Hopefully not been done…

http://road.cc/content/news/117675-video-sussex-police-use-cctv-footage-motorist-knocking-12-year-old-girl-bike

Frightening.

That people, is why my daughter is taking up mountain biking and not road riding. A tree wouldn’t leap out on you like that. Horrific bit of driving but at least he stopped and went to help.

That people, is why my daughter is taking up mountain biking and not road riding.

And don’t take this the wrong way, how will your daughter get around? How will she react when she learns to drive and has to interact with cyclists?

Will you also ban your daughter from walking on the pavement or crossing the road? Both are risky and plenty get killed doing both.

There are idiots in cars, the only ways to deal with this are training and enforcement. From experience drivers who cycle and motorcycle are better and more aware than those who don’t.

That’s really scary. I can only imagine that the cyclist arrived while the driver was looking to the right for traffic coming and waiting for a space so never saw the cyclist arriving and didn’t expect anything there, but how do you handle that as a cyclist? The rider did nothing wrong but still has to be prepared for that?

£190 and the same point as a speed camera, that’ll teach him.

3 points and under £200 of fines, ffs. That’s not “not looking”, you don’t need to look to see things that are bang in front of you. If that’s not dangerous driving, what the hell is, do you have to attach ben hur blades to your wheels or something?

That’s shockingly poor driving.

It’s that classic saccadic blindspot – driver’s not looking ahead; he’s looking right, then scanning fast to the left and missing the middle altogether

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

Fair point, haven’t got to the point where i need to work that one out. Although I feel a lot more comfortable about her walking on a pavement than riding on the road around here. Fingers crossed there are a load more cycle routes built in the next 5 years.

It’s that classic saccadic blindspot

That’s my worry, that although some drivers will know that there’s a problem and will force themselves to look at that place most won’t. I always try to look drivers directly in the eye as I imagine they spot someone looking directly at them more than someone who isn’t but I don’t know if there is any proof of that. It’s a bit like you tend to see someone in a crowd if they are staring at you for some reason.

I still find it hard to believe that people who cause accidents like these end up getting the same number of points as someone speeding at 35mph down a deserted street & not running someone over. You can argue all you like about speeding, but the fact is, when someone is stupidly negligent enough to actually cause an accident they deserve to be treated accordingly. IMHO of course.

If turning right across a busy road, I tell my lad to wait until it is clear in all directions before moving across the road.

Tbh if I hadn’t witnessed a mate of mine come of much worse some years ago, I would have said that girl was doing nothing wrong.

The reality is that a motorist may not see you if you are stationary.

Noted. I think you might be right. I think motorists tend to spot stuff that is moving rather than smaller stuff that is stationary

If turning right across a busy road, I tell my lad to wait until it is clear in all directions before moving across the road.

Tbh if I hadn’t witnessed a mate of mine come of much worse some years ago, I would have said that girl was doing nothing wrong.I’ll bite. What should she have done differently?

richpips – same here.

My 12 year old has just started cycling it school (norwich city centre), after recently taking his level 3 bikeability (we did that together). He is great on a MTB, but can be a little dozy near the road. The course really helped, he can deal with many things he could not before, but has also discovered his own limitations. He will use the pedestrian crossing on the last multi lane roundabout near school (out or choice).

He has also been tought the alternative right turn major to minor (he probably would use that on the junction in the clip), stop on the left and turn when all is clear. You are very vulnerable when sitting in the middle of the road. I have told him to only use a signal right turn if he anticipates that he can keep moving.

Still the drivers fault of course…..

Yep, from the looks of that junction I’d probably have stayed left, centre is a very passive/undefendable location, I’d probably only use the middle if I could see when the break in traffic was going to be. But that doesn’t change the fault in the slightest- just because the girl could possibly have done something to protect herself from a dangerous driver doesn’t mean she was in the wrong, she’s just in a different right.

Right and wrong doesn’t unbreak bones of course but it’s all that should matter when it comes to breaking driving licences.

Fueled – Member

I’ll bite. What should she have done differently?

moniex nails it

stop on the left and turn when all is clear. You are very vulnerable when sitting in the middle of the road.

Guessing she was in the drivers A-pillar blind spot (which he should have checked)

I’ll bite. What should she have done differently?

She should have made sure she was born in Holland.

People make mistakes, poor infrastructure converts those mistakes into deaths.

mrmo – Member
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

that was very interesting, cheers.

Johnj2000 +1

At least he stopped!

Great point Rich.
Next ride with my lads they’ll be taught the alt right turn because that’s a bloody scary clip.
Makes me even more convinced everyone should ride a motorbike for a year before being allowed behind a wheel, people still query my lifesavers when I’m in a car, without them I’d have hit a big Yam trail bike in Sheff last night, he was in my NS blind spot. Observation and awareness are critical.

Trouble is, that road (and that area tbh) is incredibly busy, the traffic can be constant for hours without a reasonable gap. I’d say that staying on the left and trying to dart across when all 3 lanes are clear would be impossible, especially for a 12yr old.

Trouble is, that road (and that area tbh) is incredibly busy, the traffic can be constant for hours without a reasonable gap. I’d say that staying on the left and trying to dart across when all 3 lanes are clear would be impossible, especially for a 12yr old

Agreed

From the advice offered by police at the end of the article in that link to the video:

Look out for cyclists, especially when turning – make eye contact if possible so they know you’ve seen them

I think that is awful advice, as it ignores that sacadic saccaddic thing the RAF bloke was on about in the other link above – how many times have we read “got knocked off by a motorist” posts on the ‘net with something along the lines of “I saw the driver looking right at me and he pulled out anyway” – the rider thinks the driver saw them and didn’t care, the reality is more likely that the driver looked but didn’t see them.

The implication of the advice from plod is that cyclists can process a driver looking at them towards them as meaning they’ve been seen and act accordingly, which imo is very dangerous – I always assume that any driver hasn’t seen me.

stop on the left and turn when all is clear. You are very vulnerable when sitting in the middle of the road.

You are very vulnerable when sitting in the middle of the road, with oncoming drivers refusing to slow down and drivers behind squeezing past on the in side, but Bikeability and John Franklin’s Cyclecraft do not advise starting a right turn from the left of the road.

Turning across the carriageway is not what a driver expects you do and puts you at greater risk.

Possibly the best thing to have done would have been to pull up on the left hand side and walk the bike across the road as a pedestrian

Never that I can remember. I’m not sure you’re understanding the saccaddic thing properly – personally I do always try and make eye contact, as that does mean the driver has looked at you rather than past you.

The saccadic blindspot is a real thing, but it’s not something that should have contributed to this at all- it can only come into play if he’s looking (very) quickly left to right and making absolutely no attempt to observe in front.