Just because it’s pedestrianised doesn’t mean there won’t be hazards around, as we’ve seen in the video. You can’t hide behind/use pedestrianisation as a reason to not have your own responsibilities. It’s still an open, public space presumably near traffic in a town centre. Not really the same as a Centre Parks play pen is it.

You would expect it to be free of fast moving vehicles though.

Just because it’s pedestrianised doesn’t mean there won’t be hazards around, as we’ve seen in the video.

That hazard should not have been there though, hence the gaol sentence.

It is reasonable not to expect a cyclist to come tearing through an area where cycling is strictly forbidden.

You sound like an apologist, IMO.

It is becoming common now in Dutch and German residential areas to remove the distinction between road and pavement instead having one mixed use area, again it just naturally slows down drivers

I’m amazed at how much difference converting a pedestrian crossing to a ‘shared space’ in my town centre made.

It gets rid of the whole mentality of who has the right to be in the road. Pedestrians can cross safely without lights because traffic moves slower, and traffic spends far less time queuing for lights. And people don’t run out in front of buses anywhere near as much.

It is reasonable not to expect a cyclist to come tearing through an area where cycling is strictly forbidden.

In a perfect world yes.
But there are nobbers about, sadly

chip – Member

In a perfect world yes.
But there are nobbers about, sadly

One less for the next six months.

At the end of the day we can’t complain about others being irresponsible unless we are accountable as well, this nob rode in what was clearly a pedestrian area having been warned, near to children and without proper brakes- reckless and selfish .

Wow, I was NOT expecting to see a sentence that I thought was fair

If that had been my little boy I would have been absolutely fuming

27 weeks is very fair, especially as he was warned already

Personally I’m fine with people cycling in an area like that if they’re doing so slowly and safely i.e. not far off walking pace, he was going way too fast

It’s a lot more the Debra Kelly got

After drinking wine at a party
The court heard Kelly struck the businessman as he cycled home from work, sending him flying into the carriageway and his bike into the bushes.
“Kelly’s car overturned on the dual carriageway and ended up on the central reservation. She left the scene after getting a lift from a stranger in a van, but gave herself up to the police seven hours later, the court heard.”

Linky

One less for the next six months13 weeks with a on eyear supervision order whilst out on licence.[/quote

My shop is on a cross roads which is governed by traffic lights.
There is a sequence where all the lights are red and pedestrians get to cross the road while the safe to cross beeps sound.
12 seconds before the lights turn green again a sign starts a countdown.
We frequently get car drivers going through the pedestrian crossing even when the countdown commences.
Ive moaned to our PCSO and filled out an official moaning form and spoken to our police liason officer.
This week there was a police van stopped while people were crossing and a car drove through on 4 seconds to go.
The police van pulled up outside my shop so I asked the pc why he didn’t do anything about the car going through a red light.
He informed me that it wasn’t his patch.Why a copper is driving around in an area where he can’t arrest people I don’t know.
I asked him to report the problem so that pcs who can do stuff could tackle the problem.
He said that people wouldn’t go through the lights if cops were there.
I told him that people had just ignored a huge police van and that he shouldn’t worry.
THEN…this morning a push bike went beyond a red light a few feet but stopped in a forward position so that lorries could see him.
Plod then blue lighted him and made him come back.
I did intervene but obviously it’s only bikes that matter.

“Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years .“
so its the “wanton and furious” offence but highlighting the misconduct neglect element. There are no crown court guidelines for this. The only guidelines are magistrates guidelines for Dangerous Driving (which seems to be an analogous offence with the same maximum sentence.) Magistrates powers cut off at 26 weeks imprisonment. The offence clearly is worse than those contemplated by the magistrates guidelines. So the crown court judge has given him a short custodial at the lower end of his powers.
I think a dangerous driver who had knocked a toddler down dragged the child for 10 meters and caused those injuries would be certainly in the 6 month plus bracket particularly if they made off from the scene.

I let my child wander free but close in pedestrian zones they don’t learn if you tie them to your apron strings.

Cyclists can do no wrong here, and even when they do they do less wrong than those evil motorists.

Motorists getting let off lightly by other motorists (in juries etc) is a problem and should rightly be highlighted and fought against. Cyclists can’t see that they are guilty of doing the same thing with other cyclists though.

*sigh*

It’s not that at all. It’s about bringing the punishments for drivers who kill (children on the pavement) UP to this level, not a single person has said that the guy on the bike did “no wrong”, you’re just making stuff up there.

P-Jay>
Drivers seem to get away with murder (literally almost) but if one took to the pavement because they couldn’t be bothered to find a legal route and hit someone, I’d expect the book to be thrown too.

As mentioned already, drive along the pavement (illegal) and crush a little girl to death and you can expect to be found not guilty of causing death by dangerous driving despite saying “yep, that was me, I did it”.

Edit:

I think a dangerous driver who had knocked a toddler down dragged the child for 10 meters and caused those injuries would be certainly in the 6 month plus bracket

Again…van driver killed a four year old. Not guilty, although, admittedly, that’s due to the jury, not the judge, who knows what the sentence would have been if it was a guilty verdict.

particularly if they made off from the scene

It’s worth noting that, contemptible as it might be, there is no legal requirement for a bike rider to stay on the scene of a collision. A driver who left the scene would be breaking the law, a rider wouldn’t.

Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act makes it an offence for the driver of a motor vehicle to leave the scene of a crash

From http://road.cc/content/blog/228327-involved-crash-heres-modest-proposal

drive along the pavement (illegal) and crush a little girl to death

he was attempting to park on the pavement not drive along it, there is a big difference there.

I dont disagree that , in general, drivers get a light deal from juries because they also drive

[/quote]he was attempting to park on the pavement not drive along it, there is a big difference there.

Not really. The only fact is that he was on his bike. The reason why he was on his bike is utterly irrelevant.

Debra Kelly was sentenced on the basis of careless driving and she got 24 weeks in prison , that is what the judge thought her offence was worth, his words were ” though you richly deserve to go to prison.” He then suspended the sentence essentially in the interests of her baby who would otherwise have been born in prison. she also got a high unpaid work order and a massive costs order. Suspended sentence means re-offend or don’t do the order then you do the time.

“Again…van driver killed a four year old. Not guilty, although, admittedly, that’s due to the jury, not the judge, who knows what the sentence would have been if it was a guilty verdict.”
36 weeks in prison on a guilty verdict sorry the guideline does not copy and paste nicely but:-
Causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving
Road Traffic Act 1988 (section 2B)
Maximum penalty: 5 years imprisonment
minimum disqualification of 12 months, discretionary re-test
Nature of offence Starting Point Sentencing range
Careless or inconsiderate driving falling not far
short of dangerous driving
15 months custody 36 weeks–3 years
custody
Other cases of careless or inconsiderate driving 36 weeks custody Community order
(HIGH)–2 years
custody
Careless or inconsiderate driving arising from
momentary inattention with no aggravating
factors
Community order
(MEDIUM)
Community order
(LOW)–Community
order (HIGH)

I know that street well, it’s a lot steeper than it looks at the top, so easy to pick up a daft amount of speed. The little shitbag deserves every day of that sentence. Drags a kid along by his front wheel and knocks his teeth out, then cycles off to save his own skin.

knowingly riding an unroadworthy bike.

Not really. The only fact is that he was on his bike. The reason why he was on his bike is utterly irrelevant.

My comment is in relation to the link about the van driver its not a comment on the cyclist- who did not kill anyone and was not trying to park on the pavement.

In addition, only the day before this incident a Police Community Support Officer warned Manners not to ride his bicycle on the pedestrianised area of Peascod Street.

“It is a relief that Manners was given a custodial sentence and I hope this goes some way towards helping the family move on from this incident

27 weeks for bad Manners is a bit harsh. What’s next, a year for vulgarity ?

If that had been my little boy I would have been absolutely fuming

Indeed I reckon he was lucky to get away without 27 weeks in hospital!!

Certainly this guy should be punished but not sure that jail time is the answer.
He should be made to spend 27 weeks giving cycling proficiency lessons to primary school kids instead

Agree, hail should not be used because doing stuff that helps is too hard. Saying that, he may not be the best person to teach others how to cycle safely.

Saying that, he may not be the best person to teach others how to cycle safely.

Not now maybe, but after 27 solid weeks of repeating himself to school kids. You’d think something would sink in , either cycle safety or an appreciation of little kids, if he was made to do that, which was my point.

http://www..Grief_of_grandmother_s_family_as_coach_driver_found_guilty_of_causing_her_death/

The 28-year-old was sentenced to a 12-month Community Order and 60 hours of unpaid work, as well as a 12-month driving disqualification and was ordered to pay £625 in court costs and £85 Victim Surcharge.