As the title, any tips to help turn 50/60km rides into 100km rides?

I’ve got a few long events planned for the summer, and need to work on riding further/longer more than anything else.

I don’t feel overly tired out at 50km, and feel like I could keep going (when I’ve fuelled myself properly), but my arse and shoulders are usually done for by 5 hours of riding…

Any tips from the masters would be appreciated.

Ta,
Steve.

Assos.
if you are not racing a less racey set up.
Carbon bars and seat post(if using a hard tail)
ditch the lock on for proper grips. good mitts (road, spesh BG)

Ride more to get stronger. I found that using my road bike on the turbo through winter kept me flexible enough to avoid problems when I got back on the road in spring. With pilates I’ve got flexible enough to drop my stem a bit further without discomfort.

Or consider somthing else. Pilates has helped me with position and back ache on longer rides. Never liked gyms so things liek weights don’t happen. Pressups work some of the same muscles you use in your upper body though.

Play with your position to see if you can improve things. Saddle forward or back, up or down – bars the same.

Play with fork setup to see if that helps (if the terrain is easy then run forks a little softer).

TTFU

If you are carying things on your back do you need to? Could some of it go in a saddle bag? Could some of that water be left behind (work out what you drink) or put a bottle on the bike.

Get some good lycra shorts (I like DHB Aeron Pro). Use chamois creme, ditch the baggies for longer rides.

Look at how you ride. Make sure you alternate between big gear pushing, spinning, seated riding and standing to aleviate pressure.

Thanks for the tips.

Already on the Assos and lycra, think a bit of work on my shoulders (push ups) would help.

I’ve noticed my bike is considerably less comfy since I put the dropper on… So maybe that’s a good thing to change for longer rides?

Having never met you the first point may sound a bit rude.

1. If you can get a bit lighter, get lighter. This will come with more riding, but if you can cut down on pointless weight (read fat) you’ll have a better chance of feeling a bit fresher on longer rides. If you’re already a racing whippit, feel free to ignore this.

2. Bum wise – get some decent shorts that fit you. FWIW, I don’t fit Assos that well, so I don’t use them Castelli – yes, Sportful – yes, Endura – MTR series yes, otherwise no. Also, look at chamois cream, it does help.

3. Upper body strength – was an issue for me having been a CX racer and moved to MTB, I had fecky arms, I still do but less so. My triceps would be ruined after about 10hrs and I’d have to pull out of races. The trick was simple – pick shit up, put it down again in an appropriate manner. Not necessarily weights – your body is a weight too, so I climb more, do some body weigh exercises, occasionally lift free weights.

4. Finally, ride more yes – but not for the strength side of it. To get efficient is the key, with fuelling, but also how you move your body and bike after 6+hours in the saddle. When you ride long and get tired you get sloppy, this is due to being inefficient, work on it by riding tired. Ride late of an evening, get up early, ride again. Repeat. Your body will adapt. Stress, recover, adapt, restress, etc… simples.

5. Go new places – if you keep doing laps of the same trail, or do the same long rides, you’ll get bored and sack it in as you’ll notice being tired faster. I get around this by buying one way train tickets so I have ride home…it doesn’t always work out. But that’s why it’s fun.

Either way, welcome to the world of endurance riding. It’s stupid. Accept it now.

The trick was simple – pick shit up, put it down again in an appropriate manner.

I’m going to use that. 😀

A carbon seatpost designed to flex fore and aft a bit makes a world of difference to the rear end of my old carbon Scott Scale, it’s like trying to ride a cactus usually! Having said that though a well fitting saddle fixes almost all ills, it might be worth trying out some others if you find you get a sore arse after a while. I use the Specialized Phenom, but saddle choice is very personal. Like speshpaul said, have a look at some better grips, ESI’s silicon ones are the most comfy I’ve ever used, although they can be a bit tear prone if you ride through too much shrubbery!

Cheers Greg,

Feel free to be rude I do deserve it I can assure you! Weight is my enemy at the moment, I’m currently, well, lets say very heavy! but 1 and 1/4 stone lighter than in December – the weight is dropping off now I commute every day and put in 5/6 hour rides at the weekend. If I can drop a few more stone by summer, I’ll be happy.

I do need some better shorts, currently on Decathlon top of the range stuff, that doesn’t fit me as well as good DHB stuff (my last pair of dhb fell to bits last year!). By Assos I meant the cream, don’t think I’d fit in any of their shorts! I usually cover the entire chamois in Vaseline too, which has helped reduced sores.

I’ve been backing off a bit when tired as I don’t want to over do it, but you point makes sense… riding tired will make you better at, riding tired!

Cheers for the other tips too. All taken on board.

Have a look at StartCycles.co.uk and see fi any of their Scott bib shorts fit you. Tremendous VFM.

Don’t use Vaseline. It clogs up the pores on your arse. You want to have air getting to them – it’ll keep them fresher, and you’ll get less saddle sores in the future. This is from personal experience.

The last thing you want down there is a vapour barrier of any form.

Ride bikes – eat less cake/beer/processed crap.

wanmankylung
The trick was simple – pick shit up, put it down again in an appropriate manner.
I’m going to use that.

It’s already stolen from Mark Twight – as are most of my views on the world. Twitching, possibly the best piece of advice I ever read.

Generally good advice above but I’m surprised the no one has mentioned core stability and flexibility. If you don’t have that (and most cyclists don’t unless they specifically work on it) during long events, little niggles caused by inappropriate muscles doing work they shouldn’t be to support your position will start to become really uncomfortable to the point of really slowing you down. It may sound silly but Yoga is a really good way to improve this aspect or otherwise, just some exercise as part of your normal training (eg before and or after).

Also worth mentioning <whisper> intervals – whilst I’m a firm believer in doing near a distance just to break a psychological barrier, you might find you get quicker fitness and weight loss gains in less time by mixing in a few short high intensity sessions. Running works for me .. not directly transferrable and not the specificity someone proper fit might need, but it helps me.

Generally good advice above but I’m surprised the no one has mentioned core stability and flexibility

I think I mentioned flexibility up there. Yoga (or pilates as I do/said) will also help you understand how your body is moving. I am more aware of my body position now and can tell when thigs aren’t right. Core stregth does help. If you support yourself with your arms for a long time they are going to hurt. Using more of your body will spread the load.

Core strength is a real benefit for endurance.

Check out some exercises here Endurance Corner

Picking shit up is good too. Got any gardening or landscaping projects in mind?

I’ve not tried pilates, but lots swear by it.

Core work has helped me stay relatively injury free for a while, whereas I was always crocked a few years ago.

Oh, and chamois cream, not vaseline. I did a few century road rides last summer and am a convert.

Do more rides, toughens bottom. You will be surprised at the change once you do 4 rides a week. I just use bib shorts, ditch the outer MTB shorts as they can crease and if its wet they hold water incresing bottom soreness (MTB shorts are a fashion item) I dont use cream during training I save it for event 😉 Clearly in the winter you may be better with water proof shorts or I use Endura single track trousers for training.

Gym ideal is a must, core, back, arms etc etc squats is your leg strength exercise. Basic exercise to increase strenght you need to pushing weights 70 to 80% of your max 6 or 8 reps X 8 or 6 sets works for me eg 6 reps X 8 sets or 8 reps X 6 reps all = 48 Gym is your recovery session you do between rides on your rest days. Should be at least two days apart.

Bike, try changin your position to more up right, add a spacer to stem, bring saddle forward a tad. Also try lowering the saddle nose for distance work.

Do back to back rides; 40km one day then 40km next day. Increase distances back to back until you get to @ 130 140km back to back then try out some near distance rides. Keep back to back training up, its tough but if you keep within your comfort zone you will be ok. Will improve stamina, endurance and toughen bottom. The idea is too keep within your comfort zone.

Rest is important when your doing back to back. Bed early, eat well. If your over weight then eat sensibly the training will soon burn it off.
Food and water. Train with the same food you will race on. Keep well hydrated. I make own power bars and train on water only. Will add a bit of electrolyte for multi day races.

What kind of bike are you riding? Or did I miss that bit?

Get used to dealing with the pain.

Time on the bike helps, and you do adapt. Equally, some days you just end up uncomfortable. Maybe a saddle sore that is just in the wrong place. Deal with it, take painkillers, MTFU and keep going. If you get a real bad one, sometimes just sitting through the pain until it bursts is all you can do. The bursting may at least relieve the pressure and give you a few more hours of relative comfort.

Once you get past the total exhaustion point you kind of stop feeling things in the same way anyway. I have lost my big toe nail four times in the last year (road endurance work not MTB admittedly). Never notice how bad it is rubbing when I am riding, only when I stop and take my shoes off.

When you are shattered you may find you start pedal mashing. Change down a gear, breathe and make a deliberate conscious effort to relax everything. It’s amazing how much energy is wasted being tense because of tiredness and on a MTB it’s even worse as its just energy wasted when it’s soaked up by the suspension.

An article on core strength on UKC – http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7059

need to work on riding further/longer more than anything else.

maybe. these two articles suggest that your short power has much more to do with endurance than long steady rides. I think i agree.

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/supply/55-stripped-down-fill-the-right

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/supply/54-strippped-down-raise-the-left

Loads of variables in bike fit, all of which can make a subtle but significant change to loads of things, not just comfort:

Saddle position fore/aft
Saddle tilt
Saddle height (linked to both of those two, ie if you drop saddle you might want to move it back or if you raise it it might need tilting forward etc)
Stem length
Stem height
Spacers
Bar width
Bar sweep
Angle of plane of bar sweep (often ignored but quite important)
Angle of cleats
Position of cleats inboard/outboard

All those things can have significant effects.. so pay attention when you ride 🙂 Sore shoulders to me sounds like perhaps too much weight on your arms so try shorter stem and perhaps lower at the same time?

If you can, post a pic of yourself on the bike?

The advice from littlegirlbunny (and Pawsy_Bear) is great. No amount of weights, core exercises or pilates will compensate for pedaling squares and generally irritating ever small muscle or joint in your body when you are shattered. The best way to avoid these niggles (assuming nothing outrageously wrong with the bike set up) is to gradually ride longer and longer. The point at which these minor niggles set in coincides with tiredness setting in for most people.

Get used to dealing with the pain.

Time on the bike helps, and you do adapt.

The other thing is to spend time working towards being faster, like brassneck suggets. The quick guys have it easy because 100km passes far quicker for them than us mere mortals! It is tempting to try and ride longer and longer but don’t neglect speeding up too other wise a long slow plod just gets longer 😀

It’s already stolen from Mark Twight – as are most of my views on the world. Twitching, possibly the best piece of advice I ever read.

Is that the same Mark Twight as Extreme Alpinism? Good link..

Anyway.. As far as comfort goes, getting your weight off your hands, sometimes bess achieved by firstly sitting a bit further back than you may be now, may make the most difference. Worth a try from what you describe. All the gel gloves and carbon bars and chammy stuff you can ever afford can’t make up for bad positioning on the bike.

bring saddle forward a tad. Also try lowering the saddle nose for distance work.

Actually the opposite of how many would go about reducing stress on your upper body and arms, as that change could shift your c of g further forward so needing more support from your arms. But to quantify that, one rider’s 100km is 4-5hrs at a brisk XC race pace that may suit the positioning you describe and for others its a steady-pace 10hrs and comfort, z2-3, etc is order of the day.

However comfy my bike is, and whatever distance I see as realistic personal ‘endurance’ I’ve only ever got there by being pretty uncomfortable generally anyway, so it’s just about how long it takes you to hurt : )

jameso – Member
It’s already stolen from Mark Twight – as are most of my views on the world. Twitching, possibly the best piece of advice I ever read.

Is that the same Mark Twight as Extreme Alpinism? Good link..

The one and only.

“Gym ideal is a must, core, back, arms etc etc squats is your leg strength exercise”

It really isn’t essential to go to the gym, granted it might help. Riding is good practice for riding. THings like turbo trainers and gyms are tools that can help but if ultimately your aim is to enjoy riding more then just do more. Anything will help, cycle to work, go for a quick 1 hour blast from your door or just ride an extra loop before meeting others. If you want to win races or do something very specific and that goal is motivation enough then maybe gyms and turbos can work. I spend time on my turbo. Probably around 3 hours a week through winter. It’s pretty dull but I know that without this time now when I hit my first road race on 8th March I’m going to struggling to hang on in the bunch not trying to get up the front an win the thing. I got fit for endurance rides like K100, Glentress 7, Kielder Marathon, national champs by just going out and riding, pushing to go a little faster and farther each time.

I’ve found that turbo trainers are very good at finding your weaknesses in a remarkably short time 😳

No-one is perfect at every aspect of riding a bike, there will always be weaknesses but you need to know what they are in order to address them. Your weaknesses will change over time as you target them though ultimately your body will determine what can be good at. What you see as a weakness might be a symptom of something else: poor pedalling technique might be because you are too tense on the bike; tiredness is a symptom of poor bike fit and so on.

There are some excellent suggestions and advice in this thread! But, at the end of the day you will also need a large dose of MTFU on long rides. Things hurt but if you can get through it they usually stop hurting when something else starts to hurt 😉 You’ll probably find that your shoulders will stop aching when your wrists start to hurt then your wrists stop hurting when you feet start to hurt an on an on.

^ true to a point, I think any gains I’ve ever made by training (term used loosely compared to what many do) could have been undone in very short time by discomfort though. There’s general fatigue discomfort and there’s specific pain that can kill a ride. Winter rides with frozen feet – there goes half your power, or so it feels to me. Or multi-day riders bailing with tendon issues, chronic achy back pain limiting your early year road rides to 3-4 hours when your legs and lungs could manage 6 or more. etc.

I think some of the really ‘super-human’ rides we see are from competently fit endurance types that are masters of looking after themselves and are mentally well-prepared. Less discomfort means more focus and I expect only a lot of experience can do that for you. But that’s getting a bit beyond going from 50km up to 100km. (a bit like reading Extreme Alpinism when preparing to try your first PD routes .. ahem.)

Jameso – if you’ve not read Kiss or Kill, go buy it. Awesome read. Also, Will Gadds Training for the New Alpinisim is excellent.

But back on thread. Yes doses of MTFU are good too.

You’ll probably find that your shoulders will stop aching when your wrists start to hurt then your wrists stop hurting when you feet start to hurt an on an on.

+1. At the puffer my back was annoying the hell out of me right up to the point where I got cramp in one of my hamstrings. It cured the back problem instantly 🙂

@jameso There’s a world of difference between something that “hurts” because you are out of your comfort zone and something that’s potentially crippling and you do need to know your body and how it reacts to things. “It hurts” could be the adult equivalent of a child’s “are we there yet?” but things like RSI can last for months if you don’t nip them in the bud.

I’ve been on both sides of the above and trust me, you don’t want to spend time on the serious side.

If you’ve got decent shorts, then either the positioning of the saddle, or the saddle itself may be an issue.

Get your sit bones measured, and make sure the saddle you have is suitable.

As others have said try and keep the weight of your hands and upper body.

I find on long rides that doing stretches of my neck arms and shoulders help to stop any stiffness building up.

Once you have your position on the bike sorted, there really shouldn’t be too much need for MTFU presuming you are riding at a steady pace, and are eating and drinking properly.

Edit: Do you carry a heavy rucksack?

I have got sore neck / shoulders / back a lot. I found that doing stretches helped a lot. Making a conscious effort to cycle relaxed also is a great help.

Whitestone, I agree, there’s normal long-ride discomforts and there’s more serious stuff that can turn into a longer term issue as you say, as I’ve also experienced. General long-ride discomfort of sorts is just unavoidable at some point, keeping it to a manageable level, knowing you can go a long way before it really builds and knowing what’s unusual and possibly serious is surely a big part of trying to ride further. But you may also get RSI, back issues or similar from commuting everyday (I’m no doctor etc).

I really started increasing mileage a few years back by riding out to the start of group rides. A 20 mile group ride can swiftly become a pretty meaningful distance if you have to ride 10, 20 or more miles at either end.

I find it also means you have a bit of a target- I’m inevitably running late on the way out so it makes me pick up the pace, on the way back I just get my head down and had home. You’ve also got the fun of riding with mates to break it up, which means you stay sociable and don’t just disappear! Mixing this with long rides at your own pace works for me.

I‘ve come to rate ergon grips. They encourage you to move your hands around and ride using slightly different positions – helps my back.
Try an extra 10-20 mm spacer under your stem, or lowering your stem – both may ease back discomfort.

Thanks all, some excellent advice there. 🙂

I’m quite sure my shoulders are a bit weak, and my arse is just coping with a lot of weight on it. Loosing weight should help loads! I did ride for a road club about 6 years ago, and did a few 100mile rides. I’ve not rode much at all in the last 5 years and have put on a lot of weight. :(. I’ve still got some decent leg strength left, just need to build my cardio and endurance.. And loose some weight!

My bikes a superlight 29 with a short stem and wide bars, so it does put a lot of weight on my backside.

I do carry a small backpack, but its really comfy and not very heavy. Have to have a bladder in it as the superlight doesn’t have a bottle cage!

I’ll put some of the advise into action and see what’s what in a month or so. Still got 5 months to twentyfour12 to shed weight and get the rides in. :S

Comfort starts from within. Within the mind. If you believe you can complete what ever endurance challenge you set out to do then you’re half way there. It’s all psychology innit. I lay in bed, as a challenge, for an entire week whilst in a completely healthy state both physically and mentally. Basically I really wanted to leap out out jump about after just four days but I needed my girlfriend to shout at me, on numerous occasions, to focus. It really was psychologically stressful I can tell you, but, I achieved my objective,raised 40 quid for charity and now plan on lying in bed for two weeks non stop. You know the sky’s the limit just believe in yourself.

Get a saddle that fit’s your bum.
My saddle of choice is the new Brooks Cambium C17, expensive but worth every penny

http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/saddles/touring+%26+trekking/Cambium+C17/