trouble is once you've shredded the cured brake surface how the hell do you cure them again mid ride if it's cold and wet?

By braking excessively?

Worst was approx 25miles around Afan and my Magura pads were gone. It was raining and lots of grit must have thrown into the pads to wear them down at a massive rate.

Normally i get a good 4-6months depending on where i ride and what the conditions are like.

trouble is once you've shredded the cured brake surface how the hell do you cure them again mid ride if it's cold and wet?

small discs and braking lots

A set a lap at Hit the North last year. I thought I was taking my preparation far too seriously fitting new pads before-hand. They were down to the metal front and back after one lap. The superstar stand there must have made a mint that day!

SSC sintered pads from new to only microns in a day. There's something in the peak's grit me thinks.

They might not have been bedding in properly but it was the constant grinding noise coming from both wheels that gave away the true reason.

Avid Elixir CR sintered pads lasted one 3 hour ride. The ride had one big descent and was tres muddy but I simply couldn't believe my eyes when I checked the pads after the ride, they were unuseable again. I have the same pads/brakes on my downhill rig and have had these pads last months in the worst Scottish downhill conditions. I also really didn't do too much braking on the ride as it was a fairly tame descent!

Must be faulty batch of pads as one ride is totally unacceptable.
Rubbish.

I also really didn't do too much braking on the ride as it was a fairly tame descent!

And there in lies the problem. On a ride like that the pads are constantly being ground away by the filth.

Interesting post . I was going to write something similar .Hope Mono M4s 1 pair organic 1 pair sintered bedded in genuine Hope .Quantocks Saturday Mendips Sunday and both pair have nearly had it .Exceptional circumstances to be fair and other peoples fared worse (different make )but no worse than conditions where Hope are based i wouldn't have thought .Phoned them this morning hoping they might bung me a couple of pair but they didn't fall for it !

One of my pads commited suicide on Sat in Sherwood pines 😯 This was after naff all time and they were bedded in. I will not be using discbrakes again!!!!!!

meant to say discobrakes 😆

Oldfart – you say they didn't fall for it – but thats my point, you obviously paid good money for the pads, they didn't last anywhere near as long as you would expect, therefore I could only conclude that they're not fit for purpose – piss poor value for money.

Had they said to you at point of purchase that "you might only get 2 rides out of these, mate", none of us would be best pleased.

The car and motorbike industry wouldn't get away with it cos they would get their ass sued off, so why should we have to put up with it???!!!

good point Johnny , I used to race MX and enduro and cant remember changing a set of pads mid season. I think we need someone from the manufactoring side of brake pads to tell us why they wear out so fast and if their life could be extended ? Oh and I wore out a rear set in half of saturdays ride(pre bedded in).

Less than a lap of the Hit The North course during 'summer' 2008. Bedded in etc to bare metal in less than 8 miles…

Has anyone who has had this premature wear tried returning them as "not fit for purpose"?

Mine were SS's before they gave you your money back for them being rubbish. That said, now running SS Kevlars and they're fantastic pads. Still got the ones in that did my last few days in Verbier…

Johnny and Knottie glad someone agrees with me !On my other thread about fit for purpose most people seem happy with current position .TJ interesting point ,though i guess the retailer will argue that it's up to you to prove it and it probably won't go nowhere .The guy from Hope cited the fact that others on the rides had even quicker failure than me and concluded that there's weren't so bad in comparison !

TJ may well have a point about small discs and alot of heat because I thinks the pads on the back of my 456 have never been changed in the 5 years I have had the brake.

BTW it is a 145mm disc and it smells hot quite often

tj hats off to you for the restraint you are showing in this post chap.
look it's simple it just happens sometimes.

monkey child.its a pointless exercise thinking disco pads are inferior.Tney are not.Its the same with superstar.Your pads wore so quick because of bedding in and then time of the year when sometimes conditions are such that pads barely last a 2hr ride if you are lucky especially in the surrey hills.

The organic pads my formula Oro's came with lasted about 40k on a Merida marathon earlier this year, which was unfortunate as I was doing the 50k. Metal on metal doesn't stop very well 🙁

Nonk – there must be a reason or a combination of factors tho. 🙂

I find this a fascinating puzzle.

I stll think this is the best explanation yet –

Scienceofficer – Member

The reading I've done off the back of TJ's theory suggests that curing of a pad, and, more importantly, the transfer of pad material to the disc is something that needs to be done throughout the life of the pads/brake system under normal use.

A few microns of pad material on the disc is easily ground off in foul conditions, and if the brake isn't brought to a high enough temperature to transfer additional pad material to the disc, braking performance is diminished and the braking action changes from adhesive friction (low wear rates) to mechanical friction (high wear rates).

You therefore simultaneously lose braking power and increase pad wear rates.

Managing this in practice would seem to mean running a braking system that has more heat in it, allowing more braking events through a ride to get the heat up. The trade off of course, will be an increased propensity to over-cook the brakes on the more extreme braking events.

SD the reason your pads last so long is you DON'T brake !Hence what happened on Weacombe Saturday ! 😀 BTW you ok now ?

Tandemeering around the quantocks this time last year for a wet weekend. No measurable pad wear at all. Very hot brakes as we braked a lot in terror from following sharki tho

how much did that lot cost me !

Has anyone compared wear between the brake manufacturers and alternative brands ( A2Z Clarks )?

tj that scienceofficer post is bang on the money in my view.nice one.

and i thought my pads didn't last long – some of the stats above are shocking

Knottie, that must be the guts of 4-500 quid in brake pads there – ouch!

Oldfart – I love the guy from Hope's response – priceless.

& Nonk – if all the posts above are anything to go by, it doesn't just happen sometimes, it happens a hell of a lot

There's a place near me where motorcycle enduros are held and the sand is well known for being like grinding paste. A set of pads lasts about 2 hours, bedded in or otherwise. Some riders run these rear discs. No holes so the crap that gets chucked onto the rear disc by the front wheel doesn't get carried round to the caliper in the holes. And the unvented rear disc builds heat better in cold weather.

My exhaustive survey (2 minutes on CRC) seems to show that solid rear discs aren't very available for mountain bikes. The Avid roundagons seem to be about as solid as they get.

I dont believe its all down to pad quality. If someone wants new pads fitted, to do it right.. there is no way 10 times out of 10 you could just "fit" a set of pads and everythings hunkydorey.1 out of 10 and yer lucky.
throwing in a set half way through a race and expecting them to last well without cleaning things down,lubing pistons,straightening rotors,facing disc mounts?,replacing rotors,bedding in the new pads (wether it be hammering them from new, or taking it easy from new – depending on pad type – know which way to bed them in before you start slagging the companys brakes!)

Today is the day you puffer 24hr racers should be buying yer pads, fitting them and bedding them in ready for the races.i would buy a few spare rotors as well myself.

then again, i probably wouldnt need to as i would be running avid bb7s or similar where you can adjust the pads for clearence but still have enough bite point and stopping power to cope.

..then againnnnn,im lazy and ill be the one taking pics of the racing.. not racing myself. :O)

heh, check that marta pad in Knotties pic. theres disc scuffing on the backing plate nowhere near the pad material! perfect example.

::runs::: ;O)

Today is the day you puffer 24hr racers should be buying yer pads, fitting them and bedding them in ready for the races.i would buy a few spare rotors as well myself.

Yup – got both my bikes running hope mono minis with sintered pads for interchangeability and long life. Both bikes with well bedded new pads, got one spare set of pads and getting a couple more. Will have them bedded in as well over the next week. Both bikes on 160 rotors as well

My short lived avid pads went quickly because there was a lot of water mud being thrown at them constantly they had no chance to dry or heat up to recover. Just a grinding paste splattering the caliper/rotor which sanded down the pads pretty quickly and unevenly.

Some VERY interesting reading about brake pads/rotors to be found at the following 2 links from the big S themselves…

http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50rparsys-0012-downloadFile.html/06)%20Brake%20Burn%20In.pdf
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50rparsys-0013-downloadFile.html/07)%20Brakes%20and%20Heat.pdf

They know what they're talking about those clever blokes at Shimano! Think about it though, car brakes get hot, motorbike brakes get hot, mountain bike brakes don't really get much chance to get properly hot unless it's bone dry and there's a long run to drag the brakes on!

FWIW, every set of brake pads I've ever been able to fully bed in has lasted ages regardless of whether sintered or organic, and every set I haven't has worn out pretty bloody quickly! Though wet/sandy conditions do increase that wear rate 10 fold. I've found the best way to bed brakes in (this might be a bit obvious, so sorry if it is) is to get to the top of a big hill, on road, and drag the brakes all the way down… Helps if you've got a willing mate in a car to take you back to the top again mind, otherwise it's a LOT of effort just to bed the brakes in…

One Clywds and one Peaks ride.

Has anyone compared wear between the brake manufacturers and alternative brands ( A2Z Clarks )?

Outside of a lab there'd be far too many variables to make it mean anything.

Bloody hell knottie you change your brake pads a bit soon dont you? must be 100's of miles left in that pile yet, it's time to change pads when they look like cxi's pic (well the left hand pad not the right) 🙂

My new ones lasted about 15 miles on Saturday. Muddy peaks grind.

Discopads.

Bedded in.

Hi OF I am a bit sore still and my helmet is a write off but hey ho

anyway brakes are for girls ( ducks for cover)

I have yet to replace any pads for the last 4 odd years hope mini's bless em, but I do not have any discs bigger than 165 mm so there may be some truth in what TJ is saying

I didn't make it out of the car park at the Marin trail last year before having no braking surface. But that was a dodgy SSC set which detatched from the backing the first time I touched the brakes. It wasn't a good day as a pad fell off when fitting the next set too. Before this turns into another SSC hate thread I should say that their sintered pads are brilliant.

While actually riding I can only get a few rides out of a set if I ride Afan in the wet.