It seems that some idiots have been trying to undermine the excellent relationship between MTBs and Sheffield Wildlife Trust

Ride Sheffield

So if you know who was doing it, please make sure they read that page and don’t do it again

yea, they said words to this effect about some woods local to me, said it had some ‘special’ orchid and other scientific things so tried to stop people digging/riding in there, roll on a few years and the place is now being ripped apart for a road and 400+ houses, Epic double standards 🙄

The riders refused to give their names, hid their faces when photographed and generally treated Nabil with contempt. Even when made aware they were damaging a SSSI they continued to dig.

Numpties

Can’t say I’m surprised, seems to be a general disregard for other peoples property/land nowadays 🙄 Had a similar discussion with some local “trail builders” at the weekend. Note the increasing number of threads on this site re people looking for tools to “build trails in their locals riding spots”
Then there are the likes of the Dudes videos. These give the impression that you can just rock up to any old hill and dig some swoopy rad to the gnarr trail 😕
Ranting auld bloke…. 😉

These are brilliant

“Nabil has since done his best to make good the damage and has felled trees across the remainder of the trail to ensure it can’t be ridden”

Felled trees? To stop someone riding their bike, to protect a woodland? Am I missing something here?

And why the surprise that they wouldn’t give their names? “You, give me your name so you can be fined £lots”. Seems a bit optimistic to me

There’s plenty of valid reasons to fell trees in woodland management for conservation. Nabil may have just been able to drop some that were planned to go down anyway and make sure the fell onto the MTB track

Beggars belief really. Come on guys…

All property is theft man…

I don’t see the problem building in someone else’s woods provided you shrug and walk away if they dont like it.

Where they kids or adults, I find it very hard to understand how anyone local and in possession of a couple of brain cells would not know that the area is a SSI.

Really mad that they could potencially damage not just the area but all the hard work done by rider groups to build really good relationships with SWT and eastern moors etc.

There is no need to dig more trails there – The legal trails are great and on the edge of the peaks so there is loads of choice. The lady Cannings trails should be done soon (I think) as well.

I don’t see the problem building in someone else’s woods provided you shrug and walk away if they dont like it.

Of course you don’t see the problem, it’s not your woods…

That’s like saying “I don’t mind a scrote nicking my bike, as long as they give it back if I ask”.

I don’t understand this digging trails thing anyway. When and where is it OK to do it?

On someone elses land without there permission, never. That includes FC land.

Exactly what I would have thought. Yoof, eh?

So you wouldn’t ride these ready built trails then if you just stumbled accross them then I presume?

Whilst I agree it’s dumb to build on Blacka, making them sound like reckless outlaws (because they didn’t give their names and sign up to a fine of – I learnt today – up to £10,000) is unnecessary and weird.

It’s fine to build and ride on other people’s land as long as no one notices. This is basically how our footpaths and current ROWs have come about. If you do it surreptitiously for long enough then it becomes a ROW. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s also how all the trail networks around Ashton Court, FOD, Llandegla, Glentress etc started out in life.

The whole holier than thou thing is a bit tired. As a group, cyclists are oppressed by just about everyone so a bit of solidarity rather than name-calling would be nice. These individuals were clearly a bit daft but I doubt they were malicious or causing significant damage. I’m sure a few of the narrow sheep paths that people ride on Blacka aren’t actually specified rights of way anyway…

Me? I’m too lazy to build so don’t look at me.

It’s fine to build and ride on other people’s land as long as no one notices. This is basically how our footpaths and current ROWs have come about.

You sure about that?
It is 100% not fine and not OK to build on other peoples land. How about I knock up some dirt jumps in your garden while you are at work or build a nice pond?

You sure about that?
It is 100% not fine

Perhaps my tongue wasn’t in my cheek enough. I know it’s not fine, I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in our ROW laws. Also, where do you draw the line? Clearly building a huck line on Blacka is dumb. Is it malicious to follow some tyre tracks down a rabbit trail in the middle of some woods that no one ever goes in and is too far from a car park for walkers? We’ve surely all done that at one stage?

The whole holier than thou thing is a bit tired. As a group, cyclists are oppressed by just about everyone so a bit of solidarity rather than name-calling would be nice. These individuals were clearly a bit daft but I doubt they were malicious or causing significant damage. I’m sure a few of the narrow sheep paths that people ride on Blacka aren’t actually specified rights of way anyway…

Sorry, but there is very good reason why a bit of self-policing is required here. The landowners – Sheffield Wildlife Trust have been very accommodating to MTBs. It’s on their land at Greno Woods that Steve Peat’s Steel City Downhill is run. This course, and the other runs there, are not ROWs. As with some other landowners in Sheffield they’ve agreed to turn a blind eye in some areas but in return have said please don’t dig/ride in other areas – for specific reasons (SSSI, scheduled ancient monument, nesting birds etc).

Furthermore it should be obvious that someone managing woodlands for conservation reasons has more reason to be upset than someone who’s aims are forestry.

The whole thing is more than just a little unfortunate given the timing, although it’s clearly a bad thing full stop.

Closing the trail is extremely light touch enforcement. SSSI’s are such for very good reasons and are not to be messed with.

Anyone feeling outraged about the poor trail builders should head to Ride Sheffield’s page and read. Incredibly, given the amount of trouble that’s been caused, they’d like to talk to these guys simply to explain the problem and point them at places that are okay to build on rather than drop a ton of bricks on their heads. There are some on the forum advocating such retribution of course, but STW is hardly a stranger to the existence of pitchforks on teh interwebz… 😉

its the same near me, people have dug jumps on woodland footpaths within half a mile of cragg quarry ,we’ve been riding em cheeky for years without problems and this could piss a lot of people of for very little gain .if you want jumps there are places to do it that don’t affect others ,just have some thought

slowoldman – Member

I don’t understand this digging trails thing anyway. When and where is it OK to do it?

http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/dig-days/ or with any other organisation that volunteers to build and maintain local trails!!

http://www.qecptrailcollective.co.uk/category/dig-days/
http://www.pmba.org.uk/volunteers.htm
http://www.singletraction.co.uk/wp/
http://timbermtb.org/website/home
http://www.facebook.com/TrailTeamSwinley
http://www.grizedalemountainbikes.co.uk/trail-building/
http://chasetrails.blogspot.co.uk/
http://hurtwoodtrails.co.uk/trail-building-methodology/
Etc Etc Etc….

I think there’s a very clear and obvious difference between riding along something that already exists, and going out with shovels to build something without permission.

Though to be fair I have a huge problem with people who set out to ‘improve’ trails by putting bloody jumps on them….

SSSI’s are SSSI’s because they’re about all that’s left of wildlife value after 70 years of intensive farming and urban expansion.
Just saying, like.

Some local MXers started to “play” in the woods near me. It is pretty flat with a couple of sandy quarry areas and mainly used by walkers, families etc. there also a 1k cycle track. It’s taken many years to get improvement to what were “walks” and even longer to get the cycle track. FC through one of their schemes are now managing the area and have been surfacing and improving the walks including picnic tables.
Then along comes a few MXers and quad bikers to rip up some of these tracks and other!! People complained to the police and FC put up signs telling the MXers to stay out and the public to report any incidents.
So what did the MXers do? Went into the adjacent, abandoned golf course and ripped that up!! The landowner has now started to renew the fencing and return the land to agricultural use.
There was quite a debate on the local police FB page about it with quite a few people having similar attitudes to some stwers….. 😉

^^ what’s your point caller? 😕

Whilst I agree it’s dumb to build on Blacka, making them sound like reckless outlaws (because they didn’t give their names and sign up to a fine of – I learnt today – up to £10,000) is unnecessary and weird.

It’s fine to build and ride on other people’s land as long as no one notices. This is basically how our footpaths and current ROWs have come about. If you do it surreptitiously for long enough then it becomes a ROW. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s also how all the trail networks around Ashton Court, FOD, Llandegla, Glentress etc started out in life.

The whole holier than thou thing is a bit tired. As a group, cyclists are oppressed by just about everyone so a bit of solidarity rather than name-calling would be nice. These individuals were clearly a bit daft but I doubt they were malicious or causing significant damage. I’m sure a few of the narrow sheep paths that people ride on Blacka aren’t actually specified rights of way anyway…

Me? I’m too lazy to build so don’t look at me.

Some good points well made 😎

I wouldn’t build in a SSSI because the kerfuffle (of the sort mentioned in RS’s article and comments from SWT rep’) it’ll inevitably cause. Whether it’s practically and technically (in terms of trails) possible / approopriate to build in one is another matter.

Life is nuanced and very rarely black and white 🙂

The SSSSSSI and wildlife thing is just a smokescreen which sometimes works better than a simple DON’T or STOP

Have seen enough protected areas dug up and decimated to realise it’s all BS

Public liability is top priority – the landowners don’t want you there in case you injure yourself. That’s all there is to it

Have seen enough protected areas dug up and decimated to realise it’s all BS

Name one. If its for housing/transport they’d have had mitigation plans as part of the planning permission.

If it’s land management then the designation might be for something specific – an orchid or geological feature which would unaffected by the operations.

Have seen enough protected areas dug up and decimated to realise it’s all BS

For real or just blame the faceless corp/government for something. It’s a tough thing to get that all land is not public and not all is suitable for everyone to do what they want. There is a grown up approach (see ride Sheffield) and the other way.

@scottfitz – I thought that was trail maintenance.

slowoldman – Member

@scottfitz – I thought that was trail maintenance.

Trails have to be built before they can be maintained. Maintenance can also include new sections of trail, optional features etc..

A lot of SSSIs are enclosed by areas that aren’t protected but the same card is played.

Not concerned about access or trails or whatever but don’t tell me there are some birds nesting on the ground and then bring the machinery in

That’s BS

Oh dear.. 🙄 Too many saints and jobsworths on this forum

Hi all, some good points. We’ve really tried not to get too self righteous about this but SWT are good allies and we don’t want to piss them off. We don’t want to come over all heavy with the guys who were digging, we want to explain the harm they could do to long term relationships that have taken years to build up and point them towards places they can dig without getting in bother. Also, Blackamoor has been granted in perpetuity to the ‘people of Sheffield for recreation’ so there’s little chance of double standards here – it’s a SSSI and will remain so. I may be a mountain biker but I love Blackamoor for the wonderful wildlife just as much as the brilliant trails. We have a duty to look after the place. Sermon over, Amen…..

Public liability is top priority – the landowners don’t want you there in case you injure yourself. That’s all there is to it

The landowner is Sheffield Wildlife Trust. They do actually care about birds nesting and stuff like that. They also allow people to build quite challenging routes elsewhere on their land and even have races on them.

Oh dear.. Too many saints and jobsworths short sighted selfish muppets on this forum

FTFY

Sorry, but there is very good reason why a bit of self-policing is required here.

Yes, I completely agree. The work that RideSheffield do is good, and it’s important to remember that they’re all proper riders. It’s not some weird advocacy group run by people who occasionally ride touring bikes in sandals or something. So whilst I was being flippant yesterday, I think the work they do is important and the tone of their statement about this issue was spot-on IMO.

I just find it weird how STW users who only hear one side of the story immediately jump to the side of the non-cyclist.
This happens in lots of threads (The OP deserved to be run down by a drunk driver, he wasn’t taking the primary position etc) and it’s one of the weird quirks of this forum. It’s as though basically everyone is slightly ashamed of being grouped with other people like them.