Because the UK is so short staffed we have to import a workforce at a rate of about 300k per year.

Meanwhile senior politicians are telling us we need to create 1,000,000 jobs. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36972038)

ISTR in an economics lesson in the 90s being told 6pc was effectively ‘Full Employment’ in the UK which is consistent with what we currently see.

So we have full employment? Yeah?

A daytime stroll round the Main Street in our town would suggest not.

Possibly full under-employment, lots of people self employed but with not as much work as they would like.

The need to import skills is because we don’t have enough of the right skills in the UK, so you can have x% unemployment, but still be unable to satisfy employers. E.g. we need 300k seasonal farm workers to pick fruit as UK people won’t…

They’ve changed the definition of “employment” so many times that I wouldn’t trust that 5% now is anything like 5% used to be.

I’m not “unemployed” but neither am I working.

Depending what critirea you want to use, but years ago, it was said that once the unemployment rate is down into lower single figures you were looking at the ‘unemployable’ rather than the ‘unemployed’.

We’re pretty much at full employment now.

A lot of the 5-6% level is just the natural churn of people being in between jobs for a couple of months.

The rest is made up of either regional issues, where unemployment will always be high (Hull, Wales Valleys, etc….), or where individuals have long term issues around health, skills or attitude.

The real issue is around the skills gap.

If people have 2 months between jobs then 5% unemployment from this factor alone would suggest a job change every 3-4y, which seems surprisingly frequent to me (3 jobs in 20y and scientists are very mobile in their early careers). And to be honest I would expect most regularly-employed people to have much smaller gaps – I only had a week gap once when I chose to (fitted in with honeymoon) and have usually moved directly with nothing more than a day or two even when emigrating. 2 months either means people aren’t really looking until they (unexpectedly?) lose their current job, or they are finding it hard to find anything suitable.

Though I can see why employers like a decent pool of unemployed.

we need 300k seasonal farm workers to pick fruit as UK people won’t… want to be in employment for just 3 months of the year at minimum wage

FIFY
and, as above, a ‘zero hours’ contract makes you ’employed’, or at least, unable to claim unemployment benefit ( or whatever euphemism they’re using now ).

No. You might pick a level of around 1% unemployment as equivalent to full employment.

We do have a bizarre situation where a portion of the worksforce would rather be unemployed on a low level if benefits than working. I have witnessed this firsthand myself. Its is a fact that people are willing and eager to travel a 1000 mikes from home in Europe to take a job here a citizen is not willing to take

I have witnessed this firsthand myself.

Stop claiming benefits and get a job! I’m sure someone will employ you.

“…a portion of the worksforce would rather be unemployed on a low level of benefits than working.“

Or even, on benefits & topping it up with some cash-in-hand work.

An ex-colleague often talked about a friend of hers that was on incapacity benefit because of back pain, but did door work in the evenings. She was somehow quite proud of her friend “beating the system”.

its certainly the case that one of my mates has claimed sickness benefits for the last 20 years whilst taking on casual gardening, labouring work .. why would he change.. housing provided FOC ( except for bedroom tax) benefits income plus 50- 100 a day shovelling.. sounds good to me..

The 5 million + of working age people claiming sickness related benefits don’t count as unemployed do they?

‘Why would he change..’ ?

How about through common decency, not defrauding the rest of us who actually pay our taxes and don’t sponge on the state while also working for cash?
This claimant deserves a criminal prosecution over the false claims to benefits and the ‘mate’ deserves a slap for supporting and not condemning the actions.

This claimant deserves a criminal prosecution over the false claims to benefits and the ‘mate’ deserves a slap for supporting and not condemning the actions.

Bring back hanging or the gibbet….

its certainly the case that one of my mates has claimed sickness benefits for the last 20 years whilst taking on casual gardening, labouring work .. why would he change.. housing provided FOC ( except for bedroom tax) benefits income plus 50- 100 a day shovelling.. sounds good to me..

Is that why you haven’t reported him for (presumably) fraudulently claiming benefits? Would you be just as happy if he just stole the cash directly from you rather than indirectly through the tax and benefits system?

Every time someone turns a blind eye, somewhere a cute fluffy kitten dies….

How about through common decency, not defrauding the rest of us who actually pay our taxes and don’t sponge on the state while also working for cash?
This claimant deserves a criminal prosecution over the false claims to benefits

And while you’re at it maybe send Assad a strongly worded Tweet asking him to stop dropping barrel bombs on civilians or the UN will step in.

Do the right thing… NB I’ve just shopped jamba after his confession up there…

Unless you’re a billion dollar multi-national avoiding billions in tax, in which case carry on, we’re cool with that.

Its is a fact that people are willing and eager to travel a 1000 mikes from home in Europe to take a job here a citizen is not willing to take.

of course it is. no-one is disputing that. it’s also a fact that what they are paid is probably well over and above what they will earn at home, making the trip worthwhile, whereas those who live here can’t get by all year round on three months work on minimum wage.

it was said that once the unemployment rate is down into lower single figures you were looking at the ‘unemployable’ rather than the ‘unemployed’.

There the issue that a lot of jobs are temporary, zero hours or similar. Many employers try as hard as they can not to create ‘jobs’ even though they have to pay people day in day out. A sizeable proportion of the unemployment figure at any time is made up of people who continually are in an out of work because theres a lack of secure employment. But we’re encourange to think of ‘the unemployed’ as people who are continually out of work.

a portion of the worksforce would rather be unemployed on a low level of benefits than working

Ah the old ‘lifestyle choice’ the Tory’s rolled out – that benefits are so lucrative that people choose to be poor.

A lot of employers are working very hard to de-skill jobs – put systems in place that allow then to not invest in a workforce so that they don’t have to be reliant of people who are trained or experienced or time-served. That allows them to pick up and drop staff on a whim and even if their staffing needs are pretty constant they seem to want to keep their staff in a state of insecurity.

A lot of the Tory rhetoric of recent years – which has been very effective at stirring up hatred between the people who have nothing and the people who have very little – and the desire introduce punitive aspects of the benefits system, effectively using the social safety net as a fire that drives people into the zero-hours frying pan.

Its these employers that are scrounging off the state – using the benefits system to top up their profits while they scrimp on training, holiday pay, maternity and basic human kindness like sick pay and compassionate leave.

its certainly the case that one of my mates has claimed sickness benefits for the last 20 years whilst taking on casual gardening, labouring work .. why would he change.. housing provided FOC ( except for bedroom tax) benefits income plus 50- 100 a day shovelling.. sounds good to me..

That kind of benefit fraud isn’t always so much about taking the benefits its about hiding illegal incomes. In this instance its hiding cash in hand work from the tax man which he wouldn’t be able to do without the sickenss payment. But if you’re in any kind of criminal profession one of the problems is not having a declarable income. In the eyes of the the tax man you can’t seeming have no income so not having any tax activity flags up your criminal activity. So often fraudulent sickness claimants use a faked incapacity just to create a tax status with the HMRC, any benefits income is just a perk. But then they’re criminals so I doubt they lose any sleep over it.

.. sounds good to me..

No it doesn’t. If it ‘sounds good’ you’d be doing it too. I suspect you want more from your life.