But where can we go deadly, it’s so scary out there

Costa Rica might be nice, but what if they all talk funny…

eddie1971 – Member

Best speech ever wrote

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

Two whole centuries?

God > Adam and Eve > Battle of Trafalgar?

Let’s head for Geneva and work it out from there. Vancouver could be fun. They haven’t heard of the Diet yet. We could make a fortune. Maybe even buy the pink Bentley and Ferrari back. Then build a house on the Lake Isle of Innisfree.

I’m going because I’m “nasty xenophobes and bigots flourish” thought this country had freedom of speech, silly me

Dear eddie, you have freedom of speech, fought for and won my many, including Indian and Irish infantry, Polish pilots etc. Some of them may even have been darkies who spoke little English. Off you go.

32F – like the plan

it’s just a patch of land that you happened to be born on.
😐

Indeed – you have freeedom of speech and so do I. As dave said fought for by all sorts of folk

There are these chaps for example

These chaps might have helped as well

your missing the point fellas, I mean if you live here then accept our culture and adapt. the colour doesn’t mean shit to me

I love Christmas, me.

eddie1971 – Member

your missing the point fellas, I mean if you live here then accept our culture and adapt. the colour doesn’t mean shit to me

I live here and your “culture” doesn’t mean shit to me. If England has one thing going for it, it is its mongrel character, its multiplicity of cultures.

eddie1971 – Member

your missing the point fellas, I mean if you live here then accept our culture and adapt. the colour doesn’t mean shit to me

Christmas – most of the “traditional” Christmas is taken from other cultures – a lot of it from Germany only a couple of generations ago.

Our royal Family? German.

ETc etc

Eddie, are you being intentionally provocative just for sake of debate?

No curry, No pizza, No fried rice. Potatoes are not a native plant.

And as for language Bungalow Indian word, veranda – Indian word, Pyjamas – Indian word

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYY8MAAep3Y&feature=related[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=-fQrY1r5OD4[/video]

sorry junkyard Britain then, are you not also a proud Scotsman didn’t mean to offend.

who could not be proud of the country that TJ calls home ?

India?

I’m going because I’m “nasty xenophobes and bigots flourish” thought this country had freedom of speech, silly me

Freedom of speech means you’re free to say nasty bigoted things, not that people also have to like you or pat you on the back after you do so.

Freedom to put your foot in your mouth, Eddie – and our freedom to point it out to you.

You’re hardly going to win the battle of ideas though, are you?

India?

No, she wanted to go.

100 8)

There is a obviously some point behind what eddie is saying. The world not just Britain is currently heading towards a mono-culture. This is obviously a long way off but Im sure if we keep heading in the same direction it will happen. I think Eddie you need to remember that generally the ‘English’ culture has done very well out of this English is probably the worlds second language English styles of Music and Dress rule the world. Even the Chinese Premier(probably the most different culture) attends meeting wearing an English style suit.

Increased communications efficiency and transport faster transports shrink the world and erode barriers and hence cultural differences between groups. On one hand this is obviously a great thing as I think one of the biggest causes of violence in the world is cultural differences. As the cultural differences world wide have shrunk violence has overall reduced per capita.

However this process can occur too quickly and there can be violent reactions against it ie islamic bomber/ander bervic.

And the other question is, which is what I believe Eddy is trying to ask, is do some cultural differences have value in them selves and are we going to do anything to perverse them.

Every high street in the country is now a carbon copy of each other MacDonalds, Smiths, Marks and Sparks and this has recently lead to a backlash with local products and services becoming fashionable.

One day we might have identic countries with approximately the same racial mix, approximately the same language being talking even with the same wildlife to an extent ie Bison being replaced by cows in North America, Sheep in New Zealand etc

This I would generally say is a good thing as I think it will reduce violence and war worldwide(as it has in this country Welsh/English dont generally fight except twice a year when Bristol City play Cardiff) but there might be a case that we should be doing more to protect countries indigenous cultures, a bit like we try to protect indigenous wildlife.

there might be a case that we should be doing more to protect countries indigenous cultures, a bit like we try to protect indigenous wildlife.

Judging by the locals, they already do that in some of the nearby villages.

So which elements of British culture are worth preserving?

The abilty to queue
Four o’clock tea
jelly and puddings
Stiff upper lip
Fighting spirit (when attacked)
Dressing for the occasion
Driving a soft top in the rain
Fair play and being a good loser
Loving animals
The sun never sets on the empire (a great trading nation)
Having pride in things British

Or:

Being a potty-mouthed binge drinker with a bad attitude and short fuse
“must have”
Snobbery
Being a fat slob
Proficiently lying
Throwing a fit of pique
Having a yappy, snappy pooch.
Proud of one’s ignorance – the Clarkson clones
Fear of foreigners

Edit: I visited England last year and the second list is based on my observations. The first list being based on sterotypes in Films.

scu98rkr

So no curries, pasta, potatoes then? No kebabs or burgers?

??? what ???

where did I say that ?

Are you reading a different text from that which I wrote.

I said cultural integration is generally a good thing as it reduces friction violence oppression racism etc in the world.

I like curries, pasta, potatoes.

Globalisation of business can be a great thing too, means I can go anywhere round the world and know that I can pop in a McDonalds and have a big Mac which I like. But some people feel this is a bad thing. Im not sure whether it is or it isnt.

The point is that eventually national identies will be globalised your’ll go to one country and wont be able to tell it from the next.

To an extent they already have America/Australia/Britain are reasonably similar, I bet there are plenty of Native Americans who dont view this a positive thing.

As you say the advantages are obvious and generally I’m for it but their might be a day we look back and wish we’d done more to protect the differences between countries. In the same way the Welsh and Scots wish they had been able to do more to protect their languages which they are spending alot of money on trying to re energise.

Whether there is anything that could be done or should be done is actually another matter. I would say that freedom of travel will soon and should soon be a human right and if people keep moving the differences will keep falling.

The differences between countries are much more subtle than you might thing. It’s a lot more than what films we watch or what language we speak.

The differences in outlook and ‘national psyche’ for want of a better word are huge and profound between say the USA and the UK despite having the same language and much of the same cultural consumption. It’s even noticeable between England and Wales ime.

The differences in outlook and ‘national psyche’ for want of a better word are huge and profound between say the USA and the UK.

Yeah but they are considerably closer than 1000 years ago !

And they are probably much more similar than say Athens and Sparta in Classical Greece. They are just over 100 miles apart but the cultural differences were massive. (ie spartans reckoned it was fine to chuck babies out if they looked weak, athenians did nt see much wrong with an older man looking after a young teenage boy in their own special way)

Since the the first countries/empires were created cultural differences between the world inhabitants have been disappearing.

This trend is likely to continue until there are no differences and every country is a carbon copy of the other. Im just saying some people dont think this is the way to go.

To be honest its probably envitiable in the same way its envitiable that there will be a Tesco/Asda/Costa in every town across the country. So those people are fighting a losing battle.

But I can understand their fears as their way of viewing the world is quite quickly now destroyed. Eddie is wrong in saying he fears for his children though as they will grow up with the world as it is and accept it for what it is as all kids do.

This trend is likely to continue until there are no differences and every country is a carbon copy of the other. Im just saying some people dont think this is the way to go.

To be honest its probably envitiable in the same way its envitiable that there will be a Tesco/Asda/Costa in every town across the country. So those people are fighting a losing battle.

I think your conclusion we will all end up the same culturally due to global capitalism is false….we will share more in common but we will still be different – look at the attempts to get the US of A to like football for example. It is unlikely we will not be able to tell when we leave one country and enter another – the differences may reduce though but not to the point they are un noticeable.

A mate lives in germany and do you know what he misses most about the UK – Curries -0 I have to send him stuff over – cultures changer that does not mean all cultures will become the same

an English style suit.

lolwut?

The tie is Croatian/French/Italian and the forerunner of the suit was adopted from France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1650%E2%80%931700_in_fashion

I think your conclusion we will all end up the same culturally due to global capitalism is false

It might well be false, obviously. But I still think most of you are looking at thing in a microcosm.

look at the attempts to get the US of A to like football for example

Instead they go to stadiums to watch a game also called football where you move the ball from one end of a pitch to the other. If you can get it past a certain point you score points. There is a certain amount of physical contact but players are expected to hurt each other.

In the big scheme its almost exactly the game. Its not like going to the Colosseum and watching some feela chop some others head off. Or playing polo with a goats head or thinking raiding the next village counts as a perfectly acceptable sport.

That is such a bad example

Also curries first you could only get them in India now you can get them in most of the world.

Think big

Cultures used to be different.

Life in Sparta

Read the section life in Sparta people used to have radically different values in different parts of the world now they are basically the same except that in some countries the death penatly is legal and in some not, also likewise abortion.

Personally I think the main argument here some people think too small and look at the individuals and have compassion for them and see that obviously everybody deserves a decent life. For instance obviously people should be able to move to the UK to lead a better life. But then dont look at the big picture and think that the world can go on as it is with individual different countries each with their own culture. But lots of individuals make a BIG difference.

Then others look at the big picture and just see the numbers and the coporations and dont realise that actually they are made of individuals who we need compassion for. They can spot trends that scare them and make them react. They dont realise that actually no culture is special because no individual is more important than other.

lolwut?
The tie is Croatian/French/Italian and the forerunner of the suit was adopted from France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1650%E2%80%931700_in_fashion

Obviously the culture of Italy/France was more important in the past than England so we adopted their customs when England/America became more important we spread this round the world.

This is just adding to my argument countries are becoming more similar.

Also no one now complains that having to wear a suit is unpatriotic.

Basically my argument is with the people jumping down Eddie throat suggesting we can continue to integrate as much as possible without destroying “Britain” or “England” or what ever. We can’t.

They should just admit to Eddie look sorry but soon I dont know when but “England” will be destroyed in the same way “Mercia” or “Wessex” was. We will continue to integrate with the rest of the world because this is what human rights demand People need freedom of speach/choice/travel etc.. and this will lead to further integration and reduction of culture differences in turn this will help reduce wars famine etc

They should also say encourage Eddie to help preserve English customs in the same way as the Welsh parliament is trying to preserve the Welsh Language. Because one day we might regret when they are all gone.

This trend is likely to continue until there are no differences and every country is a carbon copy of the other.

I also don’t agree. Things will look superficially similar but countries don’t throw out their own cultures for someone else’s. They take aspects of other cultures that they like and incorporate them into their own with their own results.

Your football analogy is ironic. Humans have enjoyed team ball sports (and indeed other sports like combat, feats of speed/strength) for millenia in almost exactly the same way. So we are not all adopting football, we are all expressing the traits that really do unite us.

I don’t think England (or even the UK) will be ‘destroyed’ for integrating with other cultures. It will develop, be more interesting and be stronger.

Were things really better 80 years ago? Is cultural homogeneity in one country something to be sought after? One of the things that keeps coming up when people are asked what they are proud of about Britain is multi-culturalism. That wouldn’t have been possible a lifetime ago and yet now we’re really proud of it.

Come to think of it – the different cultures are just mixing together – so within the UK there are many different cultures. The cultures are still there they’ve just spread about across different countries.

Don’t get too hung up about the fact that every high street has a Starbucks. 100 years ago they all had a greengrocers and a hardware shop. I don’t think each one of those shops was radically different and individual. One greengrocer’s is the same as another.

Were things really better 80 years ago? Is cultural homogeneity in one country something to be sought after

My opinion definitely not ! England is a much better place today.

I don’t think England (or even the UK) will be ‘destroyed’ for integrating with other cultures

It depends what you mean destroy I think my example of Mercia and Wessex is a good example geographically they are still there but no one could truly describe themselves as a Mercian. The culture of Merica and Wessex is now so similar the inhabitants are either English or British.

The same will be true of England in the future the Island of Britain will be here, but England means Land of the Angles if they is nothing to distinguish them from any other country, ie similar racial mix, similar language culture aims etc will England really exist ?

People will be Europeans from Britain and then Earthlings from Europe. In the same way as I am a British person from the Midlands not a Mercian.

Im not saying this is a bad thing it will be a good thing in general once the initial teething problems have been overcome. But future generations may look back and miss the days when there were real differences.

Also I think both sides of the argument are guilty of ignorance. Some people obviously think human rights are of paramount importance and think you can promote individuals and subconsciousness ignore that fact that this will destroy historic communities.

While others think you can promote the rights of communities (ie the English) without damaging the rights of individuals (ie banning imigration, giving indegious communities etc rights ie council housing).

I just think people should admit that others are right to be scared that “England” probably wont exist in 100-150 years. But I would hope that something better, more tolerant, more equal will have replaced it.

In 1914, before the first world war, there were 59 independent countries in the world. Today, it’s almost 200. To me, that suggest less homogenisation.

Or surely it suggests that people are now more able/willing to self-determine than before…

In 1914, before the first world war, there were 59 independent countries in the world. Today, it’s almost 200. To me, that suggest less homogenisation.

As clubber says thats more to do with self determination and the destruction of the British/German/Russian/Japanese/etc empires.

And there are now plenty of countries with almost exactly the same culture, so an extra country does nt mean a new culture.

Ie Serbia/Montenegro
Ie Kosovo/Albania

Do you really think the world is less homogenised than 100 years ago ? Or are you just trying to find a statistic that suggests it is ?

The two links below list many languages that have become extinct. Many have become extinct in the last 100 years. I very much doubt the same number have been created in the same time the only one I can think of is Esperanto. This suggests a reduction in cultural diversity over time.

Langauage Extinction
List of Langauages to become extinct

Is it necessarily a bad thing that languages are dying out?

Perhaps we need to give up some cultural diversity in order to find more common ground?

I very much doubt the same number have been created in the same time the only one I can think of is Esperanto.

Perhaps if you broaden the definition of language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_constructed_languages

I bet it doesn’t, everything else we offer will though.

And how proud we must be “Mongrel Character” and “multiplicity of cultures”, but we can’t fly the St George flag in case it offends what a load of shite you talk

I think my example of Mercia and Wessex is a good example

Sorry to be a compulsive naysayer in such a well mannered and reasoned argument, but I again don’t agree 🙂 Mercia and Wessex were Saxon kingdoms, the race was Saxon and afaik they were of the same culture, so there would not have been that much difference anyway. Mercia and Wales were quite different, and I reckon even 1500 years later there are still differences despite having been officially the same country for over half that time.

What about going back another 400 years though, to Roman times? Things were pretty homogenous then. It’s worth a read about society then – I don’t think it’s too dissimilar to what we have now. Loads of cultural, social and political integration on some levels but dig a little deeper and the differences were still very much there and they re-appeared after the Empire collapsed.

The Holy Roman empire had a similar effect I reckon, they were pretty homogenised back then.

Also no one now complains that having to wear a suit is unpatriotic.

I think they do in India or China from time to time. Traditional dress vs Western.

And anyway – we are continually coming up with new customs. How far d’you think Father Christmas goes back?

You still have freedom of speech

Excellent! Here we go then,…….
On second thoughts I’d better not, might get me ar$e kicked off the do gooders. 🙄