Someone lost an election and moved into their own house from “grace and favour” accommodation.

Clinton lost the election…

By allowing him to annexe part of Czechoslovakia? At the conference designed to prevent a European war?

Yup, he got it 100pc right.

Hitler needed an immediate war because he couldn’t win an attritional war which would be inevitable once Britain and France had armed themselves. (From memory we had a dozen Spitfires in ’38, the rest of our airforce was obsolete.  Think about it, when Churchill fought the battle of Britain, he was doing it with Aircraft built by Chamberlain.)

So Munich tricked* Hitler out of that immediate war & Chamberlain’s cunning in achieving that was brilliant. Have a listen to the podcast, I don’t normally buy the revisionist version of events, but in this case you just can’t fault the revisionist argument.

* And I do mean tricked. Hitler was utterly duped, and he knew it.

Rather than ‘sitting US President’, you boiled it down to the colour of his skin.

Quoted for posterity for all those times people mention Trump being Orange 😉

You’re either trolling to get a rise out of people, or you’re a racist, or you’re both.

I am going to go with the both option.

Ninfan is Mr White from South Park and I claim my “Get out of Jail Free” card the next time I upset the mods.

Invading Russia was Hitlers biggest mistake.

Someone lost an election and moved into their own house from “grace and favour” accommodation.

Not even that. Obama lost no election.

I think it’s disgusting, a US president offering an opinion on Brexit and saying we song get a trade deal if we stay in the EU, shouldn’t be allowed should it?

I’m guessing you meant won’t not song. If that’s so, that’s not what he said.

Hitler needed an immediate war because he couldn’t win an attritional war which would be inevitable once Britain and France had armed themselves.

Do leave off – he spent the next year annexing various parts of Europe, and took France in very short order once war was declared. There was absolutely nothing attritional about it, and the only thing that bought Britain sufficient time to defend itself was the sea.

Do leave off – he spent the next year annexing various parts of Europe, and took France in very short order once war was declared. There was absolutely nothing attritional about it, and the only thing that bought Britain sufficient time to defend itself was the sea.

Because of Chamberlains policies on rearming.

If the French and Britshad kicked it off pre-emptively in 38, 6 years of bloody fighting could have been avoided.

Nah, it’s pretty clear, think back to Obama…

You understood what he meant? Can you explain it to me?

Hitler needed an immediate war because he couldn’t win an attritional war which would be inevitable once Britain and France had armed themselves. (From memory we had a dozen Spitfires in ’38, the rest of our airforce was obsolete. Think about it, when Churchill fought the battle of Britain, he was doing it with Aircraft built by Chamberlain.)
So Munich tricked* Hitler out of that immediate war & Chamberlain’s cunning in achieving that was brilliant. Have a listen to the podcast, I don’t normally buy the revisionist version of events, but in this case you just can’t fault the revisionist argument.

Kind of wrong really here – the German army was still in a bit of a sorry state in 1938. We were better poised to take control of the situation in 1938 than we were in 1939. The Hurricanes would have coped with the early B-D model 109s.

Because of Chamberlains policies on rearming.

Partly yes, and if he was so smart we can only wonder why he waited until late 1938 to pursue rearmament, and even then not at any great scale. We must also wonder why we went to war over Poland yet sacrificed Austria and Czechoslovakia: if buying breathing space was the aim, then Chamberlain’s guarantee to Poland was foolish in the extreme.

More importantly, Melania is bowling with Phil and some Chelsea pensioners

It swings both ways, all sides were building up – one in three German tanks used in the invasion of France was built in Czechoslovakia.

Anyway, to credit Chamberlain for anything other than incompetency is a push I reckon. We didn’t lose France to a numerically and technologically superior enemy, we  lost because we didn’t attack Ruhr region immediately upon entering WW2. While the Germans were concentrating on Poland and before Hitler was able to turn full attention to France. They should have preempted the May 1940 invasion of France that caught the Allies by surprise with their own offensive actions.

I mean, I have read that we weren’t even willing to bomb their factories during the opening days of the war because Chamberlain etc – still thought that it could be kept civil and didn’t want to damage the property of industrialists.

You understood what he meant?

Ninny is trying (slyly he probably thinks) allude to the fact that Obama had (with the collusion of Cameron) suggested before the referendum that if Britain voted out, they would be at the “Back of the queue” when it cam to a trade deal. It was an as equally stupid thing to say as Trump’s comments on Johnson, and not being sure that Mays compromise was what “Britain had voted for”

There is, after all, a long and not so glorious history of the US interfering in everyone else’s politics which Obama wasn’t hesitant in joining in with when it suited him.

Someone lost an election and moved into their own house from “grace and favour” accommodation.

Obama didnt lose to Trump

There is, after all, a long and not so glorious history of the US interfering in everyone else’s politics which Obama wasn’t hesitant in joining in with when it suited him.

Which for ninny equates to the same as Russian cash/meetings and under the table deals which still have not been made public.

It’s all about diversion and whataboutery, wantt o address Trump bragging about sexual assault – there was an allegation about JT in Canada here is a tweet and cropped newspaper cutting

Want to talk about treatment of Child Migrants – look Obama did this

Want to talk about anything and all he wants to talk about is something else.

Anyway are we still debating pre war politics?? Simple question on it would you make that deal with Trump today (the one who knew his interview would be published shortly after the port came out)

Tweet by Robert Shrimsley at the FT…

We are all viewing Trump trade statement as a Brexit intervention. But the bigger picture here is Trump’s desire to weaken the EU as a trading block. That’s why he told Macron to leave and why he wants UK to do so. This is not an idle aside, it is US trade strategy.

Yep it’s the obvious answer, just got to work out who else wants that too

Anyway, to credit Chamberlain for anything other than incompetency is a push I reckon

There’s lots of evidence that Chamberlain’s response to Hitler’s “demands” about Czechoslovakia delayed the on-set of war by a year.  Hitler hated the way the Chamberlain had out-manoeuvred him, and his threats to Poland were much more oblique.

The way the papers portrayed him, and Churchill’s popularity and success in the war has obscured most peoples view of him

This probably needs to have a thread of it’s own if the discussion is to go on though

Which for ninny equates to the same as Russian cash/meetings and under the table deals which still have not been made public.

Well, you weren’t overly bothered when Hillary did it, so why are you getting your knickers in a twist over allegations Trump did?

It’s all about diversion and whataboutery, wantt o address Trump bragging about sexual assault – there was an allegation about JT in Canada here is a tweet and cropped newspaper cutting

Well, you’ve gone on for months and months about allegations Trump did it, so how come you’re not overly bothered when it turns out Justin did it (ps. it wasn’t cropped, if you clicked on it it showed the full article as published at the time)

Want to talk about treatment of Child Migrants – look Obama did this

Well, you weren’t overly bothered when Obama did it, so why are you suddenly getting your knickers in a twist over what Trump does?

Want to talk about anything and all he wants to talk about is something else.

No, I’m just asking “why the double standards?” Why do you only get upset when Donald does something that you’ve never given a flying **** about before when done by anybody else?

We are all viewing Trump trade statement as a Brexit intervention. But the bigger picture here is Trump’s desire to weaken the EU as a trading block. That’s why he told Macron to leave and why he wants UK to do so. This is not an idle aside, it is US trade strategy.

You mean that Trump is putting America First? Who Knew?

Clinton lost the election…

Ah yes of course. My bad.

My point, though badly couched,  still stands, I think. ..

Well, you weren’t overly bothered when Hillary did it, so why are you getting your knickers in a twist over allegations trump did?

No knickers here, what is your specifics with Clinton?

Muller is progressing well and appears to be getting through the campaign team, with a genius like Manefort hanging around we shall see what allergations get proven.

Well, you’ve gone on for months and months about allegations Trump did it,

He was recorded bragging about it. What exactly did he do, still not seen something overly specific and verified there.

On child migrants was he creating unaccompanied minors or trying to fix that situation?

Double standards LOL

Do you have any opinions on what is happening at the moment or on the behaviour of Donald Trump? You know any at all, anything about his behaviour or actions? On the incoherent answers to the questions at NATO (which fact check very badly)

Do you have any opinions on what is happening at the moment

Heres the problem – I’m clever enough to understand that opinions are like arseholes – everyone has one, and they all stink. thats why I seldom express my own, I’ve got enough self awareness to recognise that its just that, my opinion.

Its only because you constantly, repeatedly, incessantly whinge about Trump that I really enjoy picking up on what you say by pointing out your complete and utter inconsistency and hypocrisy.

Read it and weep, deny it all you like – but… you know its true 😉

I’m clever enough to understand that opinions are like arseholes – everyone has one, and they all stink. thats why I seldom express my own, I’v got enough self awareness to recognise that its just that, my opinion.

But when you do, like you assessment of who the protesters are, who is marching or what all us lefties think about things

anyway we were talking about facts and stuff that has actually happened, if all you want to do is try and be a super pedant than go for it. You let enough of the feeling out when it comes to immigration and religion that we know where you are coming from.

It’s also similar tricks to the Jordan Peterson stuff or trying to make to events seem equal when they are truly not, trying to sow doubt about things where there is none, disputing facts with opinion piece dressed up as facts.

I seem to remember a lot of claims about the health of Hilary Clinton, repeated no smoke without fire on the email server etc. etc. surely there is enough smoke around the Trump camp to require proper impartial investigation to run it’s course (hell the lead investigator is even a Republican to make it even easier for him)

There’s lots of evidence that Chamberlain’s response to Hitler’s “demands” about Czechoslovakia delayed the on-set of war by a year.

Maybe, but that wasn’t necessarily a good thing, and Chamberlain wasted the opportunity (before and after Munich) for full-scale rearmament and negotiating an alliance with the Soviets.

Anyway, the revisionist view is several decades old now, I thought most historians were post-revisionist?

Hitler hated the way the Chamberlain had out-manoeuvred him, and his threats to Poland were much more oblique.

+1

We didn’t lose France to a numerically and technologically superior enemy, we lost because we didn’t attack Ruhr region immediately upon entering WW2. While the Germans were concentrating on Poland and before Hitler was able to turn full attention to France. They should have preempted the May 1940 invasion of France that caught the Allies by surprise with their own offensive actions.

I’m sure I remeber a German General making exactly that claim and militarily it seems 100pc plausible. But politically very difficult to invade a country on the basis that it’s invaded some other places and probably going to invade you. Might have been hard to get America onside if we could be portrayed as the aggressors.

It swings both ways, all sides were building up – one in three German tanks used in the invasion of France was built in Czechoslovakia.

Yeah, I think that’s the flaw in the case, if there is one. For delay to be a good idea the delay has to be shown to benefit France/Britain over Germany. I think it’s beyond dispute that Hitler wanted a quick war and that Munich denied him that. But whether a quick war *really* would have benefited Hitler perhaps is debatable, or at least none of us has come up with facts to prove/disprove it.

Kind of wrong really here – the German army was still in a bit of a sorry state in 1938. We were better poised to take control of the situation in 1938 than we were in 1939. The Hurricanes would have coped with the early B-D model 109s.

Not sure how many hurricanes there were, wasn’t the RAF still largely biplanes? But yeah, no quarrel with that point, which I address above.

There was absolutely nothing attritional about it

LOL, arguing that WW2 wasn’t attritional?! It was one of the most attritional wars in history. Almost all the belligerents spent vast amounts of effort in trying to gradually wear down each other’s military capacity. It went on for years and ended in the total destruction of Germany. It’s really hard to see how there could have been any more attrition.

the only thing that bought Britain sufficient time to defend itself was the sea.

Without the RAF and Navy to make it difficult to cross the sea isn’t an obstacle at all, by 1940 the UK was producing Aircraft and Pilots hand over fist.

Maybe, but that wasn’t necessarily a good thing, and Chamberlain wasted the opportunity (before and after Munich) for full-scale rearmament and negotiating an alliance with the Soviets.

Negotiate with the Soviets who at that point had a non-aggression pact with Germany and were about to join Germany in dividing up Poland? I don’t think the Soviets looked like a potential ally until Barbarossa(sp?).

proper impartial investigation

You mean that Trump is putting America First? Who Knew?

Well… all of us. Which makes the fawning attitude of the Brexies like Boris and Fox even more inexplicable. They rail against the EU, yet want to get us straight into a trade del with another administration that we all know will **** us over as soon as look at us.

Its like a weird mix of Stockholm syndrome and a rape fantasy

Heres the problem – I’m clever enough to understand that opinions are like arseholes – everyone has one, and they all stink. thats why I seldom express my own, I’ve got enough self awareness to recognise that its just that, my opinion.

Its only because you constantly, repeatedly, incessantly whinge about Trump that I really enjoy picking up on what you say by pointing out your complete and utter inconsistency and hypocrisy.

For what it’s worth that’s always been my take on Ninfan. Certainly, consistent with his posts AFAIC.

>”Trump’s not going to become president, right?”

>”No, we’ll stop it

Yep one text message between 2 FBI agents, I’m sure if we checked all the text messages sent in the last 3 years we would find some fun stuff out. Not hard to add some context there is it. (actually a quick google of the phrase probable says it is as it’s hitting big with tweets/FB/Reddit from the Trmupers who think it’s a way out when the get caught.

I hope nobody is relying on that grand conspiracy there.

consistent and no opinions?

Because theyre the same sad ******* that protest everything. Go and have a look sometime, whatever the issue: NHS, immigration, anti-capitalism, Brexit, animal rights, Israel, GMO’s, Anti nuclear protests, fracking, everything  – it’s always the same old characters, the same bunch of students, the same dog on a string brigade, the same bored middle class housewives. It’s the highlight of their sad social lives.

There is consistency there, like defending mob bosses in court

consistent and no opinions?

A short while ago the problem with Ninfan was he doesn’t post *enough* opinion, now he’s posting too much.  That was a quick turn around!

The question about whether anyone here’s attending a protest- I can’t make these, but I highly recommend you do, because if nothing else it’ll be eyeopening when you see it on the news later (or not) and realise how misrepresented it is.

And “Two years Later Donald took his job and threw him and his family out of their house” might just be peak Ninfan.

That was a quick turn around!

He has plenty of opinions and expresses them, just like to pretend not to when pushed on certain topics.

I see he has now replaced his 2 texts with a transcript of what looks like a conversation that probably went on between a huge number of people and probably reads like a page from here.

If that is the conspiracy then good luck again….

Whilst I await nincompoopfan’s magisterial explanations for my previous examples of Trump’s failures and just to be going on with; perhaps, ninpoop,  you can explain how Trump’s promise to revitalise the coal industry by mining “beautiful, clean coal” (whatever that is) remains a complete failure after adding just 500 actual mining jobs since 2016 with thousands of former miners still unemployed?