Hi.

The wife had a right ‘mare giving birth to our son (2 days old this evening).

Plus poor blighter was horribly tongue tied (fixed this afternoon).

Basically breastfeeding has taken a hit, he has had quite a bit of formula to tide him over.

Mrs sees herself as double failure, quite unjustified, and keeps breaking down.

She if persevering with pumps and hand expression, but it is a right sod and she is on the point if giving up.

Sorry if too much, even for the chat section, but at whits end as nearly lost the sproglet on Saturday night.

Cheers, Alex

We had similar. Number one was a bugger, but after 8 or so days of the kind of heartache you’re going through it just clicked.

Keep at it. She’s doing well.

But if she wants to stop, that’s fine too.

I can only repeat what Pook said. I’m currently sat up with my 15 week old twins, while my wife gets some much needed sleep. They were 8 weeks early and in hospital for 6 weeks with one of that being IV fed and the other 5 by naso-gastric tube. Took a while for breastfeeding to click when we got home and it was a bit fraught and sleepless for a while, but we’re into a sort of routine now. When it works it works (and is so much easier than bottles) but it will take some perseverance to get there and the best thing you can do is be as supportive as you can but also realise that it’s really up to your wife on what she does so respect and be supportive of any decisions she makes.

Too much to type here and too personal. If you want my similar experience / opinion, email in profile and I’ll give you my phone number so we can speak.

We has a hell of a time with both of ours. First was pretending to suckle and had to go back in after a few days as he dropped to just over 4lbs from 7.5. On to formula after days of trying by my Mrs. She had all that you are going through, not helped by all the ‘Breast is best!’ posters! But once she made the decision to enjoy him rather than kill herself trying everything got better on the formula (plus I got to do the nighttime feeds).

He’s now eight and one of the sharpest in his year. 75th percentile too in height.

Second one was the opposite except that my Mrs couldn’t produce enough for him so had to top up with formula. He was soon on just formula and drinking a vast amount!

98th percentile now in height and weight, 4 years old, and the size of some of his brothers friends! Sharp as a tack too.

So, they will be fine on formula, most of us born in the 70s were raised on it. But it is super super hard at the beginning with all the propaganda that makes you both feel terrible.

All you can do is be there to support her. Logic doesn’t come into it as it’s an extremely difficult and emotive subject.

Best of luck to you both, you’ll get through it, but try not to worry and enjoy your new arrival if you can.

Support and encourage her to keep at it but ultimately do what you think is best. She will be knackered and emotional/irrational and feeling like it’s all gone wrong. Not the perfect start but he’s with you and you can build on that. As much skin to skin contact as possible to help bonding between all three of you. If the breast feeding comes then great, if not it is not the end of the world. It took my wife a few days with both of ours for them to really take to it. Especially the first.
Congratulations by the way. Whatever you think, you’re doing great.

@sammy c, I don’t really want to get in to an argument about it here, but it’s not propaganda that breast is best, there’s a massive amount of medical research which backs it up. This doesn’t mean you hsve to breast feed though, the decision is entirely personal.

i do agree that sometimes the pro breast lobby can be unnecessarily militant though.

Alex, that sounds awful. It’s not ‘too much’ for the forum at all.

Mrs Pz is expecting our first, and we’re neither of us at the ideal age, so I’m bracing myself for all sorts of problems.

Pook has it right – it’ll all work out in the end. I can’t imagine what I would (or will?) do to console my OH in the same circs. Not sure there’s a right route to take, any more than there’s a wrong route….

Hang in there. It’ll be ok, and you’ll both be great.

We are currently at 5 months with our first and had a really hard time breast feeding for the first few weeks breast feeding. Little fella had a tongue tie, and mum was bed bound for two weeks in hospital after a tough birth/ huge blood pressure and back probs.
we had a combination of tube feeding, bottle feeding, and breast feeding. But the breast feeding was really tough.

It’s loads better now but still do a bottle or two each day of formula. Growth is spot on and doing great.

Stick at it, but don’t think it’s the be all and end all, it isn’t at all. Getting them fed is important, but if it’s from formula, or expressed milk, that’s fine.

Congratulations!!! 8)

As long as the baby is fed it doesnt matter how its done.
Theres no right / wrong.. You’ll get more sleep if your wife feeds the baby. 😉
The roller coaster of parenthood as already done one lap…

keep at it. She’s doing well.
But if she wants to stop, that’s fine too.

This.

i do agree that sometimes the pro breast lobby can be unnecessarily militant though.

And this.

So, they will be fine on formula, most of us born in the 70s were raised on it. But it is super super hard at the beginning with all the propaganda that makes you both feel terrible.

And if it comes to it this too.

Whatever you think, you’re doing great.

But most of all that^^.

Congratulations!

Thanks guys, appreciated.

Decided to let her sleep, instead of waking her hub to the 11.30 expression.

This stuff is pretty hardcore.

Is she in touch with the local Breast Feeding Network group? If not then that would be a massive first step. My wife had problems (actually it looked like her nipple was hanging off) because she got shown totally the wrong technique in the hospital, either that or the drugs from the c-section made that sole explanation rather difficult to follow. Once the ‘rep’ came round though she got sorted and never looked back.

The main thing though is that whilst you can help her as much as possible, if it REALLY gets too much then you need to talk sense into her, not easy when shes gonna be an utter mess of residual hormones from the pregnancy and the forthcoming tsunami of repressed hormones get released (including some nice new post partum varieties). Good luck with it, its not easy on either of you when there are problems but there is always someone out there who has been through the wringer and can help you both through.

Babies are designed to survive the first few days with very little milk in terms of volume so try not to worry

Your Wife’s milk may take 3-4 days to ‘come in’ (longer if she has had a cesarean section)so don’t worry.
Keeping up with the child’s feeding and regular expressing (every 3 hours if she can) – this includes expressing after the baby has fed at the breast are very important in the first few days as the ultimate physiology of breast in terms of its ability to produce milk is determined by this regular stimulation.

Your baby’s attempts at feeding may involve several hours at a time at the breast (known as cluster feeding) rather than the more expected feed for 20-30 mins then sleep for 2-3 hours this can obviously be extremely draining for Mum and Dad.

If you are giving bottle feeds ensure the teat has has the correct flow (mimicking that of the breast)if the flow is to fast it can jepordise the ultimate success of establishing breast feeding.
You(Dad)can bottle feed Mums expressed milk so she can sleep.

Tell people who want to visit you straight away to wait a week or longer. Time spent entertaining is cumulatively draining save your wifes and your own energy.
Get friends and family to cook for you, bring food, look after other kids

We knew that Mrs TT would not be able to breastfeed beyond the 1st week. Between donated breastmilk (yes, support groups managed through NICUs etc) and formula, we managed to raise a now-very-healthy-and-well-developed 5 year old.
She hasn’t failed as a woman, but things are not at their most logical for her right now. Be supportive, be positive and try to relax. With formula at least it’s easier for you to help with feeding. I am convinced I bonded so much better with my daughter because I didn’t just hand her off every time she needed feeding.
The breastfeeding mafia are often harsh, but certain words do shut them up pretty quickly, especially when said very directly.

Hi guys 🙂

11 weeks in with our first here. Christ on a bike it’s been an absolute ballache if I’m honest. I’ve just been in the supporting role and found it tough so God knows what our other halves are going through.

Please dont for a min let your good lady feel like a failure. The very fact you’ve got so far proves that your both on the right track. There’s a lot of pro boobie stuff and my Mrs is hanging on there. It is trying and very difficult at times. Out of our nct group there are three out of 9 that carried on breastfeeding after 2-3 weeks. Its that tough. However give it a go but dont be upset if it doesn’t work out.

If you’ve been through the mill as it sounds just take the next 2 weeks to look after each other.

Some folks make it look easy. If it makes you feel better were in the ones that aren’t. 🙂

Lots of chocolate also helped

We’re 5 months in with ours too. As above, those were hard hard days to start with. My wife had a hell of a time getting the breast feeding established. It got easier but it took 3 months and much suffering.

There are very good local breast feeding support drop in clinics around where we live. They were invaluable for my wife during the early stages.

I don’t think anyone would deny that breast feeding is best, however the pressure put on women is unbelievable.

Mrs FD found it hard, and never really got on with it, I don’t think the pressure in hospital helped one bit in hospital. We ended using a pump, which meant I could help with feeds.

Eventually it finally clicked, but only when all the pressure had gone, but at that point Jnr FD had got used to a teat.

IMO Mum has enough on her plate with a new baby, without being made to feel inadequate too.

Completely agree FunkyDunc. No one denies it would be preferable but people should be supported in this decision and allowed to choose not to without being made to feel a failure if they don’t.

Congratulations, and this:

As long as the baby is fed it doesnt matter how its done.

Mine were both bottle-fed, and the eldest is now 15 and taller than her mother…

Op, let your wife make her decision and stick to your guns. Parents instincts are best and mother is just as important as baby. It was a shock for me all these do-gooders with their own agendas sticking their noses in and giving disapproving looks at every turn. It really made my wife feel like a crap mother before she even started. There are so many aspects of bringing up a baby that influence its health and wellbeing, breast feeding is just one very very tiny element and despite the ‘evidence’ your baby will thrive whether you decide to breast feed or bottle feed. It really doesn’t matter. When your baby is 18yo no scientist in the world will be able to tell if they were breast or bottle fed. The benefit to your baby and the mother of stress free successful feeding, wether it be bottle or breast, will be of far more importance to both. My wife too struggled to breast feed, within 48 hrs of the birth of our first was tearing herself up emotionally at the prospect of the absolute pressure she was feeling to breast feed, obviously amplified at that low point in her own head, in the end, with the help of a brilliant midwife, we convinced her to give it up and bottle feed, and we have two perfectly healthy and thriving girls. They’ve not grown two heads, or always sick, or somehow mentally challenged or anything. They’re just perfect.

Be prepared for more. There will be others ready to tell you how to feed your babies, his to put them to bed, how to bring them up etc. use all this advice as ideas of different things to try, but despite what anyone says, do what works for you. My two girls were completely different from each other, there is no one rule for all despite what anyone tells you.

Good luck. It’s the hardest journey you’ll undertake, but also the most rewarding.

I said I wouldn’t post reams and I won’t, the offer is there that I’ll give you a call. But a few points.

The breast is best campaign; is true but that doesn’t mean formula is bad. The trouble is that any positives have to be played down because of the instant ‘well they would say that, wouldn’t they?’ response.

My wife and I tried everything, we even had a private 1-1 La Leche counsellor that we paid for to give hands on support, alongside the nct and health visitor. None of them got out daughter to latch on and suckle properly. With that level of expert support you’d have thought it would be fixed easily surely? No chance, it doesn’t come natural to some babies.

Stress is a major factor, the harder my wife tried the worse it got, she wanted it so badly. And unfortunately the more she tried the more the militant pro lobby made her feel like she was failing.

Eventually it took my wife having massive double mastitis and me nearly swinging my daughter by the legs and hitting her head against the doorframe to make it come to a stop. That was after 3 weeks of misery. This thing that was everything that we had wanted had ruined it all in 20 days. I had to phone my mum and walk out of the house. If your wife feels like a failure, that’s nothing to where I was.

When I got back my mum had fixed it. She’d thrown a mum sized strop which is surprising large for a 5 foot grandmother, and the baby was happily gorging on a bottle of formula. The health visitor was packing up to go but had clearly been in tears. Turned out she had thought all along that our daughter would be one of those that didn’t take to the breast but because we seemed so determined she’d have let us down by suggesting otherwise. And secondly, the local health authority had her ‘on a warning’ because too many of her mums were rejecting breast feeding, and it was all target driven shit back then, and she didn’t want to lose another.

So militant pro-breast / formula is evil nearly led to the death of my daughter. If I hadn’t walked out that day, I can’t honestly say I wouldn’t have, I was that far at the end of my tether.

DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU THREE AND THE REST CAN **** OFF. THIS SHOULD BE THE HAPPIEST TIME OF YOUR LIFE, NOT PURGATORY.

My second took to the breast overnight, no dramas at all. Same mum, same tits, different baby, different expectations. They’re both destroying the kitchen getting breakfast before school as I speak. To look at them and to read their health charts or school reports, you wouldn’t know which was a formula baby and which was a breast.

I do still frequently want to murder them though. Tweenagers!

Got to agree with what other have said. Mrs M tried to breast feed and couldn’t. She got pretty upset by it for the first few days but then came to the conclusion that it just wasn’t going to happen so moved on.

When we spoke to the midwife about it she said that not all women can breast feed due to either baby or shape of breast/nipple and it is more common than most realise (plus she said to just ignore the “militant, feminist, must breast feed or you’re a bad mother nazis”, her words not mine!, and do what it right for you).

Mini M has been on formula milk from day 1 and she was walking at 7 months so it can’t be that bad for them.

Good luck and remember to look after yourself as well as mother and baby.

We struggled with breast feeding our one for about six weeks or so. Wife was absolutely desperate to do the best for the little one, tried pumps etc, but it just wasn’t working well. Baby wasn’t gaining weight etc.

She felt like poo as a result, as well has having a really difficult birth, being housebound from the c section and so on, it was just too much. She felt like a complete failure.

Eventually my wife broke down in front of one of the health visitors who then said something like “don’t worry about breast milk or formula, it doesn’t matter – the best thing for your baby is to have a happy mum“. Obvious really, but the way the health person said it clicked something in my wifes head and allowed her to switch completely to formula with no guilt. Baby thrived since, mum happy. Still bastard tired 8 months on though 😀

For such an emotive “battle lines ” subject I agree with every one above breast is best in the first world with access to clean water sterilisation equipment and quality formula is a a marginal gain . We as in my wife established breast feeding well but that was due to an unexpectedly long time in hospital post partem and a good deal of support from one very good nurse . We have a happy healthy 4 year old about to start school today.
Breast feeding was hard work and we made our lives fit round it. We had peers on Nct etc for whom for a variety of reasons breast feeding didn’t work they too now have happy healthy 4 year olds . Do what works for you take support and advise but not instructions or dictat . Despite what you think in the dark you are doing well and everything will be OK .

Our little boy is 10 weeks now we switched to formula after about a week as he was feeding constantly. he was on 120ml formula about 7 times a day inside 3 weeks.
He is now something like 99.6 percentile for height now. So my poor wife would never have kept up.
Please support your wife as well as you can and just keep reassuring her she is not failing.
If she is finding coping really tough talk to the docs as her hormones will be going mental right now. I couldn’t believe quite how much they go haywire.
If he is on formula from early on he will be fine. There are a huge number of people who were formula fed from birth.
And i challenge anyone to be able to pick out those who were breast fed from those who had bottle in a line up

breast feeding doesn’t come naturally for some women/children

While it’s ‘supposedly’ how we’re inteded to feed our kids in reality there are plenty of reasons as to why in some cases this doesn’t work out.

We (well I was there) had a hell of time with it – and in the end decided that the heartache and pain (and the depression that was coming with it) just wasn’t worth it and after a couple of weeks went straight to formula (with #1, with #2 he was on formula after about 4 days as we had the same issues).

Your wife (and you) have been through the wringer, don’t add to that with the added stress of breast feeding when it’s not working out and don’t feel that you’ve failed your kid. Far from it – you’re on the right track (actually caring about the sprog) to being an ace dad

Get in touch with a private lactation/feeding consultant. They’re usually experienced midwives who’ve tired of not being able to do their job properly in the NHS, so they offer support independently. My wife was concerned that our younger one (who is now 8 weeks old) was tongue-tied like his elder sister (who the NHS never diagnosed) and for about £50 this lady spent some hours with my wife and the baby watching them feed and helping sort things out.

Such a vast difference to what she had from the overworked midwives in the NHS. The more experienced midwives are too short of time and some of other healthcare professionals don’t have a clue (we had some giving us advice which we knew was no longer considered NHS best practice!)

“We had a hell of a time with both of ours. First . . . had to go back in after a few days” 😯

Agree with all the congratulations and best wishes comments. At the same time, as tough as it can be, don’t worry. You probably already know about them, but you and/or your wife might want to give the La Leche League a call. They are there to support people with breastfeeding in all circumstances.

I don’t need to say that you and your wife should feel no pressure from them, though.

Get in touch with a private lactation/feeding consultant.

We had one of them. Couldn’t get the baby to latch on properly and at the same time managed to make my wife feel like it was entirely her fault. Took our money and left us in a worse state than we were. The worst sort of breast is best nazi we encountered.

I’m sure like in all walks of life there are good and bad. By all means try it, but if you get one you don’t get on with / doesn’t benefit you get them out of there asap. Ours was poisonous.

Dude my wife had lots of problems with this too. The maternity nurses in the hospital for our first baby were pretty militant breast feeders. My wife felt pretty devastated. Its hard enough for women and the hormones and emotions they are feeling after just giving birth as it is. The point reiterated by many is your wife is very far from being alone and not a failure. This article is interesting:

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/breastfeeding-formula-debate-mothers-baby

another:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/24/class-baby-breastfed-life-chances-inequality

extract:
‘But the scientific evidence is not what it seems. The only really consistent finding is that breastfeeding reduces a baby’s chance of getting a stomach bug. The protection only lasts for as long as you breastfeed. And it’s not clear whether the protection comes from something in the breast milk or from not using dirty bottles.’

So, the science can be disputed, yes breast probably is a little bit better. But your wife’s welfare and emotional relationship with her baby are probably more important. Breast milk isn’t going to make your child a genius. In fact of our two children the one who had no breast milk is very advanced in her class, she’s 6 and reads 2-3 80 page paper backs a night. I only say that so you can see it hasn’t hindered her.

Also, whilst my wife wasn’t the best breast feeder, she has gone on to be a genuinely amazing mother, and that has not just been recognised by me, but by friends and family.

I can only reiterate what nearly everyone says above, the only important thing is to have a happy and healthy baby and Mum – how your little boy is fed really doesn’t matter.

Ours is now 5 months (and absolutely magic!) and as others above we really struggled in the early days with feeding. We may just have been unlucky with our midwife(s) but the pressure to persist with breastfeeding and subsequently being made to feel like a failure at a time we really needed support was IMO disgusting.

In the end we made the decision (against the advice of the MW) to supplement the feeding with a bottle of formula at night, this took the pressure off and was a real turning point. At 3 months we moved to just formula and have a happy, healthy Mum and baby.

Do what your instinct think is right, you’ll usually find it’s the way to go and wish you did it sooner!

**edit** oh yeah, and it is **** hard work but it does get easier after the first 2 weeks… honest!

We were in hospital for a week while the little blighter sorted out how to do it (dropped weight etc, wouldn’t let us go home)

Thankfully baby S and Mrs S sorted it out between them but a good few of our friends went to see the NCT breastfeeding baby whisperer with good success but there were also loads of support groups run at the local sure start centers.

The feeling like a failure thing seems to be common, they really do push is so hard on you in the hospital. The main thing that’s helped us is remembering that if you’re not looking after yourselves then you’re in no state to do your best for the little ‘un.

Hi,

Like someone else has said – we’ve had a similar experience – but you’ll only have similar and never identical. You guys must do what’s right for you and not think about what other people are doing. Thinking about what others have done will do your heads in – every situation is unique.
If you want to email , my email address is in my profile….

As others have said, do whatever you feel right for you both.

You could try phoning the NCT helpline (0300 330 0700) and talk to a breastfeeding consultant. They may be of help and shouldn’t be to militant (wife used to be one).

It will take a couple of days for the milk to come in. Keep going you are both doing a great job and no-one tells you how difficult the first few days are, mostly cos parents very quickly forget (block it out)

theotherjonv – Member
DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU THREE AND THE REST CAN **** OFF

This, basically. If your wife is in a shit state, then something clearly needs to change. The stress of the situation is quite possibly contributing to the problem, so it’s a bit catch-22.

My wife had a nightmare giving birth to Number 1 Child – thirty-something hours all up. Started off naturally, slowed to a stop, by this time she was knackered from the pushing. Tried venteuse, got most of the way out, got stuck, got pushed back in. Then off to surgery to take the emergency escape hatch. After all the trauma her body was having none of it when it came to breast feeding, so he had to go on formula. It came right eventually, but even then he wasn’t getting enough from her so we had to top up with formula.

We were lucky that our ante-natal teacher said “right, we’re government funded so I have to tell you that breast is best. I’m not allowed to tell you as a group anything about formula feeding. But, if one couple was to come to me privately after the class, I could tell you, not as a teacher but as a regular person, all about it. And if the rest of the class happened to have hung about and were eaves-dropping, then so be it.” So we did, and she did 🙂 So at least we got to hear both sides, not just the official line.

Some friends of ours had their first and really struggled, the baby just wouldn’t stop crying. All day, every day, save for short periods after breast feeding. They had specialist help from the hospital, were told not to use formula, to just keep persevering and it’d come right. It didn’t. Eventually she had a bit of a breakdown and told him that she was going back to Namibia to be with her family. He got on the phone to his Mother-in-Law, got her over to the UK quick smart. Within a couple of hours the MiL (having had a load of kids and grandkids already) declared the baby was just hungry, went and bought formula and started feeding the kid that. Silence, happy baby, happy parents. Job jobbed.

So, to re-iterate what everyone else has said, do whatever it takes to get enough food into the sprog. Hopefully that will help everything else fall into place.

And hopefully this thread has made you realise that you’re not alone – it’s one of those things like infertility or miscarriages where you never hear about them and feel quite alone until you finally open up and find that loads of other people have gone through similar and that it’s actually quite common. Hopefully talking it through on here can help provide some guidance.

Can i add that we need like buttons.
So many great replies to this thread

Lots of great advice here. A couple of things come across that ring true with our experience. Firstly, try not to sweat the small stuff. That is so hard when your knackered, stressed, emotional and confused but you’ve done so very, very much already to get this little lad through a tough introduction to the world that where his nutrition comes from doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things (especially when you factor in the benefits of less stressed, more rested parents). The second thing is that it’s obvious that you’re doing great and he’s a very lucky chap to have such awesome parents.

It is hard but you’ll get through it. Look after each other.

It’s tough. Compared to some of the tales above our first (now 3.5 months old) was a pretty straightforward i.e. a C-section with no other complications. He dropped lots of weight in the first 2-3 weeks and the pressure on mrs djambo was immense, not so much form the midwives but more from herself. the milk came in, he seemed to be latched well and feeding lots (LOTS) but clearly wasn’t getting enough. she could express by hand (took ages and wasn’t really worth it beyond proving there was milk there!) but the pump never produced a drop. he dropped through the percentiles like a rock.

A friend recommended to keep some ready mixed formula in the house as an emergency (he did this because they ended up going back to hospital needlessly when their feeding wasn’t working out). We tried cup feeding with this a couple of times when it got tough but he wasn’t really interested. It was good to have it there as a backup even though we barely used it.

We got through it by buying a shed load of Lansinoh nipple cream (highly recommended), mrs djambo feeding him for literally hours at a time and not worrying too much about him dropping down the weight percentiles. We’re 3.5 months in now, djambo jnr is still a titch compared to his peers but he’s by far the liveliest/most alert.

Our midwives/health visitors were al great. They all said don’t worry too much about the weight. If the nappies are full and they’re alert then they should be fine.

Lots of good advice above. Above all don’t forget that no matter how tired/stressed you are your wife is that X10. And if all else fails he can go on the bottle…it worked alright for me 😉