Blair and Brown gave everyone in the public sector a pay rise and in the EMA started paying providing travel expenses to allow children from poorer backgrounds to go to school continue onto 6th form education.

Fixed that for you. Is this your copy of the Express?

+1 what MSP said. German trade unions arent afraid of flexing their muscles and labour laws there can be hard to deal with. Somehow German business people, workers and the banks who lend to the enterprise find a way to muck together and make things work without the toys being thrown out of the cot.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with the character of the people, good eggs the Germans, (my second unfashionable statement for today) and the fact that the backbone of their economy isnt actually the big manufacturers like BMW or Siemens, its the medium to small sized manufacturers, the Mittelstand, who are often still family owned.

Exhibit A – The episode of Grand Designs where a couple in Surrey bought a pre-fab Huf Haus almost literally off the shelf in Germany, the guys arrived in their van with all the kit, knocked it together bang on schedule and waved cheerio. The British workmen they had to deal with werent quite so helpful.

.

Exhibit B another episode of grand designs the german flat roofing company turned up and left leaving a leaking roof so bad that had to be ripped up.

Hah I didnt see that one. Fairynuf.

Well if spending does not equal income and the growth of Georges masterplan did not work and the defecit has not beeen cut as much what would you cut some more? The omly alternative is to increase tax some more? If you tax some more would you tax the rich or the poor?

I’d increase tax where it would actually make a significant difference to the coffers – which doesn’t mean taxing the rich (doesn’t mean taxing the poor either – it’s not black and white).

#
I_did_dab – Member

Can somebody explain why growth is a good thing? I can’t help wondering on a finite planet with finite resources, how can everyone’s economy grow?

Well thats a whole ‘nother question. capitalism is built on continual growth. IMO a no growth society is essential – thats the dark green position but until we rearrange our economy away from capitalism then we need growth

Seriously? That old chestnut. What about all the extra money the government got (well above market expectations) when they sold the 3G licenses?

Not exactly an old chestnut is it?

He sold the gold for 6 times less than what its worth today.

I think an additional £13bn would come in handy for the UK right now!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/26/gdp-figures-economic-growth

Interesting analysis

Personally I think it has a lot to do with the character of the people, good eggs the Germans

Not entirely convinced it’s simply down to general ‘goodness’ (as if one whole nation were better than another). I’ve had so much sh*t and very little help from many Germans in the last 6 months.

I think it’s in the national psyche to remain focused on the task at hand though. Even at the expense of niceties like customer service or compassion…

TJ – Agreed. I think it is post WW2 consumer capitalism, based on planned obsolescence, that is particularly dependent on continual growth. I see no reason why you can’t have a stable market based economy.

Osborne (and the ONS) really shouldn’t talk about the impact of the weather, the wedding, and buying tickets because it only reiterates how fragile growth is.

edit – and Martha Kearney is owning him for it on Radio 4.

0.2% your aving a larf.. up or down you and i wont notice any difference what we do notice is our daily costs.. my gas and laccy deal ends in a week and prices will double almost from 15p per unit to 25 fro leccy and gas will more than double form 4p to 8.79 per unit. fuel having dipped slightly to 1.32 a litre is now back at 1.38 and thats with the euro countries freeing up reserves when that ends in sept? as for those not affected we all pay more for fuels.. those working for the govt have allegedly had zero pay rises but the school carpark is still full of discoveries and mercs check out how much your GP earns.. even Tesco just gave another minimum 2.5% increase to staff.
this govt needs to grow some and make some real cuts to the numbers it employs? how many teachers were laid off in july? how many fewer MP’s did we elect will we elect next time. my local council is privitising its housing stock and is taking on more people to maintain them as well as contracting out some maintenance services.. Cameron must cut more..

I think an additional £13bn would come in handy for the UK right now!

Indeed, but had we still got it, would we sell it now, or hang onto it wondering what it’s future value might rise to?

He sold the gold for 6 times less than what its worth today.

I think an additional £13bn would come in handy for the UK right now!

Well he sold it at an average of $275/oz [not your quoted $250] and it was estimated that his poor judgement/action cost the UK £2bn
His predecessor managed to spunk £3.3bn in a single day trying to keep the pound at a level with the Euro

The guardian seem to think it closer to £5Bn
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jan/08/economy-gordonbrown
Many others have stated it to be £6.6Bn

The guardian seem to think it closer to £5Bn

But that’s like saying the house I sold at the bottom of the market for £28k in 1989 cost me £100K as it’s now worth 128
Selling at the bottom of the market actually cost me around £4k

It’s far more like saying you sold your house in 2000 for £250k and in 2010 it would have been worth £1M.

Same difference TBH

Yeah maybe. There’s a fair point to be made that the gold market was (at the time) looking stable. GB couldn’t have known that the prices would rocket in the following 10 years. Just a bit of a bastard to have “lost” all of that money/gold.

Wunundred! 😀

cant see how the olympics could be supressing growth. It’s keeping me very busy indeed…

I’m alright Jack sod everyone else… 😐

The problem is no-one really knows what the answers are.

No, the problem is that the answers are staring us all in the face but no-one’s got the balls to actually come out and say that what we, as a society need to do is tackle the rampant greed which has seen a steep rise in the disparity of wealth in this country. Too few people taking too large a cut. Fat cats taking six, seven figure salaries while increasing numbers of people are finding it difficult just to get by.

There’s enough money to go round, it just needs to be distributed more fairly and evenly. But while there are people out there who think that owning a speedboat or holiday home abroad is more important than actually helping out those in their own communities, then we’ll continue with the same old crap that’s always existed….

But I deserve my speedboat because I work so much harder than anyone else no it’s true!

as in “me” and 30,000+ other people. ****.

Fred nails it again.

we’re all in it together?

Stoner; you bandy all sorts of figures and stats around, but you have no idea of the reality of the socioeconomic impact of the Olympics on an already deprived area of London. You chose to believe all the propaganda and spin, but you won’t actually get off your arse and have a look for yourself what’s really happening in this area. And then you call me a ****. How very intelligent.

Tell you what, if you fancy learning something, come down and I’ll take you to have a look round what’s happening here. We can go and have a chat with some of the thousands of small business owners who are going to be forced out of the area by all the new firms moving into the Westfield centre. Come and have a chat with some of the thousands of workers made redundant by the forced compulsory purchase orders of the land the companies they worked for owned. Some of the people forced from their homes because of the ‘redevelopment’ of the area. Come and see some of the local services which cater for some very vulnerable people, closed down because funds are being diverted into schemes that promote the Olympics. Meet some of the many thousands of workers on the site being paid just the minimum wage, who are then faced with huge accommodation costs.

Not to mention the massive environmental damage that has occured locally.

Or of course you can just stay safe behind your keyboard spouting crap. As long as you can buy a few more bottles of nice wine, eh?

So can anyone offer a balanced view as to what the actual impact of the Olympics is?

So can anyone offer a balanced view

On STW? Are you mad?

TO summarise: It costs us all a shed-load of money we can’t afford, some mega-rich corporate banking blokes get a nice jolly, West Ham get a new ground. We all pay for it for ever and if you really fancied it you could go and have a look round some rusting white elephants in saaaaaaaaarf laaaaaaaaardan.

George Osbourne is always warning us about the Greek economy, we seem to be hell-bent on repeating their Olympic folly. This is what a ‘legacy’ looks like

Are you mad?

Well I quite fancy going on Elfin’s sightseeing tour…

So can anyone offer a balanced view as to what the actual impact of the Olympics is?

The benefits will be outweighed by the costs. Socially and economically. But some people will profit immensely from it, at the expense of lots of others.

Same old same old.

Olympics – scotland is paying for a share of while getting none of the benefits.

it was an opportunity to get away from the overblown white elephant of the modern Olympics back to some sort of semblance of sense. Opportunity missed

Olympics – scotland everywhere except london is paying for a share of while getting none of the benefits.

FTFY TJ

The benefits will be outweighed by the costs

But has anyone done a complete 360 CBA (cost ben’s analysis) of it?

Not just the legacy but people like Stoner that are benefiting now. Looked at the impact on the local community that you speak of?
Assessed the benefit of Scotland not having to put up with being invaded by English holiday makers during it…

Well 0.2% may not be much but it has matched expectations and the market is pretty happy with it… stirling up 1/2 a US cent and over 1 cent against the euro.

Here’s the thing… and you are not going to like it one little bit.

You have to keep the market happy,

And that’s why there will not be a divergence from the budget cuts. One whiff of a change of heart on that and the UK will be smashed outta sight. You think you’re paying a lot for commodities now, how about 15% devaluation of stirling… oh and that nice floating rate mortgage at about 2% that will double before your eyes

Love him or loathe him Osbourne has done well at keeping the markets happy.

i know olympic sponsors maccy Ds are opening a special olympic sized outlet opposite the main venue, people can get jobs there ! 🙄

has anyone walked round the dilapidated olympic park in athens, its a ghost town of disintegrating buildings and overgrown carparks with most things padlocked up and a couple of outdoor basketball courts the only things in use

has anyone walked round the dilapidated olympic park in athens, its a ghost town of disintegrating buildings and overgrown carparks with most things padlocked up and a couple of outdoor basketball courts the only things in use

Nice underground though 🙂

Is the same true for other Olympic cities as it is for Athens?

The Greeks are hardly a bastion of common sense.

The markets are greedy and fickle, they are not interested in long term growth, just next months bonus, we actually need to start making economic decisions based on the needs of the majority of the country, not a few elitists sat in London offices.

Looked at the impact on the local community that you speak of?

Yes I have actually, have you? I actually live there, so have possibly slightly more insight about what’s actually going on than folk who get their information from propaganda in the media and that. Loads of ‘bread and circuses’ exercises going on to promote the ‘legacy’ of the games, but no actual proof or indication that it will be of any genuine benefit to the vast majority of people that live in this are. Millions being spent on junkets to attract corporate sponsors.

Just one example of this is in housing. A while ago I met a young woman with a little girl who is blind. They’d bin pushed from one form of ‘temporary accommodation’ to another, with no permanent home for them in sight for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, loads of blocks of flats are going up, with the promise of ‘affordable’ housing for ‘locals’. Now, you don’t need to be a genius to work out that those homes won’t actually be affordable to most people living on lower than average incomes. And £250,000+ 1-bed flats aren’t really what families need.

So with all this wonderful ‘legacy’ stuff going on, why is that woman and her child, people in genuine need of a decent home, suffering they way they are? Aren’t we sposed to have a society that cares for those that need help?

It’s disgusting. What’s worse, is that many new developments are standing empty cos no-one’s got the money to buy the places. Entire blocks are being used to house people who need social housing, at incredible public expense, because the developers can’t sell them.

Ah well, at least we’ll have an nice velodrome and swimming pool eh? Cos that’s what people really need, not homes, education or healthcare…

Stoner’s gone a bit quiet, hasn’t he? Maybe he’s off topping up his Oyster Card for his impending visit to the East End…

pound doing well against the euro, do me a favour, considering the trouble the euro zone has had over the debt crisis the performance of the pound really shows what the markets (the Chinese) think of our economy

pound vs euro for the last 12 months only a 10% devaluation

Yes I have actually, have you?

Elfin – no need to be so agressive… my question is sparked out of interest. If I had done so, I wouldn’t need to ask it, would I?

I’ll read the rest of your post now.