We are going to have a new garage put in at the bottom of our driveway. I need to get power to it. The consumer unit is behind the wall by the drain pipe on the right, and apparently is set up correctly for a simple installation. We want x 2 double sockets and LED strip lights in the garage.

Distance to the garage is approx. 10m, and just to make it easy the driveway is going to be replaced so they wont even have to bury the cable!

Quoted so far £696 + VAT 😯

Is that reasonable ?

I’m not sparky but I’ve just looked at Armoured Cable to run to my outbuilding and the stuff I need is £50 ish for 10 metres.

I’ve not had a definite quote, but my mates mate is a sparky and he has told me to run the cables and he will connect and make sure it’s safe.

I’m thinking around £150 all in with me buying the cable, sockets and LED lights and whatever he needs to sign it off.

Can’t imagine him wanting £500 to sign it off…..

That’s a ridiculous amount of money, usual tradesmans trick of not really wanting the job, so quote massive and if it goes through, well tradesman is a winner.

Slat hoofage required.

That does sound like the “go away” price. Or maybe the “I can’t be arsed to even think about it so here is a random number” price.

Even if the driveway is to be replaced the cable still needs to be correctly sited and labelled before sign off. You’ll need to find a friendly electrician who is willing to let you do some of the donkey work with getting the cable or some conduit laid.

Just to add, the consumer unit may need extra work which could justify a higher price but it might be really simple. Ideally you’ll have a spare slot separate from the house RCDs so you can fit a dedicated RCBO for the external circuit.

I have thought about doing what I can the DIY route too.

Unfortunately though I don’t have the basic knowledge. I know I need a 63amp rated armoured cable, but on screwfix etc it doesn’t rate them that way, you can get different widths of cable too, and different cores. etc.

Unfortunately I don’t know any sparkys so I am sure they would just charge over the odds for certifying and work…

Consumer Unit

It’s not a ridiculous amount of money. There’s 2 days work there minimum plus more time if the site isn’t ready. Day rates vary but lets assume £190 a day. £360 + a day contingency = £570. Materials – lets say £100 and thats conservative – you’ve now got £670.

But why do we need contingency? – Fault on the consumer unit. Can’t readily get access through the wall. Customer decides he wants you to run round getting the bits for him, or supplies his own stuff which is unsuitable. Tons of things from a project management and technical perspective that needs to be covered otherwise you’re working for nothing.

Yes, there’s some crooks out there, but a job which looks simple can be more complex that it looks.

A quick example – connected up a kitchen extractor a year or so ago. How much? £25? £50? Split the ring, made the connection. Tested ring continuity – broken earth. Took a day and half to track it down to a picture pin through a cable. £25 and theres plenty who ignore it or wouldn’t test it in the first place.

Quality and commitment costs.

Rich.

rwamartin – but in essence you are saying you over price every job?

I get that things go wrong and that may mean additional cost.

Could you not say “It’s x amount (where x = reasonable cost) but will be y extra if it over runs or i encounter problems”?

DrP

sounds about right to me for a properly skilled and insured fitter. I would DIY it but would expect rather more than £100in materials and expect it to take me more than a couple of days to do properly

Does the quote include digging up the driveway, or had you other ideas of how the cable will get to the garage?

And what about the consumer unit in the garage, is that extra?

It’s not a ridiculous amount of money.

Agreed…I price electrical work all the time and would say you could probably get it a bit cheaper, but that is what a professional outfit would normally charge.

You don’t need to use armoured cable if you run it in a duct. Might be a saving?

Probably a bit steep but not surprised at the quote.

As with all jobs on your home…get at least three quotes..but don’t automatically go for the cheapest. Try to get references and recommendations. Check they have liability insurance and competence. Never hand over cash until work is completed to your satisfaction and in the case of electrical work a certificate for the works.

Seems like a ball ache but if you don’t already have a friendly tradesman you trust this is your only option.

Once you’ve gone through this process and found someone you trust and are happy to have them work on your home, look after them and use them again. They may be able to put you in touch with other trades when you need something else doing.

For reference I’m a electrician but mainly do commercial and industrial. Good luck.

You don’t need to use armoured cable if you run it in a duct. Might be a saving?

Cabling is quite cheap (relative) should be less than £50. You can buy a 25m role from screwfix for £50 !

Colster – I know what you mean, unfortunately we don’t know any local electricians, and are just having to pick at random!

I love threads like this. On a forum where many people are more than happy to spend thousands of pounds on bikes that offer very little if any advantage (for their particular needs) over ones costing £500 or so, and are often only so expensive because of overinflated prices on cheaply made mass-produced goods, expensive because people then ‘believe’ they possess something that elevates them above the common herd. But, when it comes to having to have work done (that they generaly can’t do themselves) by someone who’s paid for themselves to get trained and the necessary qualifications in order to be able to do work that can legally be signed off in order to make it safe from potential hazards such as fires etc, and to satisfy H+S regulations, insurers etc, those same people want it done for peanuts! 😆

Price of everything, value of nothing.

High, but doesn’t seem ridiculous. I think we paid gbp130 per socket, plus gbp300 for a new consumer unit when we were adding new sockets to our house. So if he’s charging around that I guess that’s:

2 sockets
1 lighswitch
1 light fitting
at 130 each is 520, plus laying the cable makes about 700?

I’ve DIY’d a shed before, but if you don’t know how to size cable then it’s probably beyond you without doing a lot of reading. You can’t just buy 63A cable, it’s sold by cross sectional area, a 1m ’16A’ cable would be a lot thinner than say a 25m ’16A’ cable, because the calculation works on a maximum voltage drop (i.e. resistance) to the socket. Then there’s issues like earthing the garage, if you have a water supply to it, then that may need bonding to the houses earth. i.e. it’s not just a case of running an extension lead out there, cutting the end off and wiring it into the spare rcd.

Clodhopper – The reason for the post was to ask if it was a reasonable amount to be charged. It sounds like it might just be the top end of reasonable.

However, to be fair does seam a bloody good daily rate. Mrs FD saves peoples lives for a job, and mends them when they go wrong. If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

However, to be fair does seam a bloody good daily rate. Mrs FD saves peoples lives for a job, and mends them when they go wrong. If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

But does she have to spend one day a week unpaid going around looking for people lives to save, telling them how much it’ll cost, then waiting to see if they go and ask another professional who might charge less or lie on his tax return, or maybe they’ll decide to see if they an do it themselves? Or have to pay for all her scalpels and thermometers and own ambulance out of her day rate?

I don’t want this to descend in to something it should not be, but believe me the costs of doing her job every year is in the multiple of £1,000’s. If she was to become self employed that would raise to greater than £10,000

FunkyDunc; not having a go at you personally. Just at the general ‘why should menial tradespeople get a decent rate of pay’ type attitude that is evident on this and many threads like it. I wonder if those same people would happily do their own jobs for a lot less money…

As for material costs; have you factored in the time spend travelling to and from the suppliers? Vehicle/transportation costs? What about personal running costs; cost of tools and equipment, insurance, etc? There can be a lot of hidden costs that the customer just doesn’t see.

As for ‘mates rates’; I had a new socket fitted (just running a spur off an existing one) by a mate recently. I could easily have handled the actual job, I just didn’t want the hassle and stress. He came with all his stuff and voltage meters etc, did the job in far less time than I would have (because he’s far more skilled and experienced), and most importantly, it’s all fully signed off according to legal requirements etc. It was a relatively easy job that took him half a day (including him fixing up the holes ready for painting over, which I hadn’t expected). I actually had to insist on paying him MORE than what he asked for, because it was so ridiculously cheap! The VALUE to us, having an experienced professional do all the work and for us to not have to worry about it at all, was more than what he charged us. He’ll be doing any future work for us, and almost certainly for friends who we’ll recommend him to.

He did inadvertently pinch my hammer though, so I might have to dock his fee next time. 😆

One of my general rules is never to work for friends or family. They expect something for nothing and don’t understand the implications, lost proper work time, background costs and so on. If I have friends do work work me I’m happy to pay them what they’re due and only expect a totally honest job 🙂

Funkydunc – you’re confusing cost with pay

I reckon you’ll find she actually costs a fortune – add in all the benefits, cost of employment and then the location she’s working.

And for this job the Govt is making the most ‘profit’ 🙂

FunkyDunc; not having a go at you personally. Just at the general ‘why should menial tradespeople get a decent rate of pay’ type attitude that is evident on this and many threads like it.

If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

Self-employment often means no paid 21 days holiday a year, no paid sick leave, no paid maternity/paternity, no pension, days quoting for work/doing paperwork which don’t bring money in, plenty of cancelled jobs meaning days without work etc – and the hidden costs mentioned above.

A ‘high’ day rate looks a lot lower when you spread it over a year.

(Edit – Sorry, basically irrelevant to the question about the electrical work. Guess who’s gone self-employed and is struggling with getting enough work at the moment!)

If you’re not going to be running high load appliances from your socket, consider one of these kits.

http://www.splashbox.co.uk/shop/products.asp?c=63

It’s not a case of overpricing jobs. Its a case of taking a considered view as to what it might involve, the risks associated with it and come up with a price that will ensure that you make an acceptable profit on the job in question and your working year overall. Fixed price work is a gamble for both parties. For me, I might get hit with problems that leave me out of pocket. I need to mitigate that risk but that to some extent means me loading the price of the job. I can’t factor in a massive amount as I’d be uncompetitive but I need to add something. The customer gets a known price but it might end up more than if I’d done it time and materials.

One of the problems is that tradespeople are often seen to be “crooks”. And, to be fair, there are some that are. There are also some that are poor businessmen that will undersell their skills which depresses the market and makes the true cost of providing quality service difficult to cover. However, putting the boot on the other foot so to speak, customers can make it difficult for us. I have lost count of the times I’ve turned up on site ready to do a job to find the customer isn’t ready for us – carpenter not finished. Plumber is on site and in our way so we can’t work. If I want to make a reasonable living, covering my expenses, pay the mortgage and afford a couple of weeks off with the family I’m going to need at least 4 days a week at my day rate. If I call off a job because the customer isn’t ready or I need to do unplanned work I’ll be struggling to make up the shortfall. Couple that with non chargeable activities such as doing estimates (some of which are never going to materialise as paying work), office activities, certification etc and you’re soon on less than minimum wage.

Obviously I can’t and won’t justify overcharging or not offering a good standard of quality and customer service, I just think that it’s too easy to say that something is expensive when we’re not always in a position to know quite what is involved in the actual job.

From an electrical point of view it’s quite easy for people to say “I can make that work”. Yes, it is easy to get something up and running – fundamentally it’s just 2 conductors and an earth. However, I’ve always said that I’m not in the business of making it work, my business is to make it not work. By that I mean that when a fault occurs it stops working in a safe and graceful manner; not with smoke, flames and the risk of shock to the user. There’s a number of factors in the OPs job that need to be considered if it’s to be safe and to the regs. The OP should be looking to ask what the electrician is going to do for the money, not necessarily just the price and make his choice on that.

If he’s not sure, I’d be pleased to offer my view on what questions he should be asking to help make that decision.

Rich.

If you’re not going to be running high load appliances from your socket, consider one of these kits.

From my very limited knowledge I wouldn’t use a kit like that. I doubt it could take the load.

I doubt it could take the load.

It just a fancy 13A extension lead…

2 days work my arse, it’s a 4 hour job max. I’ve wired a couple of outdoor buildings with the FIL, and he’s not even a spark, he’s a tiffy. Anyone taking 2 days to do that is at it.

2 days work my arse, it’s a 4 hour job max. I’ve wired a couple of outdoor buildings with the FIL, and he’s not even a spark, he’s a tiffy. Anyone taking 2 days to do that is at it.

Ok. List the tasks you’d do in your 4 hours, the decisions you’d make in doing it and the materials you’ll be using.

I’ll do the same and we can compare what the differences are.

Also, give the OP a price for the work including materials. Again, I’ll do the same.

Rich.

I love threads like this. On a forum where many people are more than happy to spend thousands of pounds on bikes that offer very little if any advantage (for their particular needs) over ones costing £500

…and that’s why I would just run an extension lead out the window to the shed! Or maybe even drill a hole in the external house wall and thread cable through there and plug in!

I build my bikes up from cheap/sale/2nd hand goods….£000s did you say?!?!

As said above – a self employed person does well if they get paid for 2 out of 3 hours worked and then you have to also account for holidays and sick leave. (28 days minimum btw)

so a self employed daily rate of £200 is really only worth a fully employed day rate of around £120 or less

I pay tradesmen more per day than I get paid as a healthcare worker in a stressful and worthwhile job – why? because I recognise this

(28 days minimum btw)

if you’re self employed there is no min (or max) for hols / sick days etc.

Pop along to our local seafront on a windy day and you’ll see why the tradesmen need to charge so much and are so hard to get hold of…t5s and windsurfing/kitesurfing gear don’t come cheap 😉

It’s literally like a page out of checkatrade there at present!!!

DrP

(all made in jest..keep your knickers on!)

To put the issue in another context, I trust VW to service my T5, but I wouldn’t want one of their mechanics, as good as they are, checking my prostate. 😉

They would probably do s better job on your prostrate than your T5

I trust VW to service my T5, but I wouldn’t want one of their mechanics, as good as they are, checking my prostate.

When you get the bill for the T5 service, you’ll find they have dealt with your prostate at the same time. At least it will feel like it.

Do I need to put my rates up? Alternatively I could add another day on FunkyDunc’s job….

<sucks teeth>
<scratches head>

Depends – I’m sure his installation falls some way short of current regs. 🙂

Depends – I’m sure his installation falls some way short of current regs

Maybe. I’ll check with nobeerinthefridge’s FIL….

I’ve recently been asked to quote for supply and fit some skirting, architrave, 8 doors, door-furniture etc..
Phone call
Site visit
Measure up
Leave door and furniture catalogue.
She doesn’t know what skirting so can i bring some samples around.
Take samples
She’s decided which doors so can I quote..
No doors in the style she likes in the size needed so phonecalls, Internet etc..
She calls and actually likes a different door..again I have to search for a supplier for the size..phone her up with a price and she says can we do the first doors she liked and change the linings….

You see where this is going..5 hrs in, petrol costs, phonecalls and I haven’t got the job yet..