Morning All,

I’m hoping we may be able to find some advice here please.

On Saturday my partner received a letter from an enforcement agency stating that we had an outstanding fine of £600 and as we hadn’t paid this a court order had been made for an enforcement agent to visit us if we don’t settle up.

I’ve just got off the phone to said agency who have explained that on 29/3/17 my partner had been sentenced in absence for “using vehicle without a valid licence.” Other then explaining that this could mean the person did not have a full licence, they were under a ban or using a car licence to drive a bus etc they were not able to give any further details but none of these are applicable to my partner.

My partner is an EU national who transferred her full EU licence to a full UK licence in October 2015. In November 2015 got a new car under a dealer scheme where everything was included, i.e. insurance and road tax so she only needed to add fuel.

We moved in July 2016 and again in July 2017 and then in October she received a letter from the DVLA saying that she had been driving without any road tax. After contacting the DVLA it transpired that despite informing the dealers of our change of address she had not updated her logbook which meant that even though she doesn’t pay road tax she hadn’t informed the DVLA that she didn’t have to so was driving without road tax and therefore had been fined.

That was all sorted out at the time and as far as we are aware at no point has she not had a full UK licence or been banned since having the car in 2015 which makes the whole situation somewhat puzzling to say the least.

Can anyone who knows more about this shed any light on it or offerany advice please?

Thank 🙂

Blimey, sounds a right mess.

Hope you guys get it sorted. I’m guessing it’s finding that one department out of the many that can sort it out.

“Prove it or sod off.”

What does the DVLA have to say?

Also, do not talk to these people on the phone. Written communication only. Too easy to incriminate yourself verbally.

Phone the DVLA – they will be aware of any prosecutions and what they were for.

Just a random thought… but did she change her address on her licence each time you moved.

I got a double whammy a couple of years ago when I was fined for a motoring offence, then also charged with not having my address updated on the licence.

It was actually dropped in the end, and I don’t know if it could have led to a charge of ‘invalid licence’ as such?? It’s just that you mention moving a couple of times.

Did they say where they were calling from? Did you take their full name and employee number?

If where they say they are phoning from is a legitimate Government agency, phone back and ask if they are a real employee, then proceed to sort it out.

I once had someone phone me up saying they were from ‘The banking sector’ or something similar and generic – wouldn’t actually give me a company name. I hung up immediately (it was a scam)

http://www.pepipoo.com

^ good advice over there

Assuming you’ve had none previously, in writing, tell them it’s the first you’ve heard of it so won’t be paying until they provide (copies of):

Original NIP or equivalent, including the address to which it was sent.
Court summons, including the address to which it was sent.
Case number and details
Notification of fine etc etc etc from the court, including the address to which it was sent.

Pay nothing until they can/do provide you with proof it really is your partner and you’ve considered that proof.

Once you have all that then a solicitor may be required. My first guess is it’s all gone to an old address (possibly why the licence wasn’t valid).

Do everything in writing and do not leave it unattended, if they don’t come back to you in 7 days follow it up, in writing, every 7 days until they do provide the details or provide written confirmation they have the wrong person and sorry for your trouble.

Thanks for the replies, it certainly is a bit of a mucking fuddle!

Each time we’ve moved she has changed updated her licence address, the problem with the tax stemmed from not telling them each year that she doesn’t have to pay road tax on a new car…

Written communication only would be great but the timeline we have with this is rather pressing. They have requested more information from the client an put the account on hold until the 15/1 but by then we have to enter into a repayment plan otherwise we have to pay it all in full after that which we don’t have.

My partner is on the hold to the DVLA now and my next call is to the magistrates court to see what I can find out there.

I forgot to pay my road tax and got fined etc. Paid it all soon as I found out. The collection agency DVLA used based in Glasgow were a nightmare. As I paid DVLA directly the agency then sent me countless letters demanding payment late payment etc as they appeared unable to get further details off DVLA. Email communication to cover yourself, good luck.

Nope they need to prove they have the right person. Don’t pay without anything in writing, ask them who they are and for all the details otherwise they are obviously scamming and I’d tell them that direct.

OK so according to the DVLA her licence is completely clear and she has never had any points or bans which rather begs the question where this court case is supposed to have come from.

If the court would answer the phone that would be great; choose option 1 to wait on hold for eternity lol

If that is the case then possibly reporting the collectors as potential scam artists to the police may help here.

Citizens Advice Bureau might be worth a visit or call.

Ignore their time line, the urgency is intended to make you pay and I’ll bet the proof you need “won’t be available” in that time frame. Tell them you’re doing this in writing and why. Give clear instruction on what time line is acceptable to you, i.e. 30 days from receipt of all paperwork for you to either pay or lodge a legal challenge. It’s in their interest for you to pay, even if you shouldn’t have to. It’s not in their interest to “send the boys round”, it’s expensive and rarely that quick, better for them you pay them in 6months with no additional costs to them than a third-party tomorrow.

If you’re genuinely concerned about their time scale, speak to CAB, it maybe they advise a solicitor to challenge the thing immediately.

Edit: as above, no record of the prosecution from the dvla? Contact the police.

the problem with the tax stemmed from not telling them each year that she doesn’t have to pay road tax on a new car…

You don’t have to do that every year as the DVLA knows what car you have and therefore how much you need to pay.
If she didn’t update the log book when you moved then the the DVLA would have issued the renewal reminder to the wrong address and you would have ended up without any ‘road tax’ (even if you don’t pay for it) and so would probably have been prosectuted using the old address in the log book.

We moved in July 2016 and again in July 2017 and then in October she received a letter from the DVLA saying that she had been driving without any road tax. After contacting the DVLA it transpired that despite informing the dealers of our change of address she had not updated her logbook

BUT how did the DVLA send a letter to your current address regarding the car not being taxed when the log book hadn’t been updated?

Sounds like a typical no VED processed and no SORN declaration made ,
the DVLA will automatically fine you if they do not get a transaction for the vehicle – whether the cost is zero or historic class – does not matter.

OK so according to the DVLA her licence is completely clear and she has never had any points or bans which rather begs the question where this court case is supposed to have come from.

I refer you to my original reply. You’ve received a letter out of the blue demanding money with no supporting evidence. Any idiot can send out a letter, there’s an entire industry of “debt collection agencies” sending out increasingly scary letters.

I’d be writing to them telling them that you have no knowledge of the claims being made, that they have 30 days to provide corroborating evidence and that if they persist in contacting you without said evidence it will constitute harassment. You’ll almost certainly never hear from them again.

Written communication only would be great but the timeline we have with this is rather pressing. They have requested more information from the client an put the account on hold until the 15/1 but by then we have to enter into a repayment plan otherwise we have to pay it all in full after that which we don’t have.

That’s just pressure to make you panic and pay up without thinking.

All I have to add is this; This enforcement agency may present various details about you wife which could convince you that they are legit, because how could they have them if they weren’t working for DVLA right? DVLA leak like a sieve, they have cost us millions through plain and simple negligence. That’s before you factor in their active selling off of our details to the highest bidder.

OK so according to the DVLA her licence is completely clear and she has never had any points or bans which rather begs the question where this court case is supposed to have come from.

A VED matter wouldn’t attract points, and it’s not a driving offence, so I don’t think the absence of anything recorded against her driving licence is relevant. Therefore I think your enquiry with the court to see what, if any, order has been made is the right way to go – that should at least indicate if it’s an admin issue or just a out and out scam.

a court order had been made for an enforcement agent to visit us if we don’t settle up.

this sounds suspicious to me. I can’t imagine a court order is needed to visit you
The ‘ They have requested more information from the client ‘ also sounds suspicious

I would be firing out a registered letter asap as well. It does sound like they are phishing but it’s not funny for you as you need to check

Edit: actually, I’d be recording calls with them and telling them I’m recording them to see if their attitude changes

Edit: I’d also be paying attention to what thegreatape says

You don’t have to do that every year as the DVLA knows what car you have and therefore how much you need to pay.

I’m not sure about that. Mrs Owg has a car that is zero-rated for vehicle tax. We got sent a standard reminder to pay zero pounds, which we just binned, feeling smug about it. A while later I checked online and the car was showing as ‘Untaxed’. It wasn’t until I went through the process of paying the zero pounds bill that it was shown as taxed.

If (big if) I’m reading the OP correctly, the car isn’t 0 VED rated, rather the first x years of VED were to be paid by the dealer under the sale agreement. Not that it’s necessarily anything to do with the possible scam/real issue anyhow mind.

It wasn’t until I went through the process of paying the zero pounds bill that it was shown as taxed.

Exactly…. every car needs to be ‘taxed’ even if you pay zero. It’s as much a car registration system as a money collection system. It seems that the OP/his partner have been binning the reminders on the basis that they paid zero [but they still needed to ‘register’].

the first x years of VED were to be paid by the dealer under the sale agreement.

Sounds possible. The Peugeot ‘just add fuel’ deal includes the car tax….. in which case surely this is the dealers issue.
But then driving an untaxed vehicle isn’t the same as driving without the appropriate licence. I may be wrong but, unless you were stopped by a copper, how would anyone know if you had the right licence to drive a vehicle? Something’s not right.

Read paragraph 37.17 in the criminal procedure rules.

Exactly…. every car needs to be ‘taxed’ even if you pay zero.

As well paying £0 you need to provide proof of insurance details and MOT (where appropriate)
Owner of a zero VED vehicle for many years.
The process has changed slightly in recent years and can be done online now I think – I always leave it to my SO to ‘pay’ it 🙂

ajaj – Member
Read paragraph 37.17 in the criminal procedure rules.

That seems to be the right answer

I’m not sure why there is all the chat about road tax/VED?

The Op says the fine is for “Using a vehicle without valid licence”. Nothing about VED. How would anyone know that she was even driving unless she was stopped by the police? This stinks of a scam to me.

The Op says the fine is for “Using a vehicle without valid licence”. Nothing about VED.

There is in the post I read. But you’re right that that would be totally separate from a driving licence matter.

Road Fund Licence maybe.

TBH the whole thing sounds like a scam. I would as for details about the court judgement and phone the court for information. You will probably find that they know nothing about it.

TBH the whole thing sounds like a scam. 

It might be but how likely would that be. A quick googgle would find out if the collection company is legitimate. It might be a mix up but it’ll need to be sorted.

As well paying £0 you need to provide proof of insurance details and MOT

Well you don’t have to supply it as the DVLA have access to all the info online now.

I suspect as already stated this is an excise licence offence not a driving licence. Probably somewhere in

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/contents

Two possibilities you have to work on 1) she has been prosecuted and convicted in her absence for something, 2) someone else has been convicted of something either under the same name or a similar name .
Both these require her to act and act now, if it is option 1 strict time limits run from date of knowledge. She needs to contact the court and make application to set aside the conviction a “Statutory declaration” saying she was unaware of the proceedings and has a defence this is the cpr link above. she needs the details of the case and to fill in the form and swear its true, this is run of the mill stuff and most court staff will help you through the procedure . The enforcement agent can’t sort this out and playing “prove it” with the enforcement agent will just run the time limit out.
If it is option 2 then the enforcement agent is barking up the wrong tree and data checking DOB address etc may confirm this. But if some one has used your partners details you are in option 1 subject to time limits so best contact the court .

My local magistrates courts do not respond in any reliable way to phone calls or emails you are best going in person to the public counter . To be fair they have had massive staff and funding cuts.

As an aside crankboy – how would you go about doing that without information on the prosecution? I’m assuming that our court system is no more tied up than any other public service so my local court would have no idea about a prosecution in say Swansea? I guess you need some sort of number etc to actually log the statutory notification against?

We contacted the court who carried out the hearing who were very helpful over the phone. They gave us all the details they could about the offence and when we explained what our circumstances were they told us exactly what we needed to do.

We contacted the Ipswich magistrates court, who apparently oversee all DVLA administration for court cases, and arranged for a statutory declaration at our local court. This effectively reopens the case by us swearing under oath that we didn’t receive any of the documentation they sent, in our case as we had moved, so were unaware of the fine which was why we didn’t pay at the time.

This also stops any further action at this time by the enforcement agency as it puts the clock back to zero so we will only have to pay the fine that was first issued plus some costs without the enforcement agency costs which in this instance are almost £300 😯

We have our date set and have collected all of the relevant paperwork together so just have to wait now for the statutory declaration date to arrive to get this put to bed.

BTW the offence was for the car being untaxed as apposed to my partner not having a valid licence and the car is under the Peugeot Just Add fuel scheme so the car doesn’t need to pay road tax for three years as it’s new.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, its been very helpful 🙂

Good news. I’m still confused as to what’s happened then – has the dealer cocked up and you have to pay the fine?

No, the OP has misunderstood the Peugeot deal.

The first year Road Fund Licence (RFL) is provided with the car. The first year Road Tax is provided with the car. The Peugeot Dealer will provide customers with a cheque for the value of years 2 and 3 RFL (based on current rates). The customer must always apply for years 2 & 3 RFL.

In answer to the earlier aside the enforcement agents should have the details of the court that issued the fine as would any court tasked with direct enforcement. From memory any dvla endorsement should also show the court or court code.

Thank you for that CB. Reading the OPs last post its apparent (which it wasn’t to me earlier) that they had details of the case from the agency already so also makes my puzzlement a pointless thought exercise.