Viewing 17 posts - 41 through 57 (of 57 total)
  • emissions testing is a joke
  • jambalaya
    Free Member

    As Edukator posted above Mercedes is recalling every single diesel sold in the last 6 yeats for “software updates”, ie they think every single car fails the emissions test 😯

    @molgrips we need real on the road testing and it should be ongoing over the life of a specific test sample of vehicles & models. It’s absolutely clear from the pollution data that cars are not putting out what they where predicted to do.

    parkesie
    Free Member

    A mot test is the lowest standard acceptable for a car to be road worthy. Prety much if it drives in stops has all mandatory lights and mirrors and dosnt catch fire or try to kill the tester it will pass.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    molgrips we need real on the road testing and it should be ongoing over the life of a specific test sample of vehicles & models.

    Agree. More better testing.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    tehtehtehteh
    Free Member

    For your own benefit, I suggest you get out a bit more.

    it took me a matter of seconds to look up the reg on the helmet cam footage and then type it into the dvla mot thingy, because I was genuinely interested to see if something that bad could have passed an mot

    but cheers for letting me know I’m a loser, I’ll change my life now

    jimjam
    Free Member

    stevextc – Member

    The problem is the testing ….
    Manufacturers will manufacture to beat tests …. but the tests themselves are as per title of the thread a complete joke.

    People then buy based on the joke testing results … resulting in people buying diesels for town.

    The manufacturers don’t mind whether you buy diesel, petrol, hybrid or electric so long as you buy….
    They don’t have a diesel agenda .. they have a what sells under the rules agenda.

    Diesels are crap at short trips … good at long ones…. you can improve either but that’s not what’s happening because the tests are trying to beat both or they fail … rather than take an approach that diesels will be efficient at longer trips or pulling big loads therefore that is where they should be made less polluting as that is where they will be used if people had access to proper test figures…

    I’m not sure I agree with your assessment Steve. I’ve never met anyone who buys based on testing. Yes people will consider tax bands but honestly I think they buy new cars based on image, aspiration and needs but not necessarily in that order.

    People are going to convince themselves they need a Range Rover or an Audi Q7 regardless of co2 and due to the cost of petrol manufacturers put diesel engines in them. Everywhere else in the world there are petrol variants of big cars, suvs and vans. The cars exist, they just aren’t viable somewhere where there’s a 70% tax on petrol.

    If people had access to proper choice they could buy more appropriate vehicles for their needs.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    You’ve met me in a virtual way, Jimjam. I’m happy to buy a car which very few poeple aspire to, is built by a low image manufacturer, doesn’t meet many of my needs (but I’ll work around that). I bought it because it’s zero emissions at the point of use (and as a bonus it’s the most fun thing I’ve driven since a Mini 850 or 2CV).

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Edukator

    You’ve met me in a virtual way, Jimjam. I’m happy to buy a car which very few poeple aspire to, is built by a low image manufacturer, doesn’t meet many of my needs (but I’ll work around that). I bought it because it’s zero emissions at the point of use (and as a bonus it’s the most fun thing I’ve driven since a Mini 850 or 2CV).

    Well I’m sure we all have far more virtual acquaintances than real friends but point taken, my brush strokes were too broad. I know you live in France but I’m sure you’ve been to London or similar large cities where a huge number of people drive big diesel SUVs. I’m not against people driving them or owning them, I just think it’s curious that government legislators and manufacturers are locked into a perpetual dance where they constantly raise the bar on emissions and manufactures come up with ever more sophisticated ways to make dirty diesels “clean”, when with a stroke of a pen, a cut in duty on petrol would solve at least part of the problem and drastically reduce NOx and particulates.

    Buyers are still buying into this myth that diesels are somehow greener, and more efficient (not denying they are) or that their fuel efficiency directly correlates to their environmental cleanliness.

    Inbred456
    Free Member

    Some DPF trivia. The Freelander 1 1.8L diesel and later 2.0 TD4 (which used the 2.0 BMW Engine) do not have DPF systems, and neither does the early 2.2 TD4 (158 bhp) Freelander 2 from its introduction in 2006 until 2010. All Freelander SD4, ED4 and the TD4 version released in 2010 (147 / 150bhp) do all have DPF’s fitted.
    It’s the tiny particles that you can’t see that get in the blood stream that are the real nasty ones.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Absolutely, Jimjam. As a guy was putting his mtb back in his new diesl C4 this morning he said that he wanted a petrol but the compnay gets a tax reduction on diesel cars but not petrol. Fortuneately that due to chnage shortly.

    Inbred456
    Free Member

    Isn’t the black stuff unburnt diesel? The particulates from the combustion are caught in the DPF then burnt off turned to ash and stored in the bottom of the DPF ( the regen cycle) until it fills up and gets clogged and then it gets replaced. More shorter runs from cold result in the DPF clogging up faster. You would be surprised how many diesels don’t have DPF’s until after 2010. Why they just don’t make a DPF that you can empty at a service then you could manufacture one that could trap more rubbish surely.

    sbob
    Free Member

    Burning stuff will always release pollutants.
    You can fudge the cocktail in one direction or another, but the only way to make a real difference is to burn less stuff. 🙂

    molgrips
    Free Member

    You’ve met me in a virtual way, Jimjam. I’m happy to buy a car which very few poeple aspire to, is built by a low image manufacturer, doesn’t meet many of my needs (but I’ll work around that).

    He did say ‘not many people’ not ‘no-one’. And I’m sure you’re aware that you are not typical.

    Buyers are still buying into this myth that diesels are somehow greener

    I really cannot imagine that is still the case. The first thing people now know about diesels is that they are ‘bad for the environment’ since dieselgate. Just above the fact that they will go expensively wrong as soon as you drive them off the forecourt. Neither of which is quite accurate.

    Company car tax is the biggest thing in favour of them currently I think.

    Burning stuff will always release pollutants.

    Not always. Burning hydrogen and oxygen is pretty much ok. Reacting them in a fuel cell is even better.

    Isn’t the black stuff unburnt diesel?

    It’s unburned carbon. Diesel goes into the chamber in droplets that burn from the outside in. If the droplet isn’t in the cylinder for long enough or with enough air the middle just gets singed and carbonised instead of fully combusted.

    Higher injection pressures mean smaller droplets, which means more air in between the droplets and they burn more completely more quickly.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    molgrips

    Buyers are still buying into this myth that diesels are somehow greener

    I really cannot imagine that is still the case. The first thing people now know about diesels is that they are ‘bad for the environment’ since dieselgate. [/quote]

    It is. Very few people are as deeply entrenched in this stuff as the type of people you’ll find on this forum. The lengthy thread about dieselgate and the level of detail therein is waaaay over and above most people’s knowledge and boredom threshold on the subject.

    I can give you a few examples of friends and family members who’ve bought new diesel motors and the strange conversations we’ve had but I realise it’s somewhat anecdotal.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Maybe it’s your family 🙂 Most of the people I talk to at work (not on STW) watch the news and are aware of dieselgate.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Just as people used to mix up the ozone layer (CFCs) and greenhousing (CO2) it seems people are mixing up the diesel gate and CO2 issues. There’s still the idea diesels are more eco-friendly. Look at the car badges “Eco Up” “Ecotech”. People go on believing the lies. They’re stinky, smelly, carcinogenic, asthma inducing, poisoning diesels, period.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    molgrips – Member

    Maybe it’s your family Most of the people I talk to at work (not on STW) watch the news and are aware of dieselgate.

    Well my family’s behaviour and actions have baffled me. My uncle is one of the most senior and respected insurance assesors in Ireland with deep knowledge of the auto trade and he’s regularly called as an expert witness in court cases. He had a 2.0 A6 tdi when diesel gate happened. He was enraged and swore he’d never buy another vag car. He recently retired and no longer does any serious mileage. He just bought a new 2.0 A6 tdi.

    My sister, despite lengthy conversations with me about the benefits of smaller turbo petrol engines, the dangers of NOx and potential taxes on diesels in the future and who does about 10,000 miles per year just bought a brand new A6 2.0 tdi. I even accompanied her to the showroom on one of her trips and caught the salesman trying to play on the green credentials of a passat diesel (suffice to say I shot him a quizzical look).

    And my good friend who works in the motor trade and who was a former VAG employee just bought a Tiguan 2.0 tdi.

    My feeling is that if people want a big car they’ll figure out a way to justify buying a big car, and if you buy a big petrol car you know it’ll be thirsty so you get the diesel option instead and convince yourself it’s not the more polluting option because look – it’s £20 tax so it can’t be that bad!

    (I should also add that in Ireland and in Northern Ireland we are positively infatuated with diesels to a much greater extent than England, Scotland or Wales).

    molgrips
    Free Member

    It is true that people will justify buying what they want. However:

    trying to play on the green credentials of a passat diesel

    They do have some green credentials. They are better than petrol in some areas and worse in others. The question is, which is worse? Rather hard to say.

Viewing 17 posts - 41 through 57 (of 57 total)

The topic ‘emissions testing is a joke’ is closed to new replies.