pop larkin – The Podge- I’m not seeing where I said I hated e-bikes my point is that the perception issue of additional erosion may just add fuel to the trail access debate

Lets put a gate on the Country outdoors to stop too many people coming in, and lets put a cap on the population, lets prebook our outdoor life with the “perception government” so that only 1 person can use it at a time so its there for generations to come.

wilburt – @podge you say theres venom in this thread but most of seems to come from you, “case closed” etc.

What makes you think you decide when a discusion is closed?

I fear my lack of smiley face has sent you into a spin, don’t worry. The case isnt closed, you can still hope to ban everything just in case someone thinks that someone might do something that someone might not like… when I say you I mean someone other that you, very much not you. and when I say ban I mean you don’t want it banned but you’d like to point out reasons why other people (not you) should want it banned.

All the super-fit, human power only riders should be able to put out at least 1000w peak power, probably in a bursty nature. Surely this would cause more erosion than a fat, lazy, possibly disabled rider with 250w added to their meagre own offering?

The venom on this thread far out strips anything I’ve come across in person from any other usergroup.

TBH I don’t think there is that much venom – other than from the odd rather obvious troll..

As they say “Don’t feed the troll!”

I wouldn’t let them detract from the conversation.

Lets put a gate on the Country outdoors to stop too many people coming in, and lets put a cap on the population, lets prebook our outdoor life with the “perception government” so that only 1 person can use it at a time so its there for generations to come.

Nobody has said that, but there is reason to be concerned that they might cause extra trail damage – as highlighted by the IMBA link on the previous page.

The case isnt closed, you can still hope to ban everything just in case someone thinks that someone might do something that someone might not like… when I say you I mean someone other that you, very much not you. and when I say ban I mean you don’t want it banned but you’d like to point out reasons why other people (not you) should want it banned.

Interestingly, the only folks who mention the word “ban” seem to be those who have an e-bike…..

Over reacting much?

Missing the point just a touch?

FYI I am most definitely NOT in favour of a ban..

The UK has a limit on legal e-bike power. Reading this bit of the same IMBA report, mainly the 3rd point

True, but the IMBA data still suggest that there is the potential for increased damage at turns & grade changes.

Please understand, I don’t want to see e-bikes banned in any way. I just feel it’s important to be aware that they do have the potential to be more damaging than a normal MTB. That’s all.

So you agree I didn’t say I hated e-bikes then 🙂

As for the rest of your paragraph on putting a gate on the outdoors- you have lost me and Im not sure where the reference to Country comes in- were you saying my comment had racist undertones???

mrlebowski – Nobody has said that, but there is reason to be concerned that they might cause extra trail damage – as highlighted by the IMBA link on the previous page.

The link which was instantly disproved by Jameso?

Over reacting much?

Missing the point just a touch?
Yes and Not at all

The link which was instantly disproved by Jameso?

No, not really as he left out this section:

“We saw some differences between the impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns and grade changes. ”

pop larkin – Member
So you agree I didn’t say I hated e-bikes then

As for the rest of your paragraph on putting a gate on the outdoors- you have lost me and Im not sure where the reference to Country comes in- were you saying my comment had racist undertones???

Yes, you’re a massive massive RACIST and I have a pie chart to back it up.

(to avoid any kind of actual misunderstanding, I was A, taking the piss and B, using the term country as in countryside not as in countries of the world but striking it out as I’m sure many people don’t like ebikes in the city too).

This whole tread descended into a big pile of arse long long ago

mrlebowski – “We saw some differences between the impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns and grade changes. “

BAN THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

no one said ban them

BAN THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as its a pie made of free range ethically sourced meat Im happy- and I’m also taking the piss as I will eat any type of pie

pop larkin – Member
As long as its a pie made of free range ethically sourced meat Im happy- and I’m also taking the piss as I will eat any type of pie

Very unhygienic

Mrlebowski – it says that in relation to all the bikes in their study, including the sort that aren’t allowed on public rights of way. It then, under all that, very clearly states that type 1 bikes, which are the sort allowed on rights of way over here, have a similar impact to a regular bikes.

You can imagine why some of us speak with venom when presented with people unwilling to process data, facts, figures, actual experience of a thing and the law, regardless of how many times it is presented to them. But then we are living in the times of anti-intelligence, maybe I’ll just have to learn to live with stuff like this.

(I don’t own an e-bike for reference, I just don’t like it when people fly in the face of evidence, especially scientific evidence like that from IMBA)

We saw some differences between the impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns and grade changes. “

The smooth, consistent, power delivery of an ebike was better than the mashing of pedals on a conventional bike?

Great thread, read most of it.

I’ll be honest, I don’t like the idea of e-bikes particularly but it’s only because I’m a luddite and these new fangled contraptions introduce a whole new level of complexity and elctro-jiggery pokery to something that in essence is a simple machine.

My fear is probably completely irrational so I’ll remain open minded and just continue to enjoy my nice simple mechanical machine just like those who chose to embrace technology afterall nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying ‘you must e-bike, it’s the future’ same way as you don’t have to ride a 160mm carbon gnarpoon or one of those god awful fat bike things…

‘you must e-bike, it’s the future’ same way as you don’t have to ride a 160mm carbon gnarpoon or one of those god awful fat bike things…

😆 I have all three of those…

The ramblers have never openly hated on me whenever I’ve met them while on the bike, as I respectfully pull over at least 10 yards in advance unless they clearly signal for me to pass, which I do at a crawl and a safe distance. They certainly ain’t hated on me as I stop and have a wee spraff and a bit of a laugh with them.

Anyone care to explain why twice the usage isn’t twice the erosion?

don’t worry tomhoward…I don’t hate you 😀

Depends if hes using a mud claw or a 3.8larry doesn’t it.

Can’t imagine my electric assist bike is eroding the tarmac much more than the wind.

futon river crossing – Anyone care to explain why twice the usage isn’t twice the erosion?

Its difficult to measure but we’ll assume that twice the usage does equal twice the erosion

Do you propose we limit milage?
Do you propose we limit bike sales?
Do you propose we limit people?

If not, what is your point?

If we are really concerned about erosion then perhaps we should stop riding full stop.

We could ban stop those pesky walkers as well, must be loads of them causingerosion as well………

We seem to be having a weekly thread about the evil ebikes now, perhaps it should be a forum sticky thread……

Almost forgot about the cars and road building causing environmental issues, not to mention the erosion caused by building new roads…..

Come on, it’s not the biggest problem out there,

f we are really concerned about erosion then perhaps we should stop riding full stop.

We could ban stop those pesky walkers as well, must be loads of them causing erosion as well………

Yep, and horse riders and deer and rainfall and wind.
In fact all access should be stopped and people should be limited to looking at pictures of it.

So twice the erosion, then;

Good thing?

Or

Bad thing?

@Mrlebowski,

True, but the IMBA data still suggest that there is the potential for increased damage at turns & grade changes.

It does, I’d expect that due to added weight and riders being able to climb with added power. I think it’s well within the range of difference we’d see between riders of different weight and fitness though or a loaded vs unloaded unpowered bike. Not pitching in against what you’re saying, more trying to show the perspective that I think that IMBA doc backs up when a 250W bike is what we’re looking at.

Anyone care to explain why twice the usage isn’t twice the erosion?

It is. But if that’s an argument to act on then bike sales should be capped or we should all have a mileage quota : ) Don’t blame E-bikes for that one when I can ride well over 2x as far as I could a few years ago just from a bit of motivation and training?

Twice the erosion is good, it means someone somewhere is spending twice the the time enjoying the outdoors.

Of course its not twice because ebikes don’t make it twice as easy or cause twice as much damage for the same milage but if you’re going to reduce it to such a simplistic level then I’m still going for twice the erosion is good.

I accept I’ll be misquoted for years to come on this matter.

So twice the erosion, then;

Assuming EVERYONE rides twice as far, and those extra miles are equally off road to what they would have done anyway. And that the off-road they are riding isn’t a maintained/reinforced trail.

So nowhere near twice the erosion, then.

So twice the erosion, then;

Good thing?

Or

Bad thing?

What about fast riders like Njee then ? I bet he puts out more than 250W constantly, so maybe fast blokes shouldn’t be allowed to MTb either as they’re causing more erosion than slower ones ?

What about weight… how much of a factor is that then, what about fat riders ? Are they not allowed either ?

I am simply unimpressed by e-bikes.

Sure they’re a positive enough application for technology to help people who would otherwise be unable or more limited in their riding due to some sort of physical constraint.

But they’re now being pitched at the well funded, new golfers aren’t they.
So really it’s another industry gimmick for “sports tourists” they can hurl £3k at an e-mtb, call themselves “mountain bikers” for six months, then leave it in the shed for the battery and tyres to go flat… Normal product lifecycle innit.

Ultimately when I drag my own lardy arse up a hill using my meagre human generated joules only, I feel a greater sense of achievement than I would if I delegated some of the effort to a bosch motor… doing it all for myself is part of the enjoyment, nothing competitive about it, just a personal ‘ethic’ if you like…

If others can only derive the same enjoyment through the use of an e-bike, fair enough…

I am over my hate for e-bikers, but have you seen those off-road segway safarists? 👿

weeksy – Member

What about fast riders like Njee then ? I bet he puts out more than 250W constantly, so maybe fast blokes shouldn’t be allowed to MTb either as they’re causing more erosion than slower ones ?

What’s needed is a credit system- ebike owners and powerful riders can offset their erosion against the reduced impact of a puny or lazy rider, or the 90% of stw that never actually ride a bike. We could call it gnarbon credits.

Really it’s just a formalisation of the traditional stokens system, we just need to work out the transfer methods.

Ultimately when I drag my own lardy arse up a hill using my meagre human generated joules only, I feel a greater sense of achievement than I would if I delegated some of the effort to a bosch motor… doing it all for myself is part of the enjoyment, nothing competitive about it, just a personal ‘ethic’ if you like…

If others can only derive the same enjoyment through the use of an e-bike, fair enough…

My thoughts exactly. I can’t see me getting an eBike any time soon and going uphill under my own power is what I enjoy most. But that is what I like doing and eBike riders are doing what they like doing

cookeaa -Sure they’re a positive enough application for technology to help people who would otherwise be unable or more limited in their riding due to some sort of physical constraint.

Do pies and beer count?

I like bikes but I like pies and beer more

going uphill under my own power is what I enjoy most.

Really? Like, actually, really?

*Awaits first bike park where you ride to the top then get a downlift.

For me there is no sense of achievement, riding a bike is not a challenge, its an excuse to be outdoors away from people. So the quicker & further I can get from you lot the happier I am.

gnarbon credits 😀

*Awaits first bike park where you ride to the top then get a downlift.

It may be apochryphal, but there has long been talk of ze Germans doing this in Garda.

Wonder what the heroes would ride? Super light xc weapon to get to the top fast, or a super heavy POS to show how hard they are?

Kerley?

Gnarbon credits – an idea stated in jest, but actually strikes at a deeper point, with me anyway. I have a persistent guilt that I don’t contribute directly to the upkeep of the trails I ride. I would happily pay to do so, as I have more disposable income than spare time, but the catch being that I would want to be sure that the money went directly into the trails, and not to the council or whatever…

Give it to me. I’ll use it to pay off what I’ve spent on tools and after that, cakes.

going uphill under my own power is what I enjoy most.

Really? Like, actually, really?[/quote]

That was really the point, different people enjoy different aspects of cycling, including a bit of satisfaction from putting in an honest effort and achieving something for it, Other people buy e-bikes because otherwise they apparently couldn’t venture so far into the big old outdoors.

So long as either party are happy with their choices, who really cares. I don’t require your validation, and I expect you’ll live without mine…

Klunkers > front suspension > full suspension > disk brakes > E assist. Evolution innit.