From Windwaves Zocchi page

I find it hard to believe 😕

"It's no secret 2008 was a bad year for Marzocchi. Since then Tenneco, an automotive suspension giant, have taken over and their quality control expertise has been put into practise throughout Marzocchi with every fork being inspected thoroughly before leaving the factory. In 2009 the total number of warranty issues in the UK was only 16. Since then quality has been further increased and for 2010 the figure stands at 2 cases, including both aftermarket and original equipment shocks."

http://www.windwave.co.uk/brandpages/marzocchi_brand_page_public.html

Presumably you have good evidence to back your implication that they're lying?

Oh… er, no, you don't.

And this is your first ever post. 🙄

Do you work for Fox or SRAM perchance? 🙄

I find it hard to believe

"It's no secret 2008 was a bad year for Marzocchi. Since then Tenneco, an automotive suspension giant, have taken over and their quality control expertise has been put into practise throughout Marzocchi with every fork being inspected thoroughly before leaving the factory.[/u] In 2009 the total number of warranty issues in the UK was only 16. Since then quality has been further increased and for 2010 the figure stands at 2 cases, including both aftermarket and original equipment shocks."

Why?
I imagine they're talking about genuine warranty claims and not numpties sending them back because they cut too much off the steerer. 🙄

Whats the fact its my first post got to do with anything?

The fact that its not and i have just re registered under a new name if thats ok with you of course..

I was just reading their site and it seemed amazing that they have had so few..but i now realise i should have done a world wide study first..even though its just a question 🙄

with every fork being inspected thoroughly before leaving the factory

Mind, that only stops them being incorrectly built, not problems with poor design or materials…

Do you work for Fox or SRAM perchance?

What?

It stinks of espionage in here.

dammit, i only just fixed my 'internet lies' detector, i read this, and BANG! it's gone again…

i was unlucky enough to get some '09 55's with a bike i bought; they were total cack in terms of finish and design – and only sort-of worked for 1 ride.

good riddance.

Mind, that only stops them being incorrectly built, not problems with poor design or materials…

I expect modern QC methods to cover the material quality and a bad design which is well built isn't a warranty problem, is it?

More likely the other way round. Zocchi or Windwave PR plant. Will have a counter on the link that directs to brand-central.

Don Simon – Yes it is – if a part of the fork isn't up to the job (and this includes material quality) and fails 6 months in then it's a design failure and a warranty replacement…

Whats the fact its my first post got to do with anything?

Appearing out of nowhere to slag off a manufacturer? Some people might think you have an axe to grind…

just re registered under a new name

So, what was your old one?

Can't see why not, they dropped pretty much every bit of tech that was causing the problems and went back to what they do best. The 3 year no services required warrenty implies they were fairly confident that they'd got things sorted, because once a products gone back in for warenty repair thats pretty much the profit margin gone.

Maybe when Marzocchi forks/shocks do break the owners are so scared they will get sent another one they just bin them and buy some proper fox or rockshox forks/shocks..

Wonder if singletrack HQ would care to check the OP's IP

2 cases in 2010.
I'm surprised that they sold 2 forks TBH. 😆

fox

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Modern QC methodology should find poor materials before the producton stage and therefore shouldn't be part of the equation. Zero tolerance, only been around a few years.

The 3 year no services required warrenty implies they were fairly confident that they'd got things sorted

Not necessarily. You're assuming that most of their forks are heavily used – I'll bet that a large amount aren't and therefore don't fail. If you've had quality problems in the past, giving out a decent warranty is a pretty standard marketing way to convince people that things have improved and tends to work even if they haven't improved as much as claimed simply because many people will never cause a warranty failure or will simply never claim (often because they don't realise the product has failed…)

I appreciate marzocchi needed to make the effort but its too little too late for me. I had some 2007 xc700 and they were flexy, unreliable, hard to set up and a nightmare. Stuck with fox ever since

Appearing out of nowhere to slag off a manufacturer? Some people might think you have an axe to grind…

show me where im slagging them off..

More likely the other way round. Zocchi or Windwave PR plant. Will have a counter on the link that directs to brand-central.

Not at all just looking for new forks,and i read this on their site.

But i suppose you lot love a drama, jesus you must be bored.

Simple question as they have indeed had some reliability problems of late.

Modern QC methodology should find poor materials before the producton stage

Yes, they should in theory. However, in the real world, they often don't – often because the testing doesn't actually full reflect the real life use of the product or because the material supplied isn't actually consistently up to the standard of that tested.

Regardless of a bad year you'd still get a ripple-effect in the following year(s).

Unless of course the forks only came with a 12month warranty in 07/08.

So why don't Fox/DT/RockShox/WhyteBrothers offer the same?

I agree there's an element of reputation rebuilding, but if the forks were half as bad as they were when production went East a 3 year warenty would bankrupt them.

And Marzocchi tend to be at the brulier end of the market, I'd be supprised if they dont have a harder life than most?

Wonder if singletrack HQ would care to check the OP's IP

am i missing something here….. 😯

Yes please check…

Jesus christ 😕

Do you work for Fox or SRAM perchance

I had multiple warranty failures on Sram forks.

So why don't Fox/DT/RockShox/WhyteBrothers offer the same?

Because it does cost (because you will always get some failures in the real world on something reasonably complex like a suspension fork) more so you don't offer it if you don't need to.

Same as Toyota are now offering a 5 year warranty after the well publicised problems…

I had multiple warranty failures on Sram forks.

Aye me too hence i need new forks as i have had my Reba CSU replaced 3 times by TFT because of creaking.

Nissan never had too many problems, I don't think. Also a major part of QC is a cost reduction exercise in removing wastage. As you move the QC checks up the supply chain you're removing the likelyhood of failure. Bring your suppliers closer and get them to pay for their own QC, position yourself as their main customer giving yourself more power over them. Introduce strict QC levels. If the components are perfect, the end product should be perfect too. And you benefit from less wastage and a greater cost efficiency and more profit. 😆

Don Simon – I work in aerospace manufacturing – I understand the theory 🙂

In practice, even the best companies never achieve 100% quality. Those that do come close typically take a long time to get there (eg you can never fix it overnight) and it typically costs more in the short term though clearly pays back massively in the longer term.

It's statistics. Take out the failures caused by numpties, the grey area fails where someone might have done something not covered by warranty but they honoured it anyway, the failures caused by consumables (wear and tear on seals) and the failures that occurred because the owner didn't service within the service schedule and you're down to not many units. I'm still impressed with only 2 failures but out of how many units sold? Not many bikes come with OE Marzocchis and they must sell a fraction of the volume that Rock Shock or Fox shift.

I imagine the failure of my Specialized shock, even though it was clearly a warranty issue, didn't show up on their warranty stats as it occurred a month from the "one year or 150 hours, whichever is sooner". Spesh said I could send the shock for warranty work (2 weeks) by which time I'd be wanting to send it for service. So I ended up paying for an early service during which the bit that failed got replaced anyway. I bet this sort of stuff goes on a lot, too.

To summarise, don't believe stats when they appear as part of marketing bulls**t!

You might well also find that they don't include OE forks in the stats (though equally they might but unless you know for sure, you can't really use stats to make any informed decision on the product…)

And it's the initial cost which puts people off. It takes committment and planning to achieve zero tolerance and in reality you'll never achieve it as humans are involved. Although a while ago QC was my dissertation. 😉

Getting back to the OP, then yes it is unreasonable to believe that those figures can not be achieved. With a good QC system in place, I think 100% insepction rate, although expensive, will result in low levels of warranty claims.

Take out the failures caused by numpties

well, there's hora's experiences consigned to the "don't count" bucket 😉

Clubber, aye it says OE forks too…
Cheers for the sensible replies

Take out the failures caused by numpties, the grey area fails where someone might have done something not covered by warranty but they honoured it anyway, the failures caused by consumables (wear and tear on seals) and the failures that occurred because the owner didn't service within the service schedule and you're down to not many units.

This is key – just a number means nothing unless you know how many other failures they attributed to the above…

It doesn't seem inconceivable – as spoon said, warranty returns quickly start wiping out your profits, so it really pays to get things right.

Whats the fact its my first post got to do with anything?

Appearing out of nowhere to slag off a manufacturer? Some people might think you have an axe to grind…

Read the T&Cs dude — your first post should be a totally neutral summary of a non-relevant subject.

I had four warranty issues on one fork (66 RC3) with Marzocchi/Windwave in 2009. They were three instances of creaking crown/steerer and one set of sloppy bushings. I wonder what the other 12 were?