Viewing 40 posts - 4,481 through 4,520 (of 22,966 total)
  • Donald! Trump!
  • ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Bernie Sanders is probably very aware that in all likelihood the people who are going to benefit most from trump’s presidency are billionaire white men.

    Well he should say so instead of praising Trump’s decision to scrap TPP.

    Bernie Sanders supports Trump’s TPP order while McCain criticizes opting out

    I suspect Bernie Sanders will do the sensible thing and wait to see how things pan out. Perhaps a few other people should?

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    TPP was not even signed by the Congress , a lot of noise for nothing .

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    TPP was very dear to Obama’s heart. Or does Obama’s legacy count for nothing now?

    A week certainly is a long time in politics, eh?

    The Trans-Pacific Partnership Will Help Define President Obama’s Legacy

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

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    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    it is , lets see what next week is going to bring . 😆

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Do we have to wait? Can’t we prejudge?

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    I got a call from Tim Cook at Apple, and I said, “Tim, you know one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you’re making your product right here.”
    He said, “I understand that.”

    I said: “I think we’ll create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you’ll be happy about.”

    And then Tim said what?….. Trump doesn’t go on to tell us nothing of what Tim said next. He didn’t tell us what Bill Gates said when he asked him to switch off the internet either. 🙂

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Do we have to wait? Can’t we prejudge?

    No need to wait, we can also judge him on his withdrawal of support for NGOs who provide abortion information. Silly women, getting all upset and marching at the weekend, eh?

    DrJ
    Full Member

    I can’t wait to see traditional press getting hammered in the digital interweb era. This will truly challenge the way information is consumed especially when President Trump starts to confront the traditional media head on his way.

    Really? What percentage of Americans actually have Twitter accounts and rely on it for news? Trump will start off making out he can bypass the media, but after a while he will have to acknowledge reality.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Im not surprised he axed the womens health NGO funding, weve seen he likes to mock women for having periods

    The largest ever global protest against anyone?? seem to have been right hes not just a sexit bigot, he is dangerous to women

    childbirth is after all the biggest cause of death for women of child bearing, especially adolescent girls, in the developing world
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs348/en/

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Some Epic trolling of Trump around. really making me laugh.

    ON a more serious note he had a court action raised against him today as he is in breach of the constitution by taking money from foreign governments as his buisnesses have government contracts form other countries and he is still the beneficiary. I suspect he will spend so much time and energy tioed up in lawsuits that he won’t actually be ableto do much

    El-bent
    Free Member

    But and this is a big but, how as a free marketeer and fellow libertarian meritocracist (I’ve got the distinct impression that you are) – how, just how, can you defend Trumps protectionism? Can you please enlighten me?

    isn’t it obvious? Lunatic Brexiters are one the most hypocritical bunch around, they are DESPERATE to sign a deal. They would sell the UK down the river, and like with the trump supporters, will ignore stuff like “protectionism” if the President promises one thing: Any kind of trade deal.

    The most ominous word being “ANY” in that sentence.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I seem to remember that TPP ranged from vaguely disliked to outright hated on this site (views from the whole political spectrum seemed to agree). Regardless of who killed it, surely it’s just a good thing that it’s dead?

    Seems to me (I don’t give a stuff about brexit) that the most hypocritical bunch around are those who like democracy until it doesn’t give them the result they want, then proceed to blame anything and everything on “thick” people who don’t agree with them.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    wrecker – Member
    I seem to remember that TPP ranged from vaguely disliked to outright hated on this site (views from the whole political spectrum seemed to agree). Regardless of who killed it, surely it’s just a good thing that it’s dead?

    I think thatd be TTIP you are thinking of, doubt weve discussed TPP

    but principles are similar

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Looks like the TTIP is next on the menu!

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    I would think so. It’s already on shaky ground so another easy win early on

    slowoldman
    Full Member
    molgrips
    Free Member

    Is there a way in which Trump can encourage companies to manufacture in the US without damaging the consumer economy?

    For things like consumer electronics, there’s no way that the US can compete. The working arrangement with the Far Eastern companies is more like a partnership that’s mutually beneficial. But are there other areas of industry where US industry needs that kind of protection? Cars maybe?

    just5minutes
    Free Member

    “For things like consumer electronics, there’s no way that the US can compete.”

    I’m not sure I completely buy this – it’s true for some consumer electronics but also untrue for others.

    If we take the example of apple – their profit margin is enormous. On a $600-$900 iPhone the factory gate cost is below $225 and that includes labour – so even if labour costs changed from $10 to $40 per unit the profit margin is still massively out of line with other industries, and then we have to allow to apple’s well proven tax avoidance structures which has led to them having $220b in cash on their books – google, Microsoft and apple have over $1.6 trillion in cash between them.

    So (through gritted teeth), fair play to Trump – if he forces companies like Apple to create jobs and invest in the market that provides so much of their profit then good on him.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    But are there other areas of industry where US industry needs that kind of protection? Cars maybe?

    Maybe by making a product that is good? Remember the German minister when asked why the Americans lived bmw/Mercedes not good old American cars and he pointed out that the US models were just crap on comparison.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    molgrips – Member
    Is there a way in which Trump can encourage companies to manufacture in the US without damaging the consumer economy?

    Incentives or sanctions you choose. First, try the incentive but they don’t play ball hit them hard. Very hard, after all when is the next chance to do so with the support of the Merican people?

    For things like consumer electronics, there’s no way that the US can compete. The working arrangement with the Far Eastern companies is more like a partnership that’s mutually beneficial. But are there other areas of industry where US industry needs that kind of protection? Cars maybe?

    Of course they can if they have a will. Look at the Far East they have the will so they can compete. Without the will nothing happens. As for mutual benefits yes of course there are so long as the approach is balanced on both sides. The far east will not go head on with trade disagreement so will work a way out. Give and take. Forget about full blown war coz that is not going to happen. If there is a war rhetoric it is there to wind up the press only … give them some rating back. 😆

    zigzag69
    Free Member

    maccruiskeen – Member

    I got a call from Tim Cook at Apple, and I said, “Tim, you know one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you’re making your product right here.”
    He said, “I understand that.”

    I said: “I think we’ll create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you’ll be happy about.”

    And then Tim said what?….. Trump doesn’t go on to tell us nothing of what Tim said next. He didn’t tell us what Bill Gates said when he asked him to switch off the internet either.
    Tim probably told him to call someone at Foxconn, since these are the guys that own the plants that make Apple products.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Ironically TPP was intended to move southeast asian countries away from China
    Xi Jinping has already started sounding out the the other 11 nations if they want to replicate the deal with China rather than America. (not sure how likely that is to fly)

    TPP was also meant to include a renegotiation of NAFTA, which will now be done separately

    It was estimated that TPP would add 357bn to the US economy
    https://piie.com/publications/working-papers/economic-effects-trans-pacific-partnership-new-estimates

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Looks like the TTIP is next on the menu!

    It’s already long dead. Trump will just walk up to the decomposing corpse and claim he shot it.

    On a $600-$900 iPhone the factory gate cost is below $225 and that includes labour – so even if labour costs changed from $10 to $40 per unit the profit margin is still massively out of line with other industries

    As I pointed out when this came up before: small amounts matter a lot at these scales. I’ve worked with device manufacturers who will rejig a whole design to save a few pence on a component.

    Foxconn’s Zhengzhou factory produces 500,000 iPhones a day!

    So a $10 to $40 per unit increase is the difference between $5 million a day bill and a $20 million a day bill.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    On a $600-$900 iPhone the factory gate cost is below $225 and that includes labour

    Are you talking about $225 to manufacture or $225 including all research and development costs? And are you including all the licenses and development costs of the software running on the phones that don’t get made in the factory. Apple is a profitable company but their profits isn’t more than 50% of their turnover in the way your example suggest – its more like 20% – even though a lot of the their income comes for things that aren’t physically manufactured- like iTunes sales commission, software etc

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    There are talks of Apple starting to sell a TV , made in the US for the sole purpose of pleasing Trump .

    chewkw
    Free Member

    kimbers – Member
    Ironically TPP was intended to move southeast asian countries away from China
    Xi Jinping has already started sounding out the the other 11 nations if they want to replicate the deal with China rather than America. (not sure how likely that is to fly)

    TPP was also meant to include a renegotiation of NAFTA, which will now be done separately

    It was estimated that TPP would add 357bn to the US economy
    https://piie.com/publications/working-papers/economic-effects-trans-pacific-partnership-new-estimates

    We don’t need TPP to not buy Chinese products in SE Asia. 😆
    If you value your health you simply avoid buying Chinese product food related wise. 😆
    Chinese manufacturers have tarnished their own names by creating so many fakes people just don’t trust them anymore. No need TPP coz we just avoid them … 😆
    People mostly buy locally made brand now coz imported brands are expensive and Chinese products have bad reputation …
    On the other hand China just buy up all our natural resources … their demand is very high. Palm oil anyone?

    torsoinalake
    Free Member

    There are talks of Apple starting to sell a TV , made in the US for the sole purpose of pleasing Trump

    Will it only broadcast Trump TV? Alternative facts 24/7.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Look at the Far East they have the will so they can compete.

    Yes they also have a labour-based society where people are prepared to live and eat on-site, work very long hours and get paid $283 a month.

    I’m not sure how many Americans would be up for that. Maybe they’ll get the Mexicans to do it for them? 😉

    Anyways, for anyone interested here is a nice in-depth NY Times article about the workings of Foxconn, the Zhengzhou factory and the various incentives and subsidies that Foxconn receive from the Chinese government.

    (Good journalism that – the kind of thing that is difficult to replicate in 140 characters and hashtags)

    kimbers
    Full Member

    We don’t need TPP to not buy Chinese products in SE Asia.

    well seeing as they manage to sell $ half a trillion worth of stuff to the rest of Asia a year, youd better hope they dont get their act together 😆

    My light bicycle rims are still rocking!

    chewkw
    Free Member

    GrahamS – Member
    Yes they also have a labour-based society where people are prepared to live and eat on-site, work very long hours and get paid $283 a month.

    They are hardy people with thinking totally different from West. Those are the lucky ones who still have a job. The unlucky ones perish without anyone knowing.

    I’m not sure how many Americans would be up for that. Maybe they’ll get the Mexicans to do it for them?

    Well, there is a will there is a way. i.e. tariff might be one way so long as both side agrees. If there is a disagreement the Far East will hurt much more because they just have 17 million increase in population in one year. Yes, 17 million new babies.

    Anyways, for anyone interested here is a nice in-depth NY Times article about the workings of Foxconn, the Zhengzhou factory and the various incentives and subsidies that Foxconn receive from the Chinese government.

    Yes, the govt needs Foxconn to feed the people and they subsidies them. I guess now they just have to come up with another brand called pear.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    kimbers – Member

    We don’t need TPP to not buy Chinese products in SE Asia.

    well seeing as they manage to sell $ half a trillion worth of stuff to the rest of Asia a year, youd better hope they dont get their act together

    My light bicycle rims are still rocking! [/quote]

    Some products we take a risk on as we know we can use it for a while but generally people avoid. They are cheap … at the expense of your own medical bills. 😆

    Of course there are still Chinese products everywhere but know the quality … plenty of “poundland” quality btw.

    Yes, even fake goods have grading. Grade 4 is the best fake. Gucci anyone?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    TPP was not even signed by the Congress , a lot of noise for nothing .

    What Chris says, it’s highly unlikely the Republican Congress would ever have enacted it not least becase Obama was a big fan (ref @Ernie’s point)

    @wrecker TTIP was already dead

    Trump has been quite clear he favours bilateral deals between countries. As per the press conf today Trump sees no reason why a small country would benefit in the same way as a large one with regard to access to the US market. As such “trade blocks” don’t interest him. Trump absolutely gets the fact that a wealthy country which is a major net importer is the one who should hold the upper hand in a trade negotiation.

    Is there a way in which Trump can encourage companies to manufacture in the US without damaging the consumer economy?

    As I posted elsewhere the margin on Apple products is huge, they couod manufacture in the US and just make a smaller profit, a smaller profit is what Trump will ensure if he puts import tariffs on phones/ipads. Apple had invested in a Phoenix Gorilla Glass plant in Arizona to manufacture in US, it was the technology which didn’t work not the economics of production.

    I find it odd people are (quite rightly) against rampant tax evasion by companies such as Apple but support production in China at the expense of American jobs.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Trump absolutely gets the fact that a wealthy country which is a major net importer is the one who should hold the upper hand in a trade negotiation.

    I think that is what we have been pointing out about UK/US trade negotiation and UK/EU ones – we are not in the stronger position.
    As for the import taxes etc. it will be a good test to see if he can establish credibility and impartiality. The list of his own branded gerar that is made in China/Mexico/Anywhere not called America is there for all to see. Will he his sons stump up or bring the production to the US.

    Apple will probably work out which is the most cost effective way to pay the tax be it on devices or profits. As with all of these the key indicator will be the bottom line, does the US create more and does the import tarrif compensate for people not.

    As for Bernie a few pages back I need to re read it though but it mostly looks like a simply baited trap. He will help but on his terms, JC could probably learn something there. If it’s going to be benificial for the ordinary working American then he is in. If it’s not then he isn’t.

    As with anything the regulations people want rid of are the ones that will hurt profits/people most.

    I tell you, one thing I would say, so, I’m giving a big tax cut and I’m giving big regulation cuts, and I’ve seen all of the small business owners over the United States, and all of the big business owners, I’ve met so many people. They are more excited about the regulation cut than about the tax cut. And I would’ve never said that’s possible, because the tax cut’s going to be substantial. You know we have companies leaving our country because the taxes are too high. But they’re leaving also because of the regulations.

    Sums it up really.

    and some gems I spotted reading back through

    @seso Americans respect people who have made money. What they hate are the politicians who want go get rich by allowing themselves to be bought.

    Lets see how that goes then shall we….

    jambalaya
    Free Member
    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    If it’s going to be benificial for the ordinary working American then he is in. If it’s not then he isn’t.

    Er, yeah…….wasn’t that obvious then?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Five things you’ve got wrong about Donald Trump

    But according to Anthony Scaramucci, who from Friday will head up the White House Office for Public Liaison, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Context, context, context…

    Just like when you studied history take a closer look and ask yourself these things.
    Who is saying this?
    Why are they saying it?
    What do they want?

    If it’s one thing we really know is that he has trouble remembering what he sys, denies sayuing things that were recorded on TV and ultimatly needs a crack team running around behind him fixing all of the screw ups and tweets

    It’s probably a good job that he now has a time machine

    edit

    ernie_lynch – Member

    If it’s going to be benificial for the ordinary working American then he is in. If it’s not then he isn’t.

    Er, yeah…….wasn’t that obvious then?[/quote]
    To some and others probably not

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    As I posted elsewhere the margin on Apple products is huge

    That article I linked states: “A 32-gigabyte iPhone 7 costs an estimated $400 to produce. It retails for roughly $649 in the United States, with Apple taking a piece of the difference as profit”

    I find it odd people are (quite rightly) against rampant tax evasion by companies such as Apple but support production in China at the expense of American jobs.

    I wouldn’t say I “support” it – I just recognise the reality of it.

    China has a deliberately depressed currency, a burgeoning population desperate for jobs, little respect for things like workers rights or environmental safety, and a government that will plough in billions of subsidies, tax breaks and state-run dormitories to keep those jobs going. The factory city itself is a special “bonded zone”, virtual foreign soil with customs controls at the gates.

    And even then Foxconn are currently producing 10,000 “Foxbots” a year to replace the meatbags on the production lines.

    Are these really the jobs Americans want back? The ones that were in the news a couple of years ago due to the terrible conditions and high suicide rates? The ones that are already being automated away?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Are these really the jobs Americans want back? The ones that were in the news a couple of years ago due to the terrible conditions and high suicide rates? The ones that are already being automated away?

    And don’t forget the coal mines – who in their right mind wants to be a miner? Americans want dole not coal. Or at least they should.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    The TPP thing is pretty funny- lots of people who were against it when Bernie spoke against it, now think Trump’s the devil for cancelling it. It looked like a dog’s breakfast to me and there was much about it that outright sucked but people seem to be forgetting its underlying purpose, ie, tie other nations to the US and draw them away from China. It’s a complicated thing being painted in very simple terms, so I think what matters is what happens next more than what happened today…

    The hiring freeze seems to basically a stupid stunt- the GAO did a pretty definitive takedown of Reagan’s freeze and found that it cost money, disrupted agencies, and didn’t effectively control recruitment anyway. (shocking discovery- short term contracts are expensive and aren’t a good way to retain expertise, and labour requirements don’t go away just because the boss signed a thing) It’s no substitute for an actual strategic change of direction but you can’t do that in 140 characters.

    The Mexico City policy just basically sucks but it’s something that previous administrations have done so it’s kind of traditional at this point. But it could be symbolic or it could be the first shots fired in an anti-choice war.

    molgrips – Member

    Is there a way in which Trump can encourage companies to manufacture in the US without damaging the consumer economy?

    He’s alluding to absolutely massive incentives for companies, which presumably he’ll pay for with mumble mumble hey look up there a dead bird! Of course at the same time he’s making publically pleasing threats. Remains to be seen which he’ll actually follow through and how.

    It might actually be possible, nobody really knows but it’s not happening in a large scale in a single term- it’s just not possible to create the capacity. 2, 3 terms? Maybe, with billions of dollars of “incentives”. But even the most optimistic supporters of this sort of thing see a medium-long term transition period where it’s simply impossible to relocate whole industries in the timescale, and yet the measures needed to make it happen all have to be active. So if you’re doing it punitively, there’s simply no way for companies to avoid that.

    So again we’re talking about things that can only work as massive, long term projects being talked about as if you can just say “change this” and have it happen, and in simplistic terms like “build a factory” and not mentioning that Foxconn has “factories” that are essentially city-states. The scale is mindboggling…

    Their Shenzhen complex is pretty much the size of Miami, and it’s taken 30 years to build. That one facility (you really can’t say factory) would be the US’s 3rd biggest employer, only after Walmart and the US government. And this stuff only works because they have workers that are happy to work 6 day weeks and 12 hour days and live in their Foxconn barrack town and watch the Foxconn TV channel and buy from the Foxxconn corporate store and go to the Foxconn hospital to have their babies…

    OTOH they plan to invest half a billion dollars in Brazil to build factories that employ 10000. That sort of thing’s feasible but it’s no gamechanger.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    And don’t forget the coal mines – who in their right mind wants to be a miner? Americans want dole not coal. Or at least they should.

    Yes, whats the reeal issue with coal ernie? It’s not a desire to put those guys out of work it’s to clean up energy production and move away from a carbon dependant society for the benifit of the planet.
    The issue really was not finding ways to increase and stimulate the economies that were impacted. Reducing environmental controls and heading back to coal for energy is a backwards step in the world.

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