So i’ve just brought/ordered the 810 performance map bundle, with the training modes it can provide, with the live tracking is it really worth the money? anybody had any issues?

As cheaky as it is am i right in thinking that the 1:50K os great britain map package that garmin sells ( for a huge £200 😯 ) is just a file on an SD card? Cant this just be brought on ebay or copied off a fellow egde 810 user 😉

Cant this just be brought on ebay or copied off a fellow egde 810 user

There is DRM to prevent copying the files.

I had an issue with it turning off when I first got it, did the update and works perfectly now.

Like mine and use it 3/4 times a week.

The maps are available from certain pirate flavoured sites.

Allegedly.

you are talking about theft and peoples (including some of your fellow mountain bikers) livelihoods depend on revenue generated from the sale of this data. So next time your using pirated OS data remember that.

I thought there would be something to stop copying of files 🙁 . But I have also had a lot of confusion on eBay with sd cards with maps, I’m looking to buy the uk maps but don’t really wanna pay the full £200 if I don’t have to!

you are talking about theft and peoples (including some of your fellow mountain bikers) livelihoods depend on revenue generated from the sale of this data. So next time your using pirated OS data remember that.

I don’t want to steal off anyone, but £200 for a map!
It’s bad enough that the garmin itself cost so much!

Surely you don’t need the entire UK? Just buy the maps you need. Or use the free OSM maps. They are very good IMO.
Shame you missed the 30% discount before chrimbo, you would have had more money for maps then!

Got the free open street map ones loaded on mine and they are very good if you just use it on the road.

As has been said though, if you need OS ones just buy the tiles you need. I think you can buy and download them all from the garmin site.

Whats the livetracking bit ?

Ioffer.com £20.94 for the full uk map

Whats the livetracking bit ?

You can pair it to a smartphone running the garmin app, which will then upload your position periodically, allowing someone to view your position online.

Cheapest way to buy the maps is part of a bundle, looking at evans it would have been only an extra £10 to go from the performance to the ultimate performance bundle.

Surely you don’t need the entire UK? Just buy the maps you need. Or use the free OSM maps.
Shame you missed the 30% discount before chrimbo, you would have had more money for maps then!

I want to do wc2c this year, would have just brought the Wales/Southern England but it’s still £120 so I figure if I have to buy it from them then I may as well get it all, maybe take a trip up Scotland sometime to use it.

My funds wouldn’t allow the purchase when the discount was applied 😈
But Amazon saved me £100 off the garmin price

If it’s on road just use the free OSM ones, they really are very good.

I ride mostly off road 🙁

DT78…

Whatever it may be, it’s not theft. Stealing something entails depriving someone of that thing.

The morality and the rights and wrongs of it are another matter altogether, but it is not now, and won’t ever be, theft.

WRT to the depriving Garmin of their money – maybe if they didn’t hobble the product with irritating DRM and charge an outrageous fee for it (£200 stand alone versus £10 when bought with hardware) people might not seek out pirate versions of the maps.

Time and time again, it’s been demonstrated that people will pay for stuff when it a. represents value and b. when the product purchased isn’t stupidly limited, and doesn’t operate on the principle that you’re fundamentally dishonest.

Lots of people now happily pay for music again, but weren’t so keen back in the day when the record industry tried to force a “buy the music for each device you play it on – 5 devices, pay 5 times” model (lovingly backed by the halfwit Rundgren).

Ironically, it’s the music pirates you have to thank for the DRM free mp3 purchases you enjoy today – with no SDMI or CD based malware kicking around (see Sony as a prime example of targeting paying customers and treating them like criminals by illegally installing hardware breaking malware on peoples PC’s)

I use back country navigator on Android and use their reccommended free MPs from multimap UK OS Explorer. Funny thing is they look just like OS maps to me…

Not to be harsh on Garmin but I suspect it might be the terms of their licence to use the ordnance survey maps. All the vendors prices of standalone maps are in the same area.
What would be useful if like their car satnavs they gave you one free update.

you are talking about theft and peoples (including some of your fellow mountain bikers) livelihoods depend on revenue generated from the sale of this data. So next time your using pirated OS data remember that.

A lad in our club brought a Garmin on the basis that he could use the pirated maps that someone else had. Does this now mean Garmin are £200 better off due to piracy.?

Okay we want to get technical with legal terms. Yes it is not theft in the formal definition, it is piracy. And it’s not victimless.

As for pricing, yes £200 is alot for your average person. I do not know how the price is worked out but it isn’t cheap creating and maintaining mapping. And as others have pointed out bundled with the device it is pretty reasonable.

I chose to use open streetmap on my garmin, this is free and legal. I did not choose to get ripped off copy of OS data even though I know where and how.

It isn’t on. But of course if you are happy to be selfish and openly promote piracy online then there is nothing illegal about that.

The free maps are much better than the paid ones anyway.
http://openmtbmap.org/
The OS maps are painfully slow when scrolling, the OSM ones are great at just about everything. And they’re FREE 🙂

DT78..

It’s not getting technical with legal terms – it’s simply not theft. Unless you wish to redefine the word.

As for the cost of mapping? It’s expensive to maintain unless it’s bought with hardware? Then it’s cheap? Buying the Garmin hardware a week before buying the map makes the data more expensive? That’s hardly a convincing argument in favour of Garmin – rather it looks like they’re trying to cash in on people who have already bought their hardware.

The issue is – If the OP downloads the pirate version, not only does he get it cheaper, but it also comes without DRM that restricts the functionality and utility. Ultimately, it’s not me promoting piracy – it’s Garmin. rip off prices and pointless restrictions do that better than endless forum posts.

I don’t use Garmin hardware – and I also don’t use pirate software of any sort. What I like I buy and where prices are too much, I’ll use freeware alternatives. Equally, if others choose to kick against companies attempting to rip them off, I’m not going to cry.

Would be interesting to see if you’d pass a software audit though. Or if your mp3 collection is completely ‘clean’. 😉

I also happen to agree with you that open maps are a much better idea. Fits with my freeware ethos. 🙂

Ultimately, it’s not me promoting piracy – it’s Garmin. rip off prices and pointless restrictions do that better than endless forum posts.

this. What drove music piracy was the offensive prices the record companies charged for CDs (which were cheaper to produce than cassettes, not sure about compared to vinyl). Make legit product good value and people buy it, rip them off and they wont. When your product is so expensive I’d suggest piracy doesnt affect sales of that product – the OP as an example cannot afford/justify the cost so will use either pirate or free open-source, but won’t pay Garmin’s prices. Same goes for fake designer goods; the people buying cheap D+G knock-off hand bags would never consider buying a genuine one.

Ive got an Etrex20 and recently bought an 800 for my better half, we’ve got OSM maps as I am not a fan of personally committing piracy, but I don’t judge others that do when Garmin attempt to profiteer from their users with such expensive mapping. I had no intention of buying Garmin’s offensively priced mapping and knew I would be using OSM before I bought the units. If there were no free/cheap alternative, I wouldnt have bought the units (see neilsonwheel’s clubmate).

Would be interesting to see if you’d pass a software audit though. Or if your mp3 collection is completely ‘clean’.

You’d be disappointed I actually use very little – spotify premium for music, lovefilm (soon to be netflicks) for movies, and an ipad / android phone/ps3. Virtually nothing on them. I certainly have nothing that infringes copyright or is pirated that I know of.

I don’t think raising the piracy debate is pointless on these threads. The more people pirate, the more pressure it puts on prices go up for the few that do pay what the company is asking. Vicious circle. It hurts the companies involved as it does hit revenue and those companies employees and families.

Anyways it is obviously Garmin’s pricing strategy rather than the cost of the map. You could argue the mapping is significantly discounted when bought with a device rather than overpriced when bought separate.

I believe it isn’t illegal to buy or use pirated data so it is down to whether the individual is happy with doing it. At some point in the future you might not have Garmin or OS.

If you want free maps use the Openstreetmap ones.

I think the way OS maps are distributed electronically needs revamping.

I own the GB collection of OS Landranger maps via Memory Map – and in that way I have contributed to OS’s cost of production once already. I’d struggle to now pay out again for the same maps so they can be compatible with a different device. I think there should be a system where you pay once to have the licensing rights for an area of map to OS. You then pay a fee to the relevant company (memory Map, Garmin etc) to use the map you have licence for via their software/device. That fee is to remunerate them for the inevitable work required to make that mapping work on their device.

As an aside – I’ve had an 810 since the christmas period using the 30% off deal. I was initially not that impressed but had a great ride on road with it at the weekend so now happier. I’d say its great for following a route that you have preplanned and downloaded. I’ve not used it much yet but getting it to autoroute to a postcode/poi is a nice feature on a bike computer but not one I can envisage using much unless in an area I really didn’t know as to be blunt I wouldn’t trust it to take me on a nice route. The most disappointing part for me is that I wouldn’t want to use it to plan a route manually ‘out in the field’ – the screen is simply too small with too poor a resolution to view enough detail when zoomed out far enough to make any meaningful navigation decisions. If I’m ever out on a planned route and decide I need to cut it short or alter it I’ll still be reaching for my iphone in my back pocket and the memory map app which is much, much better for that purpose.

the screen is simply too small with too poor a resolution to view enough detail when zoomed out far enough to make any meaningful navigation decisions. If I’m ever out on a planned route and decide I need to cut it short or alter it I’ll still be reaching for my iphone in my back pocket and the memory map app which is much, much better for that purpose.

It’s a real shame they didn’t improve the screen on the 810 as the resolution is frankly embarrassing when compared to a modern smartphone. Having said that it’s still a great bit of kit and the advantages of a standalone unit more than compensate that (for me) but it’s the reason I went for one of the heavily discounted 800s rather than paying the extra for the 810.

well an update for all, last night i was told that my Lbs have got these in for sale, so i canceled my amazon order and went up today to take a look, they had the 810 WITH maps for £479.99 so after looking on evans cycles and telling them about it i asked them to see if they could match the price, the boss came over and punched a few keys on the computer then left the lad to serve me. total cost after discount £407! all in.

£200 is crazy now, the OS dropped their map prices and you can get the whole of the UK at 1:25000 now on the satmap for £250, down from something like £2500

I have a Garmin 810 setting aside what maps and where you get them from, it has been a disappointment compared to using a smartphone with Viewranger maps… The resolution is poor, the screen response time is slow and overall it’s not met my expectation for what it cost. That said I like the none map stuff, it’s clear and works well but nothing that couldn’t be achieved for much less cost with a smart bike computer.

However the unit does work in all conditions, it’s been properly soaked, frozen, battered etc. well beyond what a phone would survive, so compromised? I would miss it if it packed up, but can’t help but think it could be so much better.