Good post woppit

Pretty amazing that President of the USA just said that he trusts his BFF Putin over the FBIs report into Russia hacking the election.

In normal times this would be a shocking moment

I bet this is going down a storm with the US security devices 😳

Trump criticises and ignores his own intelligence agencies and then goes into a two hour unrecorded private meeting with Sputin.

What did they discuss?  What agreements were made?

One President avoids scrutiny by his 4th Estate whilst the other controls his.

Clear and present danger.

Fintan O’Toole

Fintan O’Toole is dead right. Political systems (including democracy) are transient. Brexit, Trump and Putin are the harbingers of a return to the system my father’s generation fought and died to eliminate.

Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

Tweet by former CIA director John Brennan. Situation is completely bonkers.

 Brexit, Trump and Putin are the harbingers of a return to the system my father’s generation fought and died to eliminate.

It was defeated then, and it will be again.

Well for a triple bill

The Post

All The Presidents Men

Frost Nixon

How it should go…

He seems to have done something he was unable to do until now.

United us politics, against him

I don’t think Nin is a racist, or a sexist, or actually even a Trump supporter, tbh.

I think, rather sadly, he’s just ended up taking on that mantle to help himself through his rather sad, monotonous, and by the sounds of it, rather friendless, life.

Plenty of the “deep state” or “conspiracy” nutters are just sad, lonely people, who jump on the bandwagon, ANY BANDWAGON, just to feel part of something…….

Everything that happened in Helsinki today only reinforces that conclusion. My fellow Americans, we are in trouble and we have some big decisions to make today. This was a historic moment in the entire history of the United States.
There is overwhelming evidence that our president, for the first time in our history, is deliberately or through gross negligence or because of his own twisted personality engaged in treasonous behavior — behavior that violates his oath of office to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Trump vacated that oath today, and Republicans can no longer run and hide from that fact. Every single Republican lawmaker will be — and should be — asked on the election trail: Are you with Trump and Putin or are you with the C.I.A., F.B.I. and N.S.A.?

Listening to Trump, it was as if Franklin Roosevelt had announced after Pearl Harbor: “Hey, both sides are to blame. Our battleships in Hawaii were a little provocative to Japan — and, by the way, I had nothing to do with the causes for their attack. So cool it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/opinion/trump-and-putin-vs-america.html

Nothing more to add

It was defeated then, and it will be again.

I would prefer it not to get to the point where millions die once again to defeat it.

 I would prefer it not to get to the point where millions die once again to defeat it.

We shouldn’t have been so weak as to allow this to happen again. Liberal democracy through its own nature has allowed this scum to float to the top once again, “I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it” the biggest mistake.

To defend liberal democracy you are now going to have to be illiberal to those who use it as a cover to destroy it.

Well my head was spinning about the sun interview  but this has pretty much left me shocked.

This is dangerous.

We are well and truly through the looking glass now. 😳

So, & stop me if I’m wrong, but ninny’s support of Trump is down to the fact that it winds up folks he doesn’t like? Somehow gaining satisfaction from somewhere along the way………..

How terribly fing tragic, he must be an individual full of nothing but bile & hate to gain pleasure from the actions of a deliberately antagonistic & devise narcissist such as Trump.

I’d feel sorry for him, maybe some pity too, but he probably wouldn’t be able to understand where such feelings spring from.

Over to you laddo, tell us you have thought this through & it isn’t just hate driving you.

Show us you still have some humanity left in you..

Either ignore him or argue with him but dont make assumptions/ jibes about his personal life it makes you look bad.

@ctk

As I said about Donald:

he winds the lefties up so much that they become the very embodiment of that which they criticise.

you can see it in the mindset above, unable to rationalise someone they can’t intimidate into agreeing with them with their superficial veneer of moral superiority, the inner nastiness gradually creeps to the surface until they reveal their true character…

He seems to have wound up Fox news now which is saying something. It is one thing winding up lefties, political opponents, people from other countries, or even the press, but his disdain for his own intelligence services which he oversees is something else.

his disdain for his own intelligence services which he oversees is something else.

The same intelligence services that Hoover turned into what was essentially his own secret police force in order to undermine everyone from political activists to gays, opposition politicians, the civil rights movement and sitting presidents?

Disdain? Trump has barely touched the surface! Harry S Truman noted:

“We want no Gestapo or secret police. the FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail… Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him.”

Now, regards Donald directly – what we see here is, once again, the usual suspects running around like headless chickens screaming the sky is falling on the basis of a press conference between the leaders of two countries that have quietly been locked in conflict since the end of WW2, both interfering with each other.

A few months ago the same voices screaming about Nuclear War with North Korea. The media in the UK and Europe said Trump was going to start WW3 with the fat North Korean lad. Has Trump started WW3? No.

Nothing new is it? The (kgb funded?) CND/Atomkraft Nein Danke hysteria saw a pretty much identical reactions to Reagan in his early years, ie. the run up to deployment of Pershing II & Cruise – Reagan was a warmonger, genocidal maniac, an existential threat to world peace, etc. – but look what happened next… unprecedented arms limitation treaties, “tear down this wall”, glasnost and the collapse of the SU.

Imagine todays hysterical media pool covering Reagan’s glad-handing and back slapping with Gorbachov at the reykjavik summit, despite the downing of KAL 007. Imagine the screaming and wailing at programmes like Brilliant Pebbles and SDI… but look what they ultimatley delivered.

What you need to do is separate out the rhetoric from reality and aim questions at the things that really happen, rather than being up in arms every time Trump is on TV or sends a tweet. OK, he’s implementing a simple protectionist policy a la Calvin Coolidge, but haven’t the political left been telling us for years that free trade and multinational corporations were destroying both society and the planet? US decisions ripple across the globe as they are the only super power we have at the moment. His policy is US first, and good on him for doing it – he is expecting NATO countries to financially step up to the plate, again, about bloody time, its the inevitable disengagement and cutting of the apron strings that the Marshall Plan was ultimately introduced to deliver – a prosperous and stable Europe that could look after itself.

This is an economic war, not a guns, tanks and planes war. It always has been about money really. The US making friends with Russia? Why the hell not? In fact its just another indication that the US is happy to withdraw from the European theatre and let Europe take centre stage in looking after itself as intended. The question is will Europe successfully step in to fill the void or descend once again into infighting. The tensions in macroeconomic policy within the EU remain high, Germany and France continue to dominate while economies like Greece and Spain are barely holding it together, well meaning but ultimately flawed Immigration policies are leading to internal tensions and infighting within the EU. Poland, Hungary and Italy have all had enough of being ordered around by the Germans and are beginning to rebel politically, (just the start of the reasons we are better off out)

Th usuals may not like Trump, but the fact is that he’s getting things done on a macro scale (oh, FFS, the screeching we’ll no doubt hear on this statement from the usuals we’ll hear now – where’s the wall? tell me one thing he’s done? whinge, scream, whine etc.) but, frankly, the growth figures in the US economy (and the slowing down of growth in the Chinese economy) dont lie

Brexit, Trump and Putin are the harbingers of a return to the system my father’s generation fought and died to eliminate

Communists?

Dont forget that a lot of Europe was rather keen on fascism and it didn’t exactly go without a fight, in fact without both Russia and America I imagine it would have been encamped in Europe for a long time.

@ninfan – I don’t think anyone ever accused Reagan of being in bed with the Russians, in fact, quite the reverse.

There seems to be some quite striking evidence that Trump may have been colluding, see for example the indictment against Marina Butina.

So trump didn’t hack the election coz…. Hoover

It’s an economic war…. Ask the Skirpals, the family of Dawn Sturgess, Crimeans, Syrians…

Trump’s just being a lefty protectionist

Trump’s achievements in NK amount to not startist WW3

Regan was worse because he befriended Gorbachev

And the migration crisis is unsettling the EU, so we should run away.

Being an applologist for Trump/Putin must be tiring work, ninfan!

So skipping the usual crap from ninfan can you find anyone supporting Trump on this one? Fox ain’t happy, republicans ain’t happy.

I’d be more concerned if Trump didn’t change his mind every 5 minutes. I’m sure Russia will be the Evil Empire next week and then super BFF’s again the week after.

For all his political cunning I’m not sure even Putin knows wtf is going on, much less how to control him. Sure, Putin’s already had a major victory in helping drive a wedge between the US President and his intelligence services – fortunately I expect it’s easily repairable whenever the next President is sworn in, it’s just a question of damage limitation until then.

Does anyone else have an overriding fear that somewhere, some time ago a conversation was had.

You can make me president with that tech?

Sure, I just need a favour.

Name it.

pull out of NATO, and turn a blind eye to whatever happens in Europe thereafter.

Europe? they all hate me anyway.

Exactly.

The 2 extremes of analysis I heard this morning are….

His ego is weak (which we know) and suggestion that he was not the reason he won the election hurts him and anyone who suggests that is wrong. Hence defaulting to agreeing with Putin

or at the other end

Putin has something over him and is exercising control.

Either way the comparison would probably be May turning up at a meeting with Putin and saying despite what MI5, Police, GCHQ, MI6 and everyone else said the poisoning in Salisbury was nothing to do with Russia as Putin said so.

Putin was asked directly if he had any kompromat on Trump.

He gave a brilliant rambling non-denial , that must have really irked trump.

Does trump even know how easily Putin played him?

On one hand it is good that he meets Putin and Kim.

But he is useless and has zéro influences in those meetings.

Follow the money

Either way the comparison would probably be May turning up at a meeting with Putin and saying despite what MI5, Police, GCHQ, MI6 and everyone else said the poisoning in Salisbury was nothing to do with Russia as Putin said so.

he should have just signed a multi-billion dollar gas and oil deal with Russia. Apparently that’s enough to put your motives entirely beyond reproach…

So you can’t explain his behaviour then. Or how he looked so uncomfortable or shat on his own agencies there. Nope didn’t think so.

…but, frankly, the growth figures in the US economy (and the slowing down of growth in the Chinese economy) dont lie

Is there really nothing more important than money in today’s society?

That is the only measure of success?

To me, that is everything that is wrong with Donald Trump. There is no care for anything else. No compassion for the people. In fact that is putting it lightly. He’s a bigot and a misogynist, and will trample over anyone who gets in the way of his own selfish plans. Hitler got things done. He improved living standards and raised peoples hopes. That’s why they voted for him.

The scariest thing about this, is that his negative traits are clear as day, they are really quite extreme. Yet people either choose not to acknowledge them, or are genuinely incapable of seeing them. I can’t work out which. But until we understand this anomaly in human consciousness, we will always be on the precipice of a worldwide disaster.

Even at the very best end of the spectrum, you have to ask yourself what kind of values we are teaching our kids?

…but, frankly, the growth figures in the US economy (and the slowing down of growth in the Chinese economy) dont lie

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/

If that is the case then Obama got a lot done 😉 some serious growth in there

Oh Hi @ninfan glad to see you’re back – any chance of answering my questions that I posed to you way back on page 355?

So for that you’re more than happy to turn a blind eye to his racism, short sighted policies, climate change denail, sexism, & his general **** everyone else that is Donald Trump attitide?

So as  @ninfan seems so eager to align himself with Donald Trump, is it fair to suggest that he/she themselves are a sexist, racist, anti science, terrorist apologist?

Well, it’s really more of a question posed about me more than a question posed at me, isn’t it?

however I think it’s pretty much answered above in my comments to @ctk – you only need to look at how the paragons of left wing virtue on this site end up revealing their true colours to figure it out

You giving Obama credit for the growth figures too?

I think you’ll find,  ninpoop, that disgust at Trump and,  by extension,  his ‘base’, is not confined to ‘lefties’.

I think you’ll find,  ninpoop, that disgust at Trump and,  by extension,  his ‘base’, is not confined to ‘lefties’.

No, i agree, it appears to have infected a wider variety of stupid and gullible people who react to everything the media tells them without bothering to apply any form of critical analysis.

Accurate description of Trump, ninfan 👍