I am of an age where I find this a bit of a mystery, can anyone explain it to me without launching off into one??

Link to joke Monkey Joke

It’s unfortunate I think as some seem to have taken the “monkey” element out of context (ie racist) as it’s a joke about motivation, feeding off others, letting others do the work which was the point that Hodgson was trying to make – thats my take any way and I don’t even like football.

essentially – ‘your job is to shut up and feed the monkeys’

basically Hodgson used a joke as an illustration to get a point across, in todays politically correct socity it probably wasn’t the best joke to use, however incarnations of the same joke have been doing the rounds for years. Because townsend and smalling have african origin the ‘monkey’ part of the joke has been jumped on.

………To me its just a press bollox to pile some pressure on hodgson as he qualified us and didn’t give them any hater amunition by losing

It’s ridiculous and counter-productive because it makes those who campaign against racism in football (a legitimate concern) look like “PC gone mad” which dents their credibility.

If anything, those who are making an issue of this are being racist, as they are the ones making the connection between players of colour and monkeys.

Its because the football fans racist expression of choice is the monkey chant.

It’s ridiculous and counter-productive because it makes those who campaign against racism in football (a legitimate concern) look like “PC gone mad” which dents their credibility.

Agree in principle, however it’s not them who are behind this. It was apparently leaked by a player to the press, seems like a classic case of getting offended on someone else’s behalf unnecessarily to me.

Townsend has said himself that there was no offence meant or taken and that it’s basically a non-story. Doesn’t stop the glorious British press making a meal of it, though.

It’s ridiculous and counter-productive because it makes those who campaign against racism in football (a legitimate concern) look like “PC gone mad” which dents their credibility.

This is precisely what I was thinking when I read the BBC article this morning. Words are not offensive; their intent is. All the noise is from people who haven’t actually figured this out yet.

Aye its an unfortunate phrase given footie fans doing the monkey chant but it seems clear there was not racist intent and none was taken.
He apologised if any offence was taken – lets just move on.

Footie has moved a long way since John Barnes had bananas thrown at him and if we look at say Italy we are much better]. The absence of an openly gay footballer/homophobia is a more real issue than racism in football IMHO

Still some racist chanting regularly associated with England fans though

Still some racist chanting regularly associated with England fans though

Really? I can’t remember the last time I came across racist chanting at a UK domestic game? I would say it must have been 15 years ago at the very least. Not saying it doesn’t happen and all that, but the bad old days are quite long gone, nowadays, you’re more likely to have people telling you Shhhhhh because theres a Mum with a child near you in the crowd, rather than anything inappropriate being chanted.

My all time favourite football chant was Grimsby on a wet Saturday during a particularly boring game. They started chanting “We piss on your fish and you know we do”….. 😯 No doubt someone somewhere would find something to moan about about that, but it had me in tears at the time.

if we look at say Italy we are much better].

Look at the spanish! They wore full monkey costumes to direct their ire at Lewis Hamilton.

The absence of an openly gay footballer/homophobia is a more real issue than racism in football IMHO

Interesting piece from Joey Barton (of all people) on the Guardian website about this.

I can’t remember the last time I came across racist chanting at a UK domestic game?

I meant the national team and its fans

Poor choice of words but I have no doubt it wasn’t intended as a racist joke. I’ve seen worse typed here.

EDIT: edited after edlong’s post below.

DD, is there a “n’t” missing from your post?

buck53, I was thinking more about “Kick It Out” and Football Against Racism in Europe who have jumped on the bandwagon. They’re the ones I’m disappointed with, who I don’t think come out of this looking like anything other than, er, bandwagon jumping PC-gone-madders.

DD, is there a “n’t” missing from your post?

😳

Well spotted…EDITED!!!!!!

Edlong and buck +1

Non story, but attempt to make it one more likely to have unintended consequences.

the real story here is how the **** does and England football team the crème de la crème of English players needs such a **** stupid joke to convey the blindingly obvious?

The news at the moment is largely economic and thus is quite complicated and hard to write headlines for. In such a situation the tabloids invent a row over something inane.

a_a
They are exceptional football players however they are not intellectual titans – you have heard them interviewed I assume.

Personally I would have uses puppets and a rhyme to get the message across 😉

Junky: understood re your comment regarding National. I mean domestic as in within the UK as opposed to at away games in other countries but both at International and Club level though.

Anyway up: Glad it wasn’t just me. I’m normally 5 minutes late for the PC bandwagon, but apparently not alone this time.

Junky… I get that they may be very very stupid, but why do they need to be told how to play football?

If we can come up with a joke that will be easy to grasp and help Rooney understand that his job is to kick it into their net we very well be responsible for helping the country finally put 1966 to bed next year.

It’s as manufactured as the suggestion that “niggardly” is a racist term.

I have to say that if I were, say, managing a group of workers and there were a number of black people in that group, I’d probably think twice before telling a joke with monkeys in it to explain a concept (even if the joke in this case makes the monkeys out to be the intelligent ones). That probably qualifies me as a bit of hand-wringer – but I’d rather not risk folk thinking I was a racist even if there was no intent. By this reasoning do I say that his choice of joke was poor. But from what I know of Hodgson and read about him, he’s no Big Ron.

why do they need to be told how to play football?

They’re not being told how to play, they’re having tactics explained to them. I was a corner-forward when I played hurling because I was small, agile and very fast. Corner-backs were traditionally psycho, big and fairly slow. When we were struggling, at half-time, the coach would say, just hit it towards Darcy over the CB’s head. He’ll outrun the CB to the ball (if the CB didn’t just take me out before I took off). Tactics, Not being told how to play.

I’m surprised anyone in the England team was still awake to hear the end of the joke,Hodgson’s delivery is that soporific.

They’re not being told how to play, they’re having tactics explained to them

I just thought that the depth of tactical thought at this high level would go a bit beyond telling the defenders to kick it towards the attackers.

they are the ones making the connection between players of colour and monkeys

I got a warning on here because someone started a dog thread asking for pictures of their “black labs”

I posted a picture four black guys working in a lab

They equated black lab = black guy = ME RACIST 🙄

ME RACIST

he admits it, stone him!!!

I just thought that the depth of tactical thought at this high level would go a bit beyond telling the defenders to kick it towards the attackers.

Did you watch either of the two games? Townsend (not sure if they were his first caps or not…) was having a blinder in both games. I think the object of the talk was to tell Smalling that when he had an option, give it to Townsend as he was the one worrying the defences most.

They equated black lab = black guy = ME RACIST

Are you sure you didn’t get a warning for poor word association? 🙂

I agree with deadlydarcy. I’m as PC hand-wringing as they come, and I think in retrospect you might try to avoid using a simian simile in that soccer situation. But in the absence of any other info, it doesn’t sound like there was any uncool intent. Tbh, it’s all about context and subtext, and I think the people in the room are best placed to judge that.

The thing is with the tactical stuff is that the national team don’t play together all that often, so these aren’t the guys that are used to playing with each other every Saturday like they do with their clubs. Plus, opponents play differently, so the tactics that worked last week against one team might not work this week against a different team, or even what was the idea for the first half might not be how they want to do things in the second…

I am really not getting why you are failing to understand that a manager may make a difference to the team and how they play or why they would give instructions.
Kick it long, play it short, tackle hard, defend, see the game out, Work the channels etc will all lead to the players playing the game differently.

As for how insightful it was it is but one snippet from the speech so we have no idea if it was the central theme, a minor point etc.

Were any of these monkeys northern?

So if I go to the Zoo & ask a black person who works there, where the monkey enclosure is would I be a racist?! Cos that seems to me the connection the media are trying to make here..

How did this story get in the press? No one appears to have been offended so how did reporters even find out about it. Are the press allowed in the changing room at half time now?

Someone in the England camp leaked it. Only explanation.

Shall we speculate who?

Must have been John Terry.

I reckon it was Bobby Charlton