Perfect topic for summer this I know.

Anyway, I’m thinking of getting a new road frame and question I have is, is it better to get one with mudguard mounts, or are the racerblade ones just/nearly as good?

Also do you need deep drop brakes for racerblade style guards?

proper guards are better. You don’t need deep drop brakes for race blade/crud ones.

I had the crud ones (mk2) on last winter and they work fairly well but they wouldn’t be my choice on a commuting bike or something I was using for more than a couple of hours on a Sunday morning – a bit flimsy tbh. SKS Raceblades are more secure but give less coverage.

You don’t necessarily need mounts, just enough clearance between frame and forks and guards.

Bear in mind that you’ll tend to get less ‘racey’ geometry with bikes designed to take guards too if that’s an issue for you.

Thanks, the geometry is bit of an issue too, Engima do the beautiful Esprit without mounts or the still nice but less racey Etape with them.

I use the raceblade longs on my commuter which is tightish clearance, work fine, not really much difference to a full guard

I killed a set of raceblade longs last winter, they took longer to die than the cruds but a few thousand miles of Yorkshire potholes still did for them (yes they were installed and set up right). I’ll be sorting myself out with a proper winter frame and real guards when I start road riding again. I’d say if you’re doing even slightly serious miles get the real thing if you can.

Fitted some Crud Roadracer MKII this winter and they have been faultless.

They have probably only done 1000 miles but still holding up. Was amazed how dry my bum/feet were after my first wet ride.

I will however make sure my next road bike takes proper guards as despite holding up well, the thought that they are about to fall off/disintegrate are never far from my mind.

It sounds like your bigger quandry is what kind of bike you actually want. Do you want a ‘race’ bike or would you be just as happy with an all rounder?

The question is vexed because unless you really are going to race, you don’t actually need a dedicated race bike but almost certainly you will want one. I know I did, hence I have two bikes; one I could race on and ride hard generally when it’s fine and another I commute on and ride when it’s wet.

As others have said, if you need/want a bike to ride in the wet with mudguards, then full guards are a lot better but they are a faff to fit and once they’re on, you don’t really want to be taking them off.

I have used these:

They were OK but they definitely don’t do as good a protection job as full guards and they mark your frame and fork where they rub unless you tape up first. They are very quick to fit though so it’s practical to run them only when you need them.

If you got a nice frame from Enigma and wanted to keep the bike looking lush but still have full guards, you could contact Adrian Bedford and get a set of these:

It sounds like your bigger quandry is what kind of bike you actually want

Very astute sir.

I want a shiny racing orientated frame that fits 28 tyres with a horizontal top tube. I don’t particularly want to run deep drop brakes. It would be a bonus if I could add guards to it, without or without fittings.

Those carbon guards are a thing of beauty.

If you want ti, racey geometry and guards have you considered the Kinesis Gran Fondo Ti?

It’s what I’m planning to get myself with my golden handshake next year!

I’ve the Crud 2’s.

They provide really good coverage, fit well, but are way too fragile.
They just keep falling to bits and spares are very expensive now.

Next time the shonky, overpriced, injection moulded toss randomly explodes, I’m going to burn them, whilst doing a little dance.

Proper mudguards rule, but are a pain in the arse when taking your bike in the car.

I reckon raceblade type guards are about 90% as good as ‘proper’ guards. I’m certainly happy enough with them

Crud 2s are as good as you’ll get with tight geo but as above, fragile. They are not so deep either so any side wind blows the water out of the guard onto your feet.

I have a set of crud2 waiting to go in the bin. couldnt ever quite get them set up right and if I did it wouldnt last long.

raceblade XL’s have been great, really quick to take on/off.

FWIW, with some judicious cutting of the guards around the brakes, you can fit full mudguards to pretty much any full on race bike (with p-clips if necessary)

Crud Raceguards have always been a bit (s)hit and miss.
I had more luck with Raceblades but they need a bit of manual intervention now and then to adjust and avoid rubbing.
The front guard is also not quite long enough to prevent your feet from spray and the rear guard doesn’t protect the front mech and chainrings from road spray.
A road bike with full guards is the best way to go in my experience.
Its a lot less pfaff, better clearances and that extra protection and sturdiness which full guards provide is heaven in the winter months.

Sks race blades here. I extended the front guard to within about 3 inches of the floor with a spare bit of crud road racer guards that had broke.
Stops water flicking from guards onto feet now.

Kinesis Gran Fondo Ti v2, bluemels … job done … 🙂

I ended up getting some Topeak Defender clip on mud guards this year.

Not sure i’ve got them set-up 100% as they do rattle a bit, but haven’t been bothered to have another go at setting them up.

They are massively better than no mud guards and can be fitted in a couple of mins. But, not as good clearance as a full mud guard, obviously.

The Kinesis GT is looking very good as it meets the criteria except the horizontal top tube.

Hoping to find a dealer in the Brighton area that has one in that I can look at when I’m back in the UK next week.

I want a shiny racing orientated frame that fits 28 tyres with a horizontal top tube. I don’t particularly want to run deep drop brakes. It would be a bonus if I could add guards to it, without or without fittings.

Cool, you do know what you want then, so it’s just a matter of identifying what frames fit that bill and deciding which one you like the most.

I have the pure race version of this:

…which means mine has barely enough clearance for 25c tyres let alone 28c and guards. The geometry of the version pictured above is a little slacker at the head tube but to be honest, unless you’re racing crit’s and need a bike that carves corners like those super short skis you see people using, you won’t feel the difference between a bike with a 72degree versus 73degree head angle. It’s more in the heart than then head, i.e. in my heart I notice the difference because I know it’s not really a race bike, but my head doesn’t really care.

The Condor is now quite pricey (I got mine for £1800 before the pumped the price up) but it is lovely and has plenty of stiffness but still very comfortable. It takes full guards but I think it does require deep drop brakes. I agree this is a pain but only because it limits your choice of caliper somewhat. Again, that’s an aesthetic ‘heart’ problem because in reality, if you buy the higher quality Shimano or TRP (Condor do an own brand TRP deep drop caliper) brake and fit Swiss Stop pads to them, you’ll have 95% of thebraking performance you’d otherwise be able to get.

I really like the Engimas and the Kinesis and agree that on the brief you’ve given, a titanium frameset does seem to be the most obvious choice. The Enigma would give you the option of going full custom, which wile quite a bit extra spend, would mean you get it just as you want it (so you could have the horizontal top tube with eyelets and likely spec it to take regular drop calipers).

But here’s a left field suggestion; have you considered a Trek Domane? You can get a light, stiff and very comfortable carbon frame that has very neatly integrated eyelets for mudguards and takes regular drop brakes. The eyelets are so well integrated you’ll struggle to see them at a casual glance.