• This topic has 38 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by MSP.
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  • Doping in football?
  • theteaboy
    Free Member

    Found in the Cyclingnews Clinic (I have since removed my tinfoil hat) this is interesting and, if true, suggests that if football could find a David Walsh, he could make Lance look like an amateur doper!

    http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    Rugby is rife with doping too. far worse than cycling considering the amount of testing, you only have to look at the uk anti doping infraction list to see that.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Doping in pro sport?

    Edit: not just pro.

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    jambalaya
    Free Member

    No doubt in my mind football is rife with it and has been for many years as per the article.

    spud-face
    Full Member

    RAAARGH!

    (if there’s any truth in the persistent rumours of recreational drug use by Prem footballers, then the testing system isn’t stringent enough to be much of a deterrent)

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    After the cases in Italy a few years back, can’t be any doubt. Sadly the same in rugby. They all got so much bigger just because the game went professional?

    Operation Puerto wasn’t about cyclists alone, remember. The Spanish really missed a chance to blow the whole thing wide open. I’m more angry and frustrated with the Spanish authorities than with the actual dopers.

    66deg
    Free Member

    Football you do surprise me!

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    😀

    binners
    Full Member

    Don’t be mentioning any Spanish doctors (who’s doping cases were inexplicably dropped) and the period of success enjoyed by the Spanish football squad. Nothing to see here….

    MSP
    Full Member

    I seem to recall that half the codes on the blood samples destroyed in operation puerto started with RM (Real Madrid), and there was also some pretty obvious code for Nadal.

    The problem is football is mass entertainment, and when I watch modern top class matches and am blown away with the fitness and skill on show, I love it and don’t think I care if there is doping going on.

    Pieface
    Full Member

    So what do you think about doping in cycling? same difference surely?

    chrismac
    Full Member

    Of course there is thats why they dont have the same level of testing. It would be far too bad for business if they found out the likely reality of the problem.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    can’t say it would particularly bother me if was wide spread in football.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    more money = more cheating

    theteaboy
    Free Member

    It’s interesting – cheating in cycling and athletics really irritates me.

    I see most of football as corrupt anyway so finding out that the cheating is rife at all levels isn’t so much of a surprise. Just a shame that the ‘greats’ are all so heavily implicated.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    There’s a difference in football though where I don’t think doping would help too much. In cycling and athletics, these are sports about pure power, where as football is quite a bit more varied, fittest and most powerful don’t always mean the best..

    TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    Think it was documented that Wenger at Arsenal brought with him some quite interesting blood techniques when he first came over. Not sure of the details but I think a few of his players have documented it in books after they have retired about taking blood out, increasing the efficiency of the blood in whatever way they do it, then putting it back in.

    I don’t claim to know the ins and outs of it but this was 20yrs ago and I think it wasn’t deemed against the rules. If they did that then, well with all the advancements I would think there will be some pretty talented people working on some pretty amazing techniques to ‘artificially; improve performances.

    Look at the rewards in football compared to cycling.

    binners
    Full Member

    When Five Live did that expose of Lance, there was another programme on about doping in sport generally. Apparently its absolutely endemic in American Sport – American Football (particularly), Basketball, Baseball. They’re all at it. But the authorities turn a blind eye to it due to the vast amounts of money involved in TV rights, sponsorship etc

    dragon
    Free Member

    Doping in football is rife as far as I’m concerned, all the evidence points towards it. Sports professionals don’t work in isolation, they are always looking elsewhere for inspiration, so the use of drugs in every other sport can’t have been missed. The pathetic testing also helps avoid any embarrassing stories.

    eskay
    Full Member

    There’s a difference in football though where I don’t think doping would help too much.

    I disagree. Theatrics aside, footballers are superb athletes. If you cannot quite make the grade, anything that could give you an extra half a yard of pace would be a massive boost.

    Edit: I despise doping in any sport, I just wish doping across all sports could be uncovered and then cycling would not be the scapegoat.

    dknwhy
    Full Member

    When you watch some of the high pace football now, it doesn’t surprise me – especially the Spanish game (and Spanish tennis!)

    Friend of a friend works for rugby anti-doping. Was chatting to him a while back and he was saying that there is a real problem with drug abuse in young players/kids keen to bulk up with muscle to break into the professional game.

    dragon
    Free Member

    There’s a difference in football though where I don’t think doping would help too much.

    Rubbish, fitness in football is as valuable i not more so than skill, always has been and is becoming more so if we look at tactical trends such as how teams press as soon as the loose the ball. Also as teams tire more space opens, it is no coincidence that both Man City and Stoke scored late winners against lower league opposition on the weekend.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    eskay – Member
    There’s a difference in football though where I don’t think doping would help too much.
    I disagree. Theatrics aside, footballers are superb athletes. If you cannot quite make the grade, anything that could give you an extra half a yard of pace would be a massive boost.

    Nah, I know how fit they are and I know how important fitness is, I’m not disputing that. I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game..

    leegee
    Full Member

    Boxing is terrible for this, “Nutritionist” Memo Heredia who works with lots of big names admits he has developed loads of undetectable steroids.

    lunge
    Full Member

    Cycling, and athletics to a degree, seem to love to self flagellation on doping, they talk about it they refer to it, they are almost defined by it.

    Pretty much every other sport is much less forthcoming with the info. I would be astonished if football, rugby, tennis, golf, you name it, are not rife with doping. I would also be equally astonished if we ever heard about it, turkey’s (FIFA, LTA, RFU, PGA, etc.) will never vote for Christmas (more doping control).

    irelanst
    Free Member

    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game..

    Given that all the other aspects are equal a doped player will be better than a non-doped player, e.g Messi without his growth hormone treatment wouldn’t be the player he is.

    dragon
    Free Member

    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game..

    Seriously do you watch football? Have you seen the work rate of for example the top Spanish clubs and Spanish National team when they won the world cup.

    And historically it’s well known West Germany doped to win their first world cup.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    irelanst – Member
    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game..
    Given that all the other aspects are equal a doped player will be better than a non-doped player, e.g Messi without his growth hormone treatment wouldn’t be the player he is.

    If doping means we produce more messi’s in the game i’m all for it.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Of course doping makes a huge difference to a footballer. Increased fitness and stamina (this has side effect of making you more alert mentally at the end of the game too) plus recovery from injury (human growth hormone anyone ..)

    The linked piece talked about blood doping (adding your own blood back including after processing) this actually wasn’t illegal in cycling, in Armstrong’s book he talks openly about doing it whith his team mates whilst at the (Sydney ?) Olympics.

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game.

    All the other aspects of the game are a whole lot easier if you can sprint on and off for 90 minutes and recover rapidly between efforts. So a fitter, stronger athlete with a respiratory system that’s in peak condition will perform better than one who’s a bit knackered whether that be from the game in progress or because they are not recovering as well between games.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    dragon – Member
    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game..
    Seriously do you watch football? Have you seen the work rate of for example the top Spanish clubs and Spanish National team when they won the world cup.

    And historically it’s well known West Germany doped to win their first world cup.yes I watch football. and when watching the likes of messi inestia etc, it’s not purely their fitness that wins the games, it’s a large aspect of it. but their skill, awareness, team work etc etc etc is through the roof.

    Do you watch football? Generally I see a lot more that 22 fit guys running around a pitch.

    I never said it wouldn’t have an affect, just that i think it’s much less in sports like cycling or athelics where power is the be and end all.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    muppetWrangler – Member
    I just don’t think it would matter as much due to a myriad of other aspects of the game.
    All the other aspects of the game are a whole lot easier if you can sprint on and off for 90 minutes and recover rapidly between efforts. So a fitter, stronger athlete with a respiratory system that’s in peak condition will perform better than one who’s a bit knackered whether that be from the game in progress or because they are not recovering as well between games.

    For **** sake, I know this! 😆

    mt
    Free Member

    it’s been documented that Real Sociadad were paying Dr Fuentes around 300,000 euro/year.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    And look at the modern footballer’s (incredible) physique (and recovery times)

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    The type of people who watch Football couldn’t GAS whether their players dope or not, same with Rugby.

    I’ll end it there shall I?

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    bikebouy – Member
    The type of people who watch Football couldn’t GAS whether their players dope or not, same with Rugby.

    I’ll end it there shall I?

    There is a specific type who watches football? Could you describe them? 😆

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    For **** sake, I know this!

    ‘roid rage? 🙂

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    muppetWrangler – Member
    For **** sake, I know this!
    ‘roid rage?

    More like sugar rage with myself! 😆

    MSP
    Full Member

    I think that doping is a massive benefit to footballers, it increases the power, pace and ability to produce the skill when needed. It increases the spectacle. Same with most team sports.

    Thing with cycling is who can really tell if someone is producing 300 310 or 330 watts going up an Alp if they are racing it all looks the same. As doping increased and speed increased in cycling, has there ever been a better tour than the Lemond Fignon showdown? I would say that is still the best in my lifetime, while the top end of football is just getting better and better (despite the odd blip the trend is for an improving).

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