Right to roam/responsible access also states that cyclists should give way to other users. Don’t see that one being adhered to all that often either. Maybe I should carry a stick for their spokes, that should teach them to stay away.

angeldust – Member

Ta chaps – nice get this back from the emotive.

Oh, the ironing

Indeed as your two posts were personal attacks on me.

Right to roam/responsible access also states that cyclists should give way to other users. Don’t see that one being adhered to all that often either. Maybe I should carry a stick for their spokes, that should teach them to stay away.

But is that the correct way to react to an uncontrolled cyclist?

They may just think you are playing with them.

Wtf are you talking about.

This one cracked me up:

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Oh and my dog is walked off lead, at least in part, because she’s nervous of large excitable dogs of which lots have owners who dont seem to care that their dogs run up to and barge around other dogs. Luckily mine is pretty much twice as fast as every other dog

Self centred attitude on display front and centre – “its the other dogs fault, not mine”. Where does your dog go once its been spooked? In what way are you in control of it? Clearly your dog doesn’t know how to behave around dogs, maybe it needs training?

Have you seen a scared dog on a lead being harassed by other dogs? What do you think is going to happen? Such a ill thought out point you have tried to make.

Actually jolmes, no. Its very much in the ‘my horse doesn’t like bikes’ category.

Don’t expose it to the things which make it skittish then. In this case, if you can control the thing, don’t take it near other dogs. Now, I can see that might be a tad compromising for dog owner however the alternative is imposing your poorly controlled animal on anyone and everyone else who happens to be in the vicinity.

Pretty much the definition of self centred.

Self centred attitude on display front and centre – “its the other dogs fault, not mine”. Where does your dog go once its been spooked? In what way are you in control of it? Clearly your dog doesn’t know how to behave around dogs, maybe it needs training?

So my dog gets chased by an aggresdive dog and its her fault for not behaving differently?? Now where’s my collection of Alanis Morrisette gone?

Have you seen a scared dog on a lead being harassed by other dogs? What do you think is going to happen? Such a ill thought out point you have tried to make.

Indeed, if my dog is on the lead and I see other aggressive dogs off the lead I’ll let her off when safe to do so, she’ll out run them easily enough and they soon give up.

Have you trained it how to behave around other dogs?

😆 looking forward to the reply to that one… 😉

So a cyclist gets chased by an aggressive dog and its their “fault for not behaving differently??” – see the point yet?

If you let your dog off the lead once its wound up/scared by such an encounter what happens when it meets some other scary thing in its path, such as a cyclist? You have no control over your potentially dangerous animal.

The argument you will now make “but I know my dog wouldn’t hurt anyone, it only ever thinks pure thoughts” is used by every imbecile dog owner to justify why their animal should be allowed free reign to intimidate and annoy everyone else. That some dogs are more dangerous than others doesn’t make a blind bit of difference to the fact that you should be keeping the animal under control.

Have you trained it how to behave around other dogs?

looking forward to the reply to that one…

Indeed! 😀

I’ve been reading this with interest as I’m a MTB riding dog owner, who often meets dog owners who haven’t got a freakin clue as to how to control their dogs. Personally (having a beautifully trained and behaving dog) I don’t think there’s a lot one can do about it. Just like you look out for poor drivers when on the road, you look out for poorly trained dogs when in the country.

My advice would be to always stop immediately, stand still and speak very firmly to the dog in a strong voice. They might not go anywhere, but they shouldn’t attack you either and then when the owner eventually turns up, you can complain about their ‘out of control’ dog and tell em to sort it out!

@ cumberlanddan – There you go again making assumptions about people you know nothing about and generalising.

As what I said on the other thread, untrained dogs shouldn’t be off lead, end of story. I think we’re on the same boat here right?

In my instance my dog will roam free as much as she likes as she is trained, is not scared of other dogs and doesn’t charge people she doesn’t know. Shes trained, I’ve spent the last two years drilling it into her and will continue to do so.

I’d love to know how you train a dog to act regarding another aggressive dog that she doesn’t know and that i don’t know. Personally i would hope we wouldn’t encounter one but do you let them fight it out? Boot the dog in the slats and get bitten in the process/beat it with a stick? Teach her to stand up for herself and get her some Fido (Judo) lessons? A quick google on this talks about dominance etc, not sure shes into that if i’m honest.

Kind of feel you are putting dog owners in one basket and saying they are all imbeciles, just the same way some car drivers call every cyclist ****.

jolmes – does your dog come to call every time? – thats the test of a dog being under control. If so its fine. all a dog owner needs to do to satisfy their legal obligations is to keep the dog under control at all times and under close control around livestock

Aye TJ, she has a bit of addiction with cheese so i just carry a bag of that around and call her to come get some. So loves cheese more than Gromit. She soon learned that if she didn’t come back straight away when she was a pup, the walk was over and she went back on the lead with no pudding (cheese).

Shes scared of cows and horses (runs to my other half and hides behind her), rolls on her tummy at sheep which is odd for a sheepdog as her natural instinct should be telling her to herd them. Not sure what rolling on her tummy tells them to do.

Have you trained it how to behave around other dogs?

Yes, the only problem being she has beem bitten by 2 German Sheppards needing stitches so she tends to keep 10m between her and them which isnt a difficult thing for a lurcher.

So a cyclist gets chased by an aggressive dog and its their “fault for not behaving differently??” – see the point yet?

Yes I can see the point but its also not one I’ve made.

If you let your dog off the lead once its wound up/scared by such an encounter what happens when it meets some other scary thing in its path, such as a cyclist? You have no control over your potentially dangerous animal.

She’s not scared of cyclists so its not really an issue, also if I called her when she’s chased she would come to me, but she tbh she deals with such dogs better than me. If it wasnt safe for her to run somewhere she wouldnt be off the lead anyway so I’m not sure what your issue is other than trying to yet again make out I’ve said something I havent.

I’ve been reading this with interest as I’m a MTB riding dog owner, who often meets dog owners who haven’t got a freakin clue as to how to control their dogs. Personally (having a beautifully trained and behaving dog) I don’t think there’s a lot one can do about it. Just like you look out for poor drivers when on the road, you look out for poorly trained dogs when in the country.

My advice would be to always stop immediately, stand still and speak very firmly to the dog in a strong voice. They might not go anywhere, but they shouldn’t attack you either and then when the owner eventually turns up, you can complain about their ‘out of control’ dog and tell em to sort it out!

If TJ is being consistent he should be along to tell you that your advice is idiotic any moment now. Or does he only do that when someone tells him he is wrong? In case you have missed it in this now rather long thread, I completely agree with the above advice btw, and it is exactly what I do. Never been bitten or bothered by a dog.

Can this thread get to 11 pages?

Give those debating I would expect nothing less.

Regardless of right and wrong I reckon a lot of people should read the book ‘In Defense of Dogs’ it is a great read and also helps you to understand how dogs see and react to the world around them. It also questions the whole ‘pack animal’ mentality espoused by Ceasar Milan and others. Turns out (according to the people who wrote the book and did years of actual scientific research) that the majorly of modern, domesticated dog breeds have nothing in common with a wolf pack

Book linky

funkmasterp

It also questions the whole ‘pack animal’ mentality espoused by Ceasar Milan and others. Turns out (according to the people who wrote the book and did years of actual scientific research) that the majorly of modern, domesticated dog breeds have nothing in common with a wolf pack

Do they reconcille that with domestic dogs forming large packs and hunting? (sometimes even killing people).

Read it and find out

TL.

Lee
No
Any more ideas?

angeldust – I have made my point, I have taken squirrelkings advice, I have apologised for my over the top behaviour earlier on this thread. Do me a favour and stop with the personal insults and baiting?

Do they reconcille that with domestic dogs forming large packs and hunting? (sometimes even killing people).

Could you cite an example of that, or are you referring to the deaths in the UK in recent years?

In the west, the domestic dog doesn’t generally get the chance to form a pack, they’re caught/shot/poisoned etc as they’re considered a nuisance.

Studies of the feral dogs of West Bengal found that dogs tend to scavenge individually and do not hunt cooperatively in the way a wolf pack does.

Taylorplayer

Could you cite an example of that, or are you referring to the deaths in the UK in recent years?

If you google “pack of dogs kill” or similar there are a surprising number of results. It seems a drunken man was eaten by dogs last month in Russia, a 24 year old woman in Manitoba in May, a 79 year old man in Kentucky also in June and a pack of dogs killed and partially ate a 65 year old woman in India recently.

I’ll bite (pun intended), just because dogs form packs under cetrain, extreme circumstances it doesn’t necessarily mean that pack has the same hierarchy or overall structure of that found with wolves. Wolf packs have a complex social structure and a lot of what we historically based our perceptions of dog behaviour on is based on captive wolf packs. Not a functioning family unit as found in the wild, but a collection of unrelated animals that would not naturally form a pack. This in turn leads to what most people see as pack behavior, when in actual fact it isn’t.

This is a discussion for a different thread though.

Your original point, that domesticated dogs have nothing in common with a wolf pack, isn’t really accurate though because it’s obvious that dogs form packs. Even if the social structures aren’t the same the fact that they form packs is a common trait and that pack will need to have some kind of structure or it’ll just fall apart.

For all we know packs of domestic dogs may well have similar structures to that of wolves in the wild, but is anyone studying them?

This is a discussion for a different thread though.

Yes, sorry of course. It would be a terrible shame to derail this thread.

Do they reconcille that with domestic dogs forming large packs and hunting?

Domestic dogs dont form packs.

Your original point, that domesticated dogs have nothing in common with a wolf pack, isn’t really accurate though because it’s obvious that dogs form packs.

And you’re basing this on newspaper stories or scientific evidence and research? More and more evidence is coming to light that removes the domestic dog from ‘the wolf in your living room’ ideas of old. An animal that has basically grown up along side man for as long as the dog has bears little resemblance to a wild Wolf.

Dogs may group together in feral packs. That is nowhere near the social structure of a wolf pack. I have a bit of background with this (studied zoology) and still read extensively on the subject of dogs and their behaviour. This will just devolve further in to pointless arguing if it continues.

Let’s agree to disagree.

funkmasterp

domesticated dog breeds have nothing in common with a wolf pack

funkmasterp

Dogs may group together in feral packs.

If you google “pack of dogs kill” or similar there are a surprising number of results. It seems a drunken man was eaten by dogs last month in Russia, a 24 year old woman in Manitoba in May, a 79 year old man in Kentucky also in June and a pack of dogs killed and partially ate a 65 year old woman in India recently.

Four people in as many months globally is hardly an outbreak. Probably more than that killed by toasters.

Domestic dogs dont form packs.

Depends on the dog.

angeldust – I have made my point, I have taken squirrelkings advice, I have apologised for my over the top behaviour earlier on this thread. Do me a favour and stop with the personal insults and baiting?

Apology accepted

Just because I used the word pack it doesn’t equate to a wolf pack. Do some reading of your own because I can’t be arsed going around in circles here. A pack of feral dogs does not have the family and subsequent social structure of a wolf pack.

Why cross out the word feral? It’s possibly the most important word of that sentence. Dogs will occasionally form packs in order to survive, but it’s not a social or natural structure like a wolf pack. It’s a part time strategy for common interests. Ergo the two are not the same and therefore a dog is not a wolf. They share a common ancestor from a long time ago and the evolutionary chain has split to such a degree that the domestic dog is far removed from the wolf. Treating a dog like a wolf and your family like a wolf pack is doing it a disservice. I was wrong to say they don’t form packs, but a pack of dogs I’d not a pack of wolves and should never be confused with one.

As I said, we’ll agree to disagree. Time to watch Preacher.

Cougar

Four people in as many months globally is hardly an outbreak. Probably more than that killed by toasters.

I’m not suggesting it’s any kind of outbreak, nor am I suggesting that it’s anything new, however it’s not exactly common knowledge that domestic breeds will form packs and kill people. I am simply pointing it out as evidence of the fact that dogs will form packs.

funkmasterp – Member

A pack of feral dogs does not have the family and subsequent social structure of a wolf pack.

No but it obviously has a social structure otherwise it’s not a pack. It’s not necessarily identical to a wolf pack, I’m not suggesting that.

Dogs will occasionally form packs in order to survive, but it’s not a social or natural structure like a wolf pack. It’s a part time strategy for common interests.

It’s a part time strategy that presumably can last as long as the lives of the dogs in the pack.

I was wrong to say they don’t form packs, but a pack of dogs I’d not a pack of wolves and should never be confused with one.

Both will kill and eat you though 😈

😆

There’s a rather unpleasant bullying undertone on here now.

Seems *some* people have recognised a certain, formerly argumentative individual is trying to change/make amends and they are going out of their collective way to bait and make capital of this. It’s not right and *they* should be **** ashamed of themselves.

Boblo – I take it that is me. thank you I am trying!

Yes I know =- very trying indeed 😉