We already have a party in power that didn’t gather a majority of the vote, why would a bloc that did be any worse? How do you think PR works?

Because we don’t have a history of PR and the British public has no real understanding of it, that article quite rightly points out that if a minority party forms a government then it’s legitimacy will be called into question.

What is annoying me about this election is that it is showing that the first past the post system is just not working. For example the SNP will get less than 5% of the total UK vote but get 40 odd seats and a major say in the next government just because all of the people voting for them are living in the same place. Whereas on the other hand UKIP may have 3 time the amount of people voting for them but get fewer than 5 seats and absolutely on influence in the next parliament which may be a good thing in the end, but we are still not getting the government we voted for.

What is annoying me about this election is that it is showing that the first past the post system is just not working. For example the SNP will get less than 5% of the total UK vote but get 40 odd seats and a major say in the next government just because all of the people voting for them are living in the same place. Whereas on the other hand UKIP may have 3 time the amount of people voting for them but get fewer than 5 seats and absolutely on influence in the next parliament which may be a good thing in the end, but we are still not getting the government we voted for.

Good point, I was all in favour of FPTP when we had two main parties and one other, but the current mechanism utterly falls apart with nationalist parties get tiny numbers of votes but focussed on specific constituencies.

…and on current figures UKIP aren’t on for five seats. As things stand their whopping 15pc of the vote gets them 1-2 seats!

ftpt has delieveed us a few supposedly ‘majority’ governments which by quirk of the distribition of votes still actually ‘lost’ the election in terms of sheer numbers of votes versus what the party that ended up on opposition got. This has benefited/bolloxed it up for both labour and conservatve governments over the years.

IMHO it is sad that it will take two hung parliaments in a row and a failed av referendum before westminster even thinks again about the ridiculousness of this. I suppose the barriers to this are that the only parties that would benefit from such electoral reform are minor national parties who put up candidates in as many places as they can ie Green and UKIP. Or I suppose labour and the conservatves could be interested in it in terms of the appaling representation they have/will have in Scotland and Nothern Ireland in a month’s time. :/

For example the SNP will get less than 5% of the total UK vote but get 40 odd seats and a major say in the next government just because all of the people voting for them are living in the same place.

It is looking like they’ll get 45% or so of the vote across the areas that they’re standing in. In any reasonable PR system they’d still get loads of seats because only the truly insane would just average the votes across the whole country and not include any regional element.

but we are still not getting the government we voted for.

Typically 35-40% gets you a party a majority, so it’d be very rate that the majority of voters get the government they voted for.

Hang on. Labour aren’t going to deal with SNP are they? Or had Ed changed his mind? Or doesn’t he know yet?

Both parties (Labour/SNP) have ruled out a coalition with each other so that can’t happen (without the electorate having been misled/lied to). However some kind of voting support arrangement hasn’t been discounted.

Oh come onon

We all know pre- election pledges ain’t worth jack, No top down reorganization of the NHS, no increase in tuition fees, I believe Ed’s no deal with the SNP as much as I believe gove’s no deal with ukip interview earlier today, the lot of em would sell their own mums to cling on to a not more power

Both parties (Labour/SNP) have ruled out a coalition with each other so that can’t happen

😀

As the FT noted this week, this a profession where

the electorate having been misled/lied to

Is essentially accepted, at least for the period in power.

Ah yes I remember now. Can’t trust a word they say, but somehow we seem to think we can trust them to run the country for us.

Forming a government consisting of an alliance which has been explicitly ruled out in the election campaign is a different ball game to policy implementation (or lack of) IMO.

Wonder what Her Maj would have to say if Ed went to visit with that proposal 🙂

The lure of power and it’s trappings will outweigh any pledge made in the heat of battle. You can bet your mortgage on that one.

The big advantage of the SNP being for Scottish independence is that they’re not interested in getting nice ministerial limos at Westminster – they’re interested in getting the best deal for Scotland, not in running the rest of the UK. They’re unlikely to fall into the trap the Lib Dems did, being tempted by power and having to keep Middle England happy.

Nope, no interest at all in the trappings of power, eh Ben

http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/politics/salmond-s-5k-bill-for-luxury-limos-1.148728

😆

Taxpayer funded Tartan trews all round!

Bit more legit than a £1600 duck pond, or £3000 on having a moat cleared, or the £22000 on house and stable cleaning….

Whoever the SNP vote with will have a majority out of the two big parties. Unless they do a deal with Red or Blue party there will simply need to be another election, in which the public will know only a Red or Blue vote will break the stalemate. They can’t support the blue party so that leaves a deal with the Red party as the only option, even if Ed has to resign.

If the SNP abstain from everything they’re handing power to the Blue Party which isn’t going to be popular at home.

Seems to me that instead of complaining about cuts, the SNP are going to be making them.

Unless there’s a grand coalition which, the more I think about it, seems a superb solution to the whole problem from the country’s POV.

Seems to me that instead of complaining about cuts, the SNP are going to be making them.

Have you not read the manifesto?!? 😉 This is the party of fiscal responsibility (sic) – you know: the ones whose desperation earlier led to argument (sorry BS) for corporation tax wars while raising spending, default on borrowings, having no central bank etc.

Ben, that last quote was another for the album.

grand coalition which, the more I think about it, seems a superb solution to the whole problem from the country’s POV.

Well, if you’re effectively going to admit that our democracy is broken, may as well just save the messing about and go for a dictatorship. If voting bears little or no relation to who gets into government, then that’s what we’ve got.

What’s hilarious is the big parties and right-wing media suddenly realising that FPTP isn’t representative, and getting all whiney because UKIP won’t get many seats.

This is the party of fiscal responsibility (sic) – you know: the ones whose desperation earlier led to argument (sorry BS) for corporation tax wars while raising spending, default on borrowings, having no central bank etc.

I might be wrong, but I strongly suspect on day 1 in the office a civil servant who actually understands the issues will explain to the minister *why* continuation of the existing policy is the only feasable option and the SNP will bow to the inevitable and vote with a Labour Party to carry on with the pain. I just don’t think politicians have any freedom to act they are slaves to circumstance. (and the evidence of that is that all the oter European Countries have gone down the austerity route, including the die-hard socialist ones.)

Well, if you’re effectively going to admit that our democracy is broken, may as well just save the messing about and go for a dictatorship.

A benign dictatorship would suit me fine. Democracy is badly flawed because we all just vote for our own short term gain. A party arguing for population control & massive reduction in the amount of fossil fuels/mineral/resources we use for the good of future genrations is not going to get in to office, yet these thing are clearly necessary.

Of course OOB – that’s the lessons from the LDs. You can promise the earth in opposition, then you have to govern and make real decisions instead of selling candy floss. But faced with this reality, the SNP will be smart and use this to exert much greater concessions from our new “I’m strong” leader!

Ben, you guys love to complain about democracy and yet when we have votes in independence and electoral reform you seem quite reluctant to accept the results. The vote on electoral reform was a margin of around 2:1 if I recall correctly. The democracy isn’t working argument is usually a bluff for my side hasn’t won and I really don’t like it!!

Of course OOB – that’s the lessons from the LDs.

Totally agree. It’s also making me smile that as Blue Party realize they won’t be in office they’re starting to make utterly unfunded promises (13.7 billion’s worth.)

Can’t fault the logic – they probably won’t have to do it, but if they do better to be in the embarrasing position of breaking pledges than in opposition.

Meanwhile poor old Ed is stuck with telling the truth. (Well, broadly the truth – his policies tweaking Non-dom status and zero hours contacts bear no relationship to his claims to be abolishing both.)

Ben, you guys love to complain about democracy and yet when we have votes in independence and electoral reform you seem quite reluctant to accept the results. The vote on electoral reform was a margin of around 2:1 if I recall correctly. The democracy isn’t working argument is usually a bluff for my side hasn’t won and I really don’t like it!!

One good thing about referendum’s with a yes/no question is that usually there is a clear winner i.e. getting over half the votes cast. That’s different from the currently electoral system in the UK where a party with maybe a 3rd of the vote is going to find themselves in power. If the shift away from Labour/Tory continues then it’s going to get a lot less likely that either will ever again be able to form a majority government and we may then see changes to the electoral system. It’ll also make a difference if any reform is supported by parties other irrelevant ones like the LibDems as well – that AV vote was never going to be anything other than a waste of time and money as there was never remotely enough support for it.

The Tory campaign is remarkable for its crassness. These are people who are accused of being ideological driven and yet there seems little evidence of any clear ideology *, backbone or sense of conviction. How much are they paying their strategist???

* can anyone define what Cameron stands for? He seems (absurdly IMO) ashamed of his past and unsure of his future. The conviction of all politicians seems to be driven by “do what is required to cling to power”, that’s the end game pure and simple.

Meanwhile poor old Ed is stuck with telling the truth.

Sorry I missed the bit with the details in it! 😉

Ben, you guys love to complain about democracy and yet when we have votes in independence and electoral reform you seem quite reluctant to accept the results.

When have I been reluctant to accept the referendum result? It was a simple yes/no question, it was no, and I don’t suscribe to any conspiracy theories.

The Tory campaign is remarkable for its crassness. These are people who are accused of being ideological driven and yet there seems little evidence of any clear ideology *, backbone or sense of conviction. How much are they paying their strategist???
* can anyone define what Cameron stands for? He seems (absurdly IMO) ashamed of his past and unsure of his future. The conviction of all politicians seems to be driven by “do what is required to cling to power”, that’s the end game pure and simple.

I’m no lover of ideology but shameless chasing of undecided votes with misleading policy descriptions and outright lies annoys the hell out of me too. Feels to me more like the red party did slightly more of it to start with but now they know only a miracle from saving them the blue party have pulled out all the stops.

I think a big part of the problem is (if wikipedia is to be believed) ‘limited information voters’ are a big proportion of the undecided voters and the message must appeal to them first and foremost.