Squirrel – Member
Klunkers > front suspension > full suspension > disk brakes > E assist. Evolution innit.

Evolution – right then – whats next?

Wonder what the heroes riders who like riding uphill would ride? Super light xc weapon to get to the top fast, or a super heavy POS to show how hard they are?

Kerley?

I use a rigid single speed, currently in the form of a fixed track bike that weighs around 7kg. I would like a down-lift sometimes as going 30+ mph on a lowish off road gearing has me spinning at 200rpm on mostly hard pack gravel with some softer bits which can be challenging…

That sounds super fun! Still, each to their own

I wonder how much erosion has been caused by mountain bikes (proper, pedally ones) evolving from the long stemmed steep angled rigid things of the 80’s into the 6″ FS models of today. These have opened it up to riders who previously wouldn’t have been able to access certain types of trails, or if they had would have been forced to mince-walk down them.

We should ban all gnarpoons, because they cause more erosion than proper old style mountain bikes.

In fact, I think it’s widely accepted that FS allows riders to ride farther faster by reducing the body discomfort of a rigid or hardtail. So rather than banning gnarpoons, all suspension should be banned, so only proper tough riders can do decent mileage.

Well, obviously then, cx bikes should be banned too, as their narrow tyres increase ground pressure.
Rigid, singlespeed fatbikes ftw.
😀

and also walkers with small feet.

Evolution – right then – whats next?

Return to the source, man.

Evolution – right then – whats next?

2018 specialized turbo levo.

Even solves any erosion whinges issues

ha ha Tomhoward – for once i agree with you 🙂

Just seen a man on a supermarket bike wearing a great big ruck sack.There was a red cable coming out of the backpack and connected to something on his bike
He wasn’t pedalling but he was was overtaking cars doing 30.
No registration plate, so not legal.

You saw an idiot

I’m with theotherjohnv on the suspension ban.

Took the toddler for a spin up on Haldon today, and at one point I was overtaken by a guy on a decent looking full-sus electric bike. He wasn’t pedalling 😉
When we got back to the hub he was at the cafe and I had a chat with him about the bike. Don’t worry I was really nice!
He was fully aware that it was illegal, and was a bit cagey about what he’d done, but said that he’d retro-fitted a throttle and bits he’d got online. He mentioned a forum where lots of people share info about hacking Ebikes – pedelecs.co.uk I think?
So if it’s that easy, I suspect a lot of people will do it, or have it done.

Klunkers > front suspension > full suspension > disk brakes > E assist. Evolution innit.

Y’see, I’d put it more like this:

People not wanting/able to ride uphill > bikes that are better at going down than up > uplift centres > e-assist bikes > electric motorbikes – after all, why even bother pedalling at all?

I’ve always suspected mountain biking lacked the ethical core of other outdoor pursuits such as rock climbing. It’s now official – it has jumped the ethical shark.

So if it’s that easy, I suspect a lot of people will do it, or have it done.

Just the same as most people drive over 30mph in 30 mph areas, a lot of people still use their phones, i.e. a lot of people break what they see as minor laws but they are breaking them none the less.

Did you report the owner?

People not wanting/able to ride uphill > bikes that are better at going down than up > uplift centres > e-assist bikes > electric motorbikes – after all, why even bother pedalling at all?

I’ve always suspected mountain biking lacked the ethical core of other outdoor pursuits such as rock climbing. It’s now official – it has jumped the ethical shark

I’d agree with that. On the other hand I think road biking does have an “ethical core” (Go on, flame away 👿 )

WGAS? More folk outdoors enjoying themselves is good.

“Ethical Core” – really?

ing down than up > uplift centres > e-assist bikes > electric motorbikes – after all, why even bother pedalling at all?

I’ve always suspected mountain biking lacked the ethical core of other outdoor pursuits such as rock climbing. It’s now official – it has jumped the ethical shark

Pretty much agree as well to a point. There are mtber’s who buy into the value of cycling being a wholly human powered activity. But there is a subset that has always viewed pedalling as an inconvenience. Emtb’s for them are a natural evolution. I just wish they could separate from main stream mtbing and go their own way.

Would take less than 30 seconds to derestrict mine.

Plenty folk have done it.

How ever realising that flying along at apeeds that the bike isnt really set up to handle constantly and that its my skin that will be lost on the road reminds me that yep the speed limits there for good reason. And its pedal assisted because i want the exercise but i want to recover from harder sessions but not succumb to the car.

Is it black and white through taxi?

Last saturday i rode up teide from puerto de la cruz on a road bike in 4 hrs today i rode my ebike to the shops in jeans and a t shirt to pick up breakfast. Should i have got changed into my cycling clothes and put on my spds to go to to the shops on a “real bike”? Should i have walked for 2hrs ?

He wasn’t pedalling but he was was overtaking cars doing 30.
No registration plate, so not legal.

And that had what impact on you?
People break much bigger laws than that all the time and no one seems to give a ****.
People getting sand in their vag over electric assist bikes is proper funny.
You must have nowt better to worry about. I suggest a dose of real life might sort you out. 😛

Is it black and white through taxi?

You’re right it isn’t, there will be people who cross over and do both. But the engine in a Emtb makes it different enough, for me anyway to regard it as something completely new. Nothing against engines I still race MX, but I’ll never put one on a bicycle unless it was purely for transportation.

I just wish they could separate from main stream mtbing and go their own way.

Wtf is “main stream mtbing”?

Wtf is “main stream mtbing”?

As you so politely asked. Riding a mtb that doesn’t have an engine. I presume your not stupid so it’s a surprise you couldn’t work that out yourself.

I presume your not stupid so it’s a surprise you couldn’t work that out yourself.

Well I know the difference between your and you’re so I’m not doing too badly thanks.

As a side note it does seem interesting that people commenting on this thread that are genuinely fast on a bike seem to not have a problem with legal ebikes.
But some people that as far as I’m aware are just plodders like the rest of us seem to have a big issue with them.
Maybe it’s an ego thing with some of the less robust of mind people.
I don’t own an Ebike and have never even ridden one BTW but can see how an Edownhill bike could be brilliant on the local DH trails with no uplift.

Well I know the difference between your and you’re so I’m not doing too badly thanks.

Everyone loves the grammar police 😆

Having spent the whole weekend riding my human powered bike on an overnight bivi adventure, I’ve had chance to reflect upon peoples comments & arguments on this thread.

I think the whole ‘additional erosion’ due to E-bikes is wrong. Electric motors are not powerful. What they have is buckets of torque – so if ridden correctly, i doubt they will cause more erosion.

However, the potential increase in bike traffic – especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones – such as the Surrey Hills – will take a battering

The main point of my thread was to highlight how someone with a e-bike could match or even exceed the climbing ability of Nick Craig – one of the best climbers in the UK

The secondary point was to highlight how the STW editors are pushing E-bikes so hard (daily Facebook feeds about e-bikes FFS), no doubt at the request of the industry who are desperate to drag every possible penny out of the UK riding community.

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction – and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

I fully agree that there is an important place for E-bikes to help people with disabilities get out and enjoy what we take for granted. I also believe that there is a real place for e-bikes for commuting or cargo moving duties – what an awesome way to reduce the number of cars, van or buses in the country.

But, for me, being a MTB enthusiast is all about getting out into nature, fully under my own steam and getting away from devices making life easy in every possible way. I spend every working day staring at a monitor or checking my phone – completely relying on all that stuff – however – bike time is all about nature, my fitness & judgement – things I have worked really hard for.

All the arguments I have read above from enthusiastic MTBers thinking these are a great idea because it allows them to go further. To me – rubbish – just get out & ride more. Strapping an electric motor to your bike to make it go faster or to get you up bigger climbs is turning the bike into a motor-bike – regardless if you need to pedal or not – the bike is now a motor-bike.

I know that i’ll never win this argument and some people just want to easier way to achieve things. Human nature on so many levels. So sad, but so true.

The genie is well and truly out of the bottle. People will ride them responsibly and people will ride them irresponsibly. I just really hope that it doesn’t impact the greater community of mountain biking or our very fortunate land access rights we enjoy in the UK.

Yep – I might be a luddite but I’ll keep my dignity, beliefs & fitness

Awaits a massive barrage of abuse!!! 🙂

Agreed! The whole, I can ride further, it’s no different….all bs.
When it boils down to it it’s all about sales of bikes.
TBH I was about to renew my lapsed ST sub, but the pushing of Ebikes is defo putting me off.

simondbarnes – Member

Wtf is “main stream mtbing”?

Riding penmachno within 2 weeks of rainfall

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction – and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

That bit I agree with as far as industry direction goes and this post will come back to me I’m sure as one day I expect I’ll be speccing up a production E-MTB.

But to balance that, ‘WTF is MTB now anyway’, as Simon pretty much already said up there. I don’t relate to Rampage, slopestyle or even Enduro that much either. I don’t see XC on an E-MTB as being any more further removed from what I mostly do than the ‘xtreme’ side of MTB. It’s a broad thing now. Whatever we’re riding I suspect most of us are a lot closer in attitudes or rewards gained than the differences in bikes could suggest, if not in fitness?

If so many people take to e-bikes for mtbing my boring old hardtail will become the equivalent of a singlespeed and therefore i will be a hipster and that’s something you really don’t want to see

jumped the ethical shark

I have struggled to find the words to describe what seems to me to be happening. These are magnificently silly words, and will do perfectly. I am adopting them.

🙂

However, the potential increase in bike traffic – especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones – such as the Surrey Hills – will take a battering

To those saying that ebikes are just mountain biking no difference, which in effect lumps ebikes and mountainbike together, don’t complain when others do the same thing. Imagine in the Surry Hills where the land is privately owned, and there’s a massive increase of damage caused by increased usage from ebikes. The Surry hills are a sensitive area, with lots of different conflicting priorities and uses, could it cope with double the erosion? Who will be blamed? The users who are anti MTB will use this as an opportunity to try to ban mountain bikes from the Surry Hills – ebikes and MTBs will be lumped together in the same category, just like all the advocates above are saying.

I see ebikes have already eroded the e from Surrey.

Is there any evidence that the number of ebikes will be the same as the number of other bikes equating to the “double the erosion” that you keep quoting?

Is there any evidence of bikes being banned because of erosion concerns?

What you are worrying about is more people enjoying the outdoors and if this is your concern then I suggest killing people would be a far better option.

I think the whole ‘additional erosion’ due to E-bikes is wrong. Electric motors are not powerful. What they have is buckets of torque – so if ridden correctly, i doubt they will cause more erosion.

However, the potential increase in bike traffic – especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones – such as the Surrey Hills – will take a battering

Perhaps also use of chipped, or unrestricted ebikes (effectively motorbikes) will increase over time – people wont be able to resist and this will increase erosion.

The secondary point was to highlight how the STW editors are pushing E-bikes so hard (daily Facebook feeds about e-bikes FFS), no doubt at the request of the industry who are desperate to drag every possible penny out of the UK riding community.

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction – and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

Agreed,

I fully agree that there is an important place for E-bikes to help people with disabilities get out and enjoy what we take for granted. I also believe that there is a real place for e-bikes for commuting or cargo moving duties – what an awesome way to reduce the number of cars, van or buses in the country.

But, for me, being a MTB enthusiast is all about getting out into nature, fully under my own steam and getting away from devices making life easy in every possible way. I spend every working day staring at a monitor or checking my phone – completely relying on all that stuff – however – bike time is all about nature, my fitness & judgement – things I have worked really hard for.

All the arguments I have read above from enthusiastic MTBers thinking these are a great idea because it allows them to go further. To me – rubbish – just get out & ride more. Strapping an electric motor to your bike to make it go faster or to get you up bigger climbs is turning the bike into a motor-bike – regardless if you need to pedal or not – the bike is now a motor-bike.

Agree with all of that. I would add that I’m very happy that access to remoter parts of the UK in higher populated areas such the Surrey Hills or Chilterns have to be earned. Its a sort of natural selection where the lack of motorised access keeps these places more people free.

Andy – Agree with all of that. I would add that I’m very happy that access to remoter parts of the UK in higher populated areas such the Surrey Hills or Chilterns have to be earned. Its a sort of natural selection where the lack of motorised access keeps these places more people free.

You of course ride a rigid singlespeed with 1.9 tyres because suspension and gears and grip are all cheating and therefore access hasn’t been earned?

or do we all have to take a fitness test before we are allowed out, when exactly are people with hectic lives supposed to get out more and man up when they work 40 hours and have children?

Presumably you wouldn’t let the most stressed part of our population have any recreation because they’ve not earned it?

I like getting up stuff under my own steam.

I like getting to places under my own steam.

I like that fact that some things I can’t get up.

I like the fact that some adventures are just too big for me to do – read lack of fitness!

You take those things away & make them easier you take away 1/2 the challenge IMHO. Then where’s the compulsion, the urge to strive & improve yourself gone?

Each to their own, but if you make stuff too easy & too accessible where’s the challenge & then where’s the reward?….

There is a downside to making things too easy & that’s the fact that less seems special & the special that was becomes ordinary..

How dull a World that would be.

I like the fact that you say each to their own but then apply your own view on others recreational habits.

Some people don’t want to improve, some people don’t see there is an issue with their life as is, some people just like being oudoors.

Yeah i do dread that day people take e bikes up into the cairngorms

I can see the mrt call outs already .

“My batteries flat and im unable to get out from xyz remote location”

– and i know your sitting there thinking that surely wouldnt happen…… Worse happens.

More so the above is coming from a pro e-bike stance as well …. But as with everything theres are nobs in every walk of life so to write them off for all on the basis of the 1 or 2 that will be stupid – such as the **** i was doing 30mph on a pavement yesterday on his e bike ….

I like the fact that you say each to their own but then apply your own view on others recreational habits.

Uh?

I’m not applying it to you – I’m applying it to me!

They are MY reasons why eMTB is not for ME.

You have your own reasons for doing it & I’m sure they stack up.

I’m not stopping you from riding your motorised MTB anywhere..