Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 196 total)
  • Dogs at trail centres. What's all that about then?
  • stilltortoise
    Free Member

    if the dog is under close control tho?

    Ooh, I feel a slight twist in the argument coming up. Can a dog owner ever be 100% confident their dog is under close control at all times? Someone up this page somewhere has already said no. Children mauled by dogs who are "…always well behaved, honest your honour" would say no too. Mmm, me thinks I may have made too big a twist in the argument. I'm off

    rkk01
    Free Member

    Would all the "live-and-let-live" types on this post feel the same if you went down to GT/Cannock/Afan/Whinlatter this weekend and found….

    I'm not aware that it is about "how I would feel" or "live and let live".

    My understanding (which could well be wrong), was that it was about the legal issues around liability / negligence for being in control (or not)etc.

    I ride at Afan – I work on the basis that I am at least partly responsible if I hit another trail user through not being in control (ie not being able to stop / evade within my visible distance).

    Whether they are a family having a toddlers picnic in the middle of Whites Level matters not a jot. Several times I have had stop for walkers hiking up the Wall final descent – bloody inconvenient, but (I believe) they had as much right to be there as I had…

    mattbee
    Full Member

    As far as liability goes I would take responsibility foor my dog causing an accident (as opposed to just being in one) in the same way as if it was me involved. As long as that attitude is in place and the dog is allowed to be where we are, off the lead then I am confident that the chances of him causing a problem for other trail users is insignificant to the point of not being an issue.
    He's my dog, I love him to bits. I certainly don't want to see him injured by colliding with another trail user in the same way as not wanting a farmer with a worried sheep putting a load of buckshot into him therefore keeping him on the lead when near livestock or on farm land.

    We don't go to Cwm Carn with him anymore after checking with the visitors centre in March this year about sheep on the trail and being told that they were there.

    hora
    Free Member

    http://mbwales.com/en/content/cms/Centres/Cwmcarn/Cwmcarn.aspx

    People who ride the trails with dogs off the lead. Please feel free to contact the trail centres and ask if they allow your dogs onto the trail.

    Would you do this? I'd be more than happy if the trail centres cameback and said 'no problem'.

    Can you guess their answer or are you people who do this ignoring this question for a reason? 😉

    SirJonLordofBike1
    Free Member

    Just no

    rich-6
    Free Member

    To the OP, would you have happened to be at GT on Friday late afternoon by anychance? I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffs 😳

    Got a bit sketchy 😯

    midgebait
    Free Member

    Well, took my dog to Kielder to try the new blue route and ummm… didn't see another person there.

    Not really a problem in that case so perhaps the usual STW black or white response to a discussion may not apply?

    hora
    Free Member

    Yet again:

    Ask the trail centre if dogs are permitted on the trail and off the lead?

    When we know the answer then you'll either know if its right or wrong huh?

    grumm
    Free Member

    I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffs

    Well obviously you shouldn't have been going off the drop-offs unless you had first checked the landing for dogs running around. All your fault.

    midgebait
    Free Member

    When we built the trails at Kielder we always had in mind that dogs would be welcome 🙂

    BIGMAN
    Free Member

    I got bitten by a dog at FOD on Friday! The owners said it was my fault because the dog was scared of bikes!!

    Why walk your dog in a cycling area!!! FFS!!!

    They were downright rude! I did not get there details because i wanted to stop the bleeding so went back to the cycle rental place…

    rich-6
    Free Member

    I almost mowed some chaps dogs over in the freeride park on the 3 dropoffs

    Well obviously you shouldn't have been going off the drop-offs unless you had first checked the landing for dogs running around. All your fault.

    Was clear on the walk up!

    hora
    Free Member

    There is no legal restriction to stop riders/dogs from using their trails- the key issue is whether the dog owner is being responsible.

    If your dog causes and accident you could be liable. It may be argued that you (the owner) are held liable knowing how many others use the trails.
    You (the dog owner) need to consider this if someone is injured, hospitalised or wheelchair-bound due to your dogs actions.

    The RSPCA may also question running of a dog for a number of miles. Many officers take a dim view as they consider it is not natural for a dog to run on the trails for significant distances.

    The bottom line is they can not stop you from taking your dog onto the trail but you must be aware of the potential legal implications as it could be deemed as not being responsible.

    This is is a cut-down edited version as I do not want to publish and email sent to me onto a public forum. My emails in my profile if anyone wants to see the full email.

    So, for me its a case of early morning/off-peak and the dog runs behind the rider not infront and the understanding (to me) 'causing an accident' isn't clear-cut. i.e. It might not just be simply running into a dog or swerving to avoid, or the dog acting as an obstacle on a section but also the dog suddenly appearing alongside a rider infront who is then startled and falls off?

    Surely its better just to ride a natural/bridleway trail and let the purpose-built mountain bike trails to be used solely by mountain bikers?

    mattbee
    Full Member

    " hora – Member
    Yet again:
    Ask the trail centre if dogs are permitted on the trail and off the lead?
    When we know the answer then you'll either know if its right or wrong huh?"

    Well, to save anyone else the hassle I have checked with (before visiting):

    Cwm Carn, they are allowed but there have been a few problems with sheep worrying (not bikers dogs apparently but may not be worth the risk unless you are sure your dog is fine with the sheep)

    Afan/Glyncorrwig, dogs are allowed.

    Coed y Brenin allow them too.

    All 'in control', so it comes back to the usual, if you can control your dog when off the lead you can let them run free, if you can't they should be on the lead.

    grumm
    Free Member

    Was clear on the walk up!

    I was joking 🙂

    Just imagining what the dog lovers would have said.

    hora
    Free Member

    mattbee hence my post above. The question isnt sheep for me its a question of risk and the unforeseeable. Is this an acceptable risk?

    Surf-Mat
    Free Member

    TBH I stopped riding with our dog (small black lab) and I decided it was too harsh for her. A mate of mine rode with his black lab all the time and by the age of 2, it's hips were shot to pieces. Bike speeds are too fast for a dog IMO – any dog.

    I run with ours a lot and that's a great pace for her – quick enough to keep her going, slow enough to not cause issues.

    As for dog control – ours is very very obedient but you still need to factor in unexpected stuff when they are off the lead – a rabbit appearing, another dog turning up, etc – always keep them fairly close.

    lookmanohands
    Free Member

    The RSPCA may also question running of a dog for a number of miles. Many officers take a dim view as they consider it is not natural for a dog to run on the trails for significant distances

    mmmmmm so, something like a border collie – a working dog – should not be running for 10/15 miles???? try telling a farmer that 😯

    mattbee
    Full Member

    I agree about he whole acceptable risk thing, but also think you can take it too far.
    As I see it, as long as my dog is running in front of me, or in between me and my wife within a few bike lengths, I can control him. As such I choose trails more on length, substrate and proximity to water when we take the dog. As a side effect of my preference for quiet trails we are also rerely out at 'peak' times.

    As with anything in life though there are those who do not take the same attitude to responsibility. I would be more concerned though by non widers/walkers with dogs on 'biking' trails as their dogs are more likely to react badly to bikes. At least my dog knows what happens when he gets too close to one!

    hora
    Free Member

    mmmmmm so, something like a border collie – a working dog – should not be running for 10/15 miles???? try telling a farmer that

    Agree but collies are not run consistently over a distance though are they?

    Dogs are eager to please their master. For instance my dog- Bingo (possibly the leanest and biggest Westie that I have seen) would run beyond his capability to please me. So I always run him ahead of my bike so that he sets the pace. You couldnt do this safely at a trail centre though as the rider needs to see whats ahead first IMO.

    lookmanohands
    Free Member

    🙄

    cant be arsed with this………..

    rich-6
    Free Member

    I was joking

    Just imagining what the dog lovers would have said.

    lol, I'm just too slow

    i think its ace seeing dogs out on the trail and i always giggle when following my mates lab round a berm and it proper RAILS it!!! When I get another dog I will defo take it out with me!

    We took my mate Ben's dog Jake out round cwm carn and brechfa and he was very popular, faster then 90% of people and is fixated on my back wheel so doesnt really get in anyone else's way!

    thv3
    Free Member

    Bike speeds are too fast for a dog IMO – any dog.

    Hmmm, not for a whippet/greyhound. Haven't outrun her yet, and not for want of trying.

    Our whippet would go daft if she didn't get a regular run with the bike. That being said I don't take her to trail centres, although I'm sure she would love it. I personally like seeing dogs out and about with MTBers, but would not want to impose ours on anyone who wouldn't share the same view.

    I will never forget being up Minch moor on the Innerleithen red, in more than a foot of snow, in blizzard conditions, on the bike, suffering from the cold and seeing a wee Westy appear coming up the trail.

    The snow was higher than the dog! Thought I was hallucinating!!

    It was a couple of minutes before the owner appeared, on a Rocky Mountain Blizzard of all things!

    Still one of the most surreal moments in my life to this day!

    surfer
    Free Member

    THV3 I would challenge that.

    Whippets and Greyhounds are bred for short intensive bursts of activity and the last thing they enjoy (from what I have read/heard) is sustained exercise.
    Of course they would outrun any cyclist but I suspect they would not be good over an extended period of even a few miles.
    Of course you may know better.

    neil853
    Free Member

    its a judgement call, if its a weekend where its busy its a stupid idea, if its mid week and quiet its possible. Trail centres are designed to seperate user groups and avoid conflict, this is doing the opposite of that 🙄

    thv3
    Free Member

    Hi Surfer,

    I am afraid what you have read or heard is not representative of the facts.

    Racing whippets and greyhounds are indeed bred for short bursts of high speed. However, it is common practice for these dogs to do extended runs of 10 miles or more daily as part of their training regimes. Obviously these are not done at full speed.

    I have been taking out our Whippet from when she was about 6 months, slowly increasing the distance in line with what she seems happy with. This started as a 2 mile cycle, and currently the longest loop she does is now about 14 miles at 18 months of age. She gets plenty treats, water and rest if she looks like she needs it.

    The key as always is being sensible about it, and not doing to much for either the dog or the rider!

    surfer
    Free Member

    Thv3.

    I see. I've never owned one so wasnt approaching it from personal experience however Daisy Duke has had a couple of rescue Greyhounds and a couple of Lurchers and is of this opinion.
    I agree with you that training (as with people) is key to performance, although dogs have a head start in terms of breeding!
    I ran with a friends fit looking Cocker Spaniel and it was exhausted after a couple of miles whilst my Lakeland will run for up to 10 miles easily!

    Fantastic looking dog by the way!

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Agree but collies are not run consistently over a distance though are they?

    Really? Our neighbour ran his behind the landrover when it was younger, so it would cover 3 miles at car speeds, do a mornings work, run back, run out gaain, do an afternoons work then run home. He was even known too take himself for big walks if he got bored.

    simonfbarnes
    Free Member

    although dogs have a head start in terms of breeding!

    I can't work out what that means 🙁 Is it a call to eugenics ?

    surfer
    Free Member

    I can't work out what that means Is it a call to eugenics ?

    No because Eugenics only referes to the selective breeding of humans!

    I was comparing the performance of dogs who are selectively bred over a relatively short period to be particulalrly good at a certain thing, fighting, running etc or simply to be big or small.
    This means that greyhounds have a tendancy to perform better than Daschunds at running at high speed, nothing to do with fitness or training but largely due to one breed possessing physical characteristics that the other doesnt, in this instance long legs.

    But you knew all that you just wanted to use the word eugenics didnt you.

    simonfbarnes
    Free Member

    But you knew all that you just wanted to use the word eugenics didnt you.

    well, the use of the word 'head start' in that context made me wonder if you thought the same benefits should be extended (compelled upon) people ? Dogs do have an advantage at running around and barking at things but these are not traits highly valued in humans…

    surfer
    Free Member

    well, the use of the word 'head start' in that context made me wonder if you thought the same benefits should be extended (compelled upon) people ?

    Why on earth did you think that Simon? What convinced you to make that leap from trail dogs and the relatively uncontroversial practice of dog breeding, to the selective breeding of humans?

    I'm at a loss to see the link.

    Could it be that eugenics is a bit of hobby horse of yours?

    mendip
    Free Member

    To be honest, it's cruel to dogs to keep up their's idiot/muppet owners on the bikes and it's dangerous aswell causing an injury either on dog or bike riders when things goes wrong. 😡

    These people who do this should never be allowed to own dogs! 🙄

    simonfbarnes
    Free Member

    Could it be that eugenics is a bit of hobby horse of yours?

    not that I've ever noticed…

    Frankenstein
    Free Member

    Don't mind dogs but if they cause me to smash my full susser and breaking it or they attack me then the owner should be prepared to pay out or I am going to cook the owner and dog.

    mattbee
    Full Member

    Aaah, the welcome return of reasoned argument to the thread.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    To Whoever this concerns. If I break your dog by my combined weight of me & Mr Orange (bout 200lbs) or if me or Mr Orange are broken by your negligence in controlling your mutt….I won't be happy & WILL hold you responsible.

    ditch_jockey
    Full Member

    Well it did last a reasonable length of time before we heard the sound of dragging knuckles!

    My Border Collies come out with me fairly regularly, but I'm not sure I'd want to take them to a trail centre unless I was pretty certain it was going to be pretty quiet. Biking with the dogs is great fun and in all the years I've had farm bred collies i've not had a problem. If you want a dog for this kind of thing, you need to get one from appropriate stock – I've seen the parents of my youngest dog work their way over the side of a hill to bring in sheep with a speed and grace that is breathtaking. Took me about 30 mins to get her running at the rear left of my bike and she falls in there on command now for roads or oncoming cyclists. That's the huge advantage of collies – quick to learn and love to work.

    surfer
    Free Member

    Aaah, the welcome return of reasoned argument to the thread.

    It would appear that reasoned arguments fail with dog lovers whose animals are always under control and would never cause inconvenience to others etc. oh and love to run at 20 mph over rough terrain for hours and have done since birth.

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 196 total)

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