are you happy that’s not the case?

Am I skeptical? Yes and no; I think you’re assessment is spot on; the bike felt so much better I had more confidence to push.

If that’s what you’re after according to this place you should be on a fatbike

LOL yes I can quite believe it. Ironically though I am now on a road bike and incredibly happy with it though that probably has as much to do with being four stone lighter and quite a bit better able to actually, you know, ride up hill!

Why don’t Mavic make carbon MTB wheels? They do loads of road ones and as the world’s leading wheel company could certainly make more money if they did.

But I’m sure I read in Dirt that they don’t see it as a suitable material.

Just saying.

What makes them the world’s leading wheel company? Perhaps previously, but IMO they’re trading significantly on heritage these days, not a hugely innovative or bold company.

They’ve not long progressed from alu rims with a carbon fairing either.

chakaping – Member

Why don’t Mavic make carbon MTB wheels?

Because they can sell aluminium ones for £700 using tech and designs they’ve had for years? Their most exciting product innovation recently was painting some old crossmaxes yellow, and people got trampled in the rush to the shops…

What makes them the world’s leading wheel company? Perhaps previously, but IMO they’re trading significantly on heritage these days, not a hugely innovative or bold company.

I meant in terms of money and brand recognition really, wouldn’t like to say who is leading the way on the tech side (maybe not Enve though, ho ho).

There’s a bit of truth to what you say, but I like the way Mavic are willing to buck the trends and stick with what they believe in.

Internet warriors get all angry because their rims are “too narrow” or they have special spokes, but they work really well and the Crossmax SX is a really **** tough wheel at a great weight.

Because they can sell aluminium ones for £700 using tech and designs they’ve had for years? Their most exciting product innovation recently was painting some old crossmaxes yellow, and people got trampled in the rush to the shops…

Ahem, see “internet warriors” comment above.

If I spent ridiculous money on a set of wheels, I’d try to justify it too!

I have a set of Enves. I also have a set of reynolds AM carbon rims, and a set of Crossmax ST’s, all in 29 inch.

Are the Enves any better than the Reynolds? Yes – much. stiffer, lighter, stronger. Are they better than the Mavic’s? Marginally, they’re wider so give the tyre a better profile and are a bit lighter.

For me, having a decent set of stiff wheels on a 29er makes the bike. I’ve ridden one with standard OEM rubbish and they were just that – rubbish. Made the handling vague, felt sluggish and nasty to ride. Do you need to spend Enve money to stop this happening? No, of course not. A set of Flows would probably do almost as good a job.

I got the Enve’s because they look cool and at the time there wasn’t really anything that compared. I can’t comment on the LB rims as I’ve not ridden a set but I’m sure they’re very good. I think hating a rim because its expensive is a bit of a joke – you don’t have to buy them, there are alternatives.

You spend your money, you takes your choice. For the record I don’t think they are perfect but I’ve found them to be very good. The reynolds on the other hand were similar money and are rubbish. And this is my second set (I’ve had them in 26inch too) and neither were great. Bought as complete wheelsets, these have the i9 hubs which I’ve also found to be bobbins – bearing life is laughable.

Cost aside, a set of Enve’s on Kings is in (my opinion) the optimum wheelset. Look good, light enough, strong and stiff.

What part of my post isn’t true, though, chakaping? Mavic have little reason to innovate. If they can sell an old product for a top price, with you can assume higher profit margins than most due to huge product lifecycles, why would they get into an unfamiliar technology and all that entails?

They don’t need any other reason to stay out of carbon. And this isn’t a carbon specific thing, you can see their pragmatic approach to development in all their products- my 819s are from 2007, there’s no question they could improve that rim if they had any desire to. It’s just logical not to innovate, for them.

I’m sure they are good wheels, but in reality the percentage improvement will be tiny, way way less that 10%. Otherwise as hobnob states above they’d be the difference between winning a race and being middle of the pack.

I can’t speak for carbon stiffness- mine went into a wheelset that was never going to be stiff, low spoke count and skinny spokes, the other wheels are still getting built.

You say that, but I went from 26″ wheels with 32 Revolution spokes and lightweight alu rims to 29″ wheels with 32 Revolutions and light carbon rims and they’re day and night in difference, I was really impressed. Dunno if that translates to real world speed, but they feel far better.

Definitely agree on Mavic though!

njee20 – Member

I went from 26″ wheels with 32 Revolution spokes and lightweight alu rims to 29″ wheels with 32 Revolutions and light carbon rims and they’re day and night in difference, I was really impressed. Dunno if that translates to real world speed, but they feel far better.

So your 29er wheels felt different to the 26ers?

geetee1972 – Member
How do you get the most out of them? They are just a set of wheels. They won’t make you go any faster.
Well they do actually, that’s sort of the point of any development in kit

So it’s not about sales and profits?

geetee1972 – Member
I did timed tests and found it made about 10% difference. The ‘feel good factor’ though was about 50%.

Come on! I just need to ride at my limit, stick ENVEs on, and I’m 10% faster and X points up the results?

Listen to yourself…

So your 29er wheels felt different to the 26ers?

🙄 There’s a context there – my lightweight 26″ alu wheels were flexy (and you could see/feel it), my larger carbon wheels, with the same spokes are noticeably stiffer. I’m not saying they’re faster, becuase it’s a daft comparison, but the stiffness difference is hugely noticeable, despite still using lightweight spokes.

What part of my post isn’t true, though, chakaping? Mavic have little reason to innovate.

What would you like to see them doing?

Their newest MTB wheelset has narrower rims on the 29er version to keep the weight down and because they don’t think you need such a wide tyre as on smaller wheels (bigger contact patch).

This is something I’d noticed on my 29er – more grip/drag for the same volume tyre on a 26er – so that’s what I think is smart innovation rather than making 50mm wide rims out of tinfoil.