I have a pair of Endura shorts (don’t know the model/name off hand) But they’ve pretty much been worn constantly for four years (bought in the summer’06 for around 60quid) and there is still life left in them. They’re still my favourite shorts. I don’t have any of Endura’s other stuff as I moved to NZ and it’s not readily available here, but for what it’s worth ‘Ground Effect’ stuff is, and the quality of their gear in terms of construction, fit and longevity is really impressive. NZ made too!

Jim, thanks for the feed back. Any news on my jacket that has been away for repair almost three months now?

Jim, thanks for the reply.

we do sell more than a million pieces of clothing a year and the return level is a fraction of a percent. The returns level, as a percentage, has been continually falling for over a decade

That is not a persuasive argument; an old skeptic like myself would say that you are, necessarily, selling an increasing percentage to casual riders, so your return percentages should be dropping rapidly due to that.

I know that if someone has had a bad experience lately then it’s a reasonable thing to think that everyone else is experiencing the same thing…

I think you should take this more seriously than that. I live in Scotland, my cupboard is full of Endura gear because your designs match the Scottish conditions well, and because I kind of like the thought of ‘buying local’ (though I realize the naivity of that). But it used to be that the people I ride with and the people I meet out there on the trails were raving about Endura gear; does not happen so much these days — I think the brand is developing a problem, and unfortunately whether it is because the quality issues are real, or just perceived/exaggerated by the wonder of the Internet does not matter that much. I really hope you guys can overcome this.

(BTW, in the above posts there seems to be a faint pattern of the eVent garments lasting and their PTFE successors falling apart; just a thought.)

Again thanks for the reply Jim,

The returns may be a fraction of a percent from Millions of customers however !

My ENDURA HUMVEES were replaced last week as the stitching disintergrated within a dozen rides in dry summer weather !

My replacements are defective ! got them out this morning to try on and there is a 1″ gap at the top of the tea bag material behind the knee AND i have an XXL pair which bury me 👿 My others were XXL and fitted me just right………………. whats going on !

My MT500 jersey is absolutely cr@p ! worn 6 times now and the stitching is frayed at the seams where the straps of my camel back rub it !
Not a happy fraction of a percent here !

Especially as ive just ordered some Thermo lite bibs 3/4 and some singletrack shorts !

I shall stitch the arse up on these shorts and carry on regardless.

Gloves are going at the seam so it’s not massive hassle to stitch em up.

As I have a wide variety of endura kit I’d say I’m pretty loyal but as a bit of feedback for those in the know, Better thread on the arse seams please as grit and what not can wear it through.

jimbmcf – Member
The returns level, as a percentage, has been continually falling for over a decade

Which is the period of time that internet sales have risen so I’d guess that you’d actually expect returns to drop because less people will be bothered with the hassle of sending stuff back to Wiggle or wherever, then chasing and waiting, etc?

And inevitably there is less comment from the silent masses that don’t have any issues with their kit.

Fair comment, but I have had very few issues with Altura kit, or Cannondale kit, or Giro kit, etc, so don’t need to complain about those. I have had issues with Spesh gloves coming apart quickly at the seams which led me to laugh when I read:

our gloves are made in the same factory as Specialized and to the same standards.

I must remember to avoid your gloves then!

People here are accutely aware that QC is a big deal and customers rightly expect that their kit shouldn’t fail even when it’s given a beating so we’re not relaxed when we get failures (and failures are expensive as well so trying to cut corners doesn’t generally save money in the end and isn’t how we approach it).

I don’t actually believe that. Two of the common complaints on here are poppers not being ‘strong’ enough, too easily opened, and that of stitching coming undone. If you don’t cut corners, why not put decent closure systems on the garments in the first place? You could ask similar questions about the stitching. And poppers are things that can be easily tested anywhere – you don’t need to be ridinga bike.

I ride my MTB upwards of 2-3 times a week all year and have a lot of kit, built up over 16 years riding. Endura is honestly the worst quality (in terms of ‘build’ rather than fabrics) of anything I own – as I said above, the only garment I use that doesn’t have a problem are the 3/4 baggies.

I’ve had the needle and thread out to mend my singletrack kecks 4 or 5 times now, so was definitely in the great design / poor workmanship camp.

However, to say something positive, I recently returned an event jacket that had a broken zip after 18 months extensive use, and got a free replacement. This is superb service IMHO (and also a good jacket).

I have got a MT500 burner jacket that is great and a pair of shorts (not sure which) that are not so good.
Not found any other kit that I prefer though

OK, bit of dissing of Endura quality but no one has yet come up with an alternative

No GORE, Altura, specialized advocates?

Interested in anyone who has user tested all 4 (or more)

MC

No problems so far with Endura. Always thought altura was the low rent endura but I’ve not really gone for it because I didnt like the fit. Got a couple of gore tops, so far so good – both windstopper. Only ever wear specialised gloves – best fit for my mits.

I’ve had a couple of pairs of 3/4 Zyme shorts – very good. The popper does come undone now and again, although that could be related to my gut…

re:- LOOSE ZYME POPPER SYNDROME

Several months a ago, I was whining on forum about my zyme popper being loose, when some STW wag suggested twatting the inner bit with a hammer, to “mushroom” it over a bit, worked a treat for me, been fine ever since 🙂

mosschops

Good point indeed ! ENDURA has taken a bit of a bashing and i have been and still am unhappy with some of their kit !

GORE:- Too dear for me,
ALTURA:- Too much reflectalite and too yellow and Ron Hill esque
SPECIALIZED:- I,m not into it at all ! never have been…. i wont go into detail !

ENDURA:- Looks good, Feels good, and looking good is 90% of the battle.

In terms of Altura gear, I’ve had a pair of Attack short which have lasted for two years. The pocket on the outer is now falling off, but the shorts are wearable. The inner is still absolutely fine despite being my default inner all through the year.

I also was given a cheaper pair of Altura shorts at the same time two years ago. They get less use because they are just a bit too short, but again they are still going strong.

In the spring I bought an Altura soft shell (with detachable sleeves). It’s been used about 15 times I’d guess, being a bit too warm when I bought it, but again no problems. The zips and poppers all still work.

I’ve also got an Altura waterproof – a cheap one free with a sub to C+ or something. The collar niggles me because it rubs my chin, but on the other hand it is waterproof, and all the zips, seams, poppers, pockets, etc work…

Recently I bought an Attack jersey and a base layer half price in a sale. They’ve only been used a handful of times so it’s a bit early to say what the quality is like, but no problems yet.

So in terms of Altura v Endura – the Altura stuff beats Endura hands down in tersm of not falling apart at random times. Similar result with my Cannondale clothing v Endura, Dakine v Endura, and so on.

“Just saw the point above about baa-baa stuff developing random holes”
Moths, they like merino.

Just commenting where people have left a question hanging or stated something based on incorrect assumptions.

Onzadog: As I don’t know who you are, what date you returned your product or what the returns number is it would be difficult for me to tell you where your jacket is. Would suggest you contact Endura directly on 01506 497749 and ask for returns if you did return something (I checked and have been told that there are no repairs that have been with us for more than 2 weeks).

IdleJon: We have fewer distance sales of our product now than we had a decade ago. Before the Internet was significant our biggest customer, by a long way, was Wheelbase (catalogue sales) and it alone accounted for more than 20% of our sales going back to the 1990’s.
5 Years ago distance selling accounted for just over 20% of sales and Wiggle was our biggest customer. Since then it dropped to about 11% (we focussed on IBD sales and withdrew from Wiggle). So although I understand why you have assumed that we have followed the market trend we have actually gone in the opposite direction and again, if the logic of your argument holds, that would mean our returns level is actually dropping faster than we are allowing for.

Re, gloves comment; best you avoid Scott and Dakine as well then (same factory).

Your comment

I don’t actually believe that. Two of the common complaints on here are poppers not being ‘strong’ enough, too easily opened, and that of stitching coming undone. If you don’t cut corners, why not put decent closure systems on the garments in the first place?

That’s fine not to believe me but, just for the record, a YKK zipper costs about 4 times as much as the kind of generic zipper that you will find on certain other UK brands of cycle clothing. And remember there are often several of them on a single garment.
The stud closure is typically about a tenth of the cost of a YKK zipper and represents less than 0.5% of the materials cost in say a pair of SingleTrack shorts and significantly less again as a percentage of ST trousers. We choose to use high spec materials and components so if you check the back of any of the zip pullers on Hummvees, SingleTracks or anything else for that matter, you will see that if it was made in the last 5 years, when current management was in charge, it has a YKK mark on the back of the slider.
So I would put it to that it would be perverse for a company that pursues this policy and specs such materials when it could make significant savings on fabrics and components using generic alternatives to then choose to try to save money on a component that is completely insignificant in the cost make up of the garment.
We recognised the issue that the setting chosen for stud poppers was too slack about two years ago and tightened it up. It was misjudged and it caused hassle for customers but the reason for it wasn’t that we used a low spec stud fastener; we didn’t get snapped or broken studs back, just ones that were set too loose. This cock-up caused problems and annoyance but the suggestion that it was due to cost cutting is well wide of the mark. Production on this was fixed around 2 years ago but it typically takes over a year for fresh production to work its way into the hands of consumers by the time it makes it through the supply chain. We use branded Coats thread on our shorts.

Tf Comment:

That is not a persuasive argument; an old skeptic like myself would say that you are, necessarily, selling an increasing percentage to casual riders, so your return percentages should be dropping rapidly due to that.

Not sure what this is based on but an increasing percentage of our sales over the last 4 or 5 years has been coming from high end pieces such as Stealth and Venturi especially as we export more so not at all obvious we are selling more, as a percentage of sales, to casual riders.

Just to reitereate, since I think this is significant in the mismatch of what is happening at Endura and what is perceived on this forum, that it takes 1-2 years from when a spec or process change is introduced to work its way through into the hands of the final user/consumer.

Endura’s warranty system is so slow I’m on the verge of going down the not fit for purpose Sale of Goods act route for a refund from the dealer.

The dealer actually said to me that they are painfully slow so they would get the nod from Endura and send me some new shorts from their own stock and square it up with Endura themselves.

Well several weeks on and I’m still waiting – chase the dealer up every week to be told Endura still haven’t made a decision and they can’t get hold of them ‘as they are in turmoil’.

Well if anyone at Endura reads this – HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE I BUY ANY OF YOUR POOR QUALITY TAT AGAIN

I was close to buying a Stealth jacket until this. Gore all the way for me now.

I have Singletrack shorts and 3/4s, going on two years old, cant fault them.
Event shorts are brilliant pieces of kit (better than the new PTFE version IMO ), I live in Cumbria, so they get alot of use, no problems so far.

Have used Endura gloves for a long time, Full Montys, Dexter, Strike, I have moved over to Gore in the last 6 months as I’ve found they fit better, purely personal taste, had no problem with quality, just found the fingers a little short.

Really good to see Jim representing Endura, I’ve always found their customer service to be brilliant (replaced the frame on my Stingray glasses in a matter of days) will happily keep buying alongside Gore stuff.

IME Altura not very well cut but does function ok.

I have Singletrack shorts and 3/4s, going on two years old, cant fault them.

+1 – both have lasted me ages with almost no signs of wear.

Endura Stealth jacket also doing very well although only had it a few weeks.

I have some Burner shorts that are just the clothing equivalent of a leper – chamois came adrift after a few rides and bits have been dropping off them ever since. The crotch fell apart on my Singletracks but the local dry cleaners sorted it for a fiver. I haven’t had similar experiences with Sugoi or Gore shorts that I own which have been soldiering on for 3-4 years now.

I haven’t returned either of these items – in the case of the Burners, the fit is horrible and they won’t stay done up, so the last thing I want is a brand new pair. The Singletracks are great shorts and I would happily have them minted up, but I gather that Endura like to repair stuff and it can also be a very drawn-out process, so the easiest solution was just to sort them myself. So the claims of a “silent majority” who are happy with their stuff have to be counterbalanced by people like me who can’t be bothered to return stuff if it can be mended in 5 minutes.

my single track full trousers are going strong despite me sliding down the road and trail in them countless times. Almost unfaultable. Bomber 😀

I use the Endura stuff quite a lot, never had any of the issues on here…

I have 2 x Endura Hummvees & a pair of 3/4 shorts, MT500 jersey, merino tops, rebound jacket, singletrack shorts, lycra shorts, glasses and loads more…..I cant fault the quality thats why I keep buying the stuff….

And it all gets used a lot, plenty of abuse and its all still going strong… I have other brands, but its not the same fit/quality IMO.

Hummvee shorts are seemingly indestructable here, despite numerous crashes and washing them loads. One of the panel sections is fading faster than the others but they are years old so can’t complain.

My Altura night vision tights have on the other hand lasted one ride, the reflective panelling is already coming off and the stitching on the legs seems loose, and I’ve got well skinny calfs! Both zips on my Altura jacket have failed too.

So Endura beats Altura for me.

My Hummvee shorts are still OK but the other 2 items of Endura kit I’ve bought this year have both had issues.

It wouldn’t be so bad but for the fact that their warranty dept seem to be so hopeless. I’ve been without my MT500 baggies for several weeks which considering they cost me £65 isn’t good enough. They’ll get one more week and then I’ll pursue a refund from the dealer.

I work in a shop that sells Endura and would just like to point out that we have significantly less Endura products returned compared to our other three brands. I have also found Endura sales and warrenty team to be very helpfull and quick to react to the odd few issues we have had.
Perhaps it comes down to that Endura our arguably the biggest clothing brand so of course there will be more moaning people. Just because i havent heard a bad word yet about SKINS clothing dosent mean its invincable it just means theres not that many people out there using the garments resulting in less complaints and a better company image perhaps?