Ok. I’m currently driving a “company car” lease vehicle. Because of changes to fleet policy I’m moving to a car allowance when the lease expires in a couple of months.

Unless someone has any better ideas, I’m looking at getting a Mondeo on PCP. There’s a 150PS Durotech CDTi diesel and a 160PS Ecoboost petrol option. I’m stuck for how to choose between them. I’ve no idea whether there’s a price differential.

If the brochure book is to be believed, the diesel has considerably better MPG (55 vs 36 ‘urban’). The diesel is lower emissions (115 vs 134) and the diesel is massively higher torque as you’d expect (350Nm vs 240). Diesel is cheaper, but I’m vaguely concerned about things going wrong and last I looked (quite some time ago) it was a more frequent service interval.

The CDTi is a known quantity though, AFAIK it’s the same lump I had in the Mondeo I drove prior to my current car, whereas I’ve not driven a petrol car in anger for over ten years (and I’m stunned at the power output; they do a 1.0 in the Focus which is like triple the power of the 1.1 I had in my 1977 vintage first car).

Any compelling reason to take one over the other? Thoughts?

Test drive them back to back.

I’d love to but that might be challenging, I think my local Ford has like one tester (potentially the 177PS hybrid 😯 ).

What sort of driving? I’d say this;

Regular long distance – Diesel.
Regular short distance, and/or stop/start – Petrol.

Where do you do most of your miles!?

Motorway or town!? Diesels are best on the Mway as I’m sure you’re aware. Less people around to breathe the nasties they emit too.

Diesels are significantly dirtier – you trade MPG for NO2
We just swapped Mrs J’s diesel for a petrol to reduce our NO2 contribution
Depends on the type of driving you’ll be doing.
There is also a suggestion that the tax on diesels may increase significantly.
I’ll be swapping my diesel for a petrol or hybrid when it’s due for changing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33254803

Lower emissions on the diesel.

I’d be hard pressed to say. When I do motorway miles it tends to be long distances; I might not touch a motorway for a month, then have to do a 500 mile round trip.

Lower emissions on the diesel.

Do you really believe that, Diesels especially as they age chuck all sorts of obnoxious stuff out of the back, it’s very much on the agenda to ban them from major cities the Paris mayor has a real thing about it. The diesel emissions benefit is a bluff / smoke (litteraly) and mirrors IMO

Anyway unless you are doing high milages the petrol all the way imo.

You are quite right to note service intervals, look at costs too. More expensive maint required on diesels. Higher purchase price ?

We have an obsession with diesel cars in Europe partly as on the continent the fuel is cheaper vs petrol. In Asia, US etc you hardly see them in private cars.

Going new I’d look hard at a petrol option.

Fwiw I test drove a 2012 Mondeo with the 1.6 ecoboost before I bought my current car. Lovely engine and could propel the estate lightly loaded pretty easily.

The 170ps diesel versions I drove were quicker for a lazy driving style (ie keeping the revs down but nipping along inside the limits).

I ended up with a Passat. There I found a late 150 ps 1.8t and similar experience vs the 170ps tdi I ended up buying.

Buying secondhand there was sod all choice of petrol ones of both cars (both ones I tried were manual but changed my mind and went for an auto) so I ended up with an oil burner.

Economically for me I think diesel works 20000 a year of mixed driving with plenty of long motorway runs but I’d have had petrol for choice.

It won’t matter two hoots if it’s on PCP. Pick whichever one gives you the best deal, because in 3 years time you’ll chop it in against a new one.

^^ I’ve had one diesel (2.7tdi auto) in the days we where doing 20k pa plus of mostly motorway driving.

Interested in this. Diesels for the last 10 years but thinking of going back. I do about 16k a year. Lots of motorway, but lots of stop start too. Particulates etc are a real thing. And it seems kind of hard to trust anyone’s environment data at the moment…

Diesels are not ‘best on the motorway’. Big engines and cars with auto boxes are.

In my view it comes down to your overall mileage a year, and if you do a lot of short journeys. Properly calculate the running cost over a year, taking into account servicing, fuel, and crucially for a new car, road tax.

I’ve just done the same, and for my 15k per year, despite it all being long motorway journeys, have opted for petrol having had run diesel for the last ten years. The difference in running cost over a year is around £500 for me, and I’m happy to pay that for the extra refinement of a big petrol engine. On the car I’ve ordered there is no difference in price between the petrol and diesel versions, and the dealer was happy to arrange back to back tests for me.

I also suspect that diesel cars are going to start getting hammered on road tax, and on fuel tax as well.

Diesels are much more dirty than petrols and kill lots of small children

If the brochure book is to be believed, the diesel has considerably better MPG

It will be. They over-estimate petrol more than diesel, if anything.

There are websites that give ‘real world’ mpg stats for cars, but they are of questionable benefit, since I seem to far exceed their averages.

I will be tempted to try turbo petrol next time, because of environmental factors, but I will need to demonstrate that *I* can get 50mpg or so on long trips.

I don’t see why diesels will have higher service costs though – provided you look after your DPF.

I don’t have enough data but seems that fuel consumption our diesel car less affected by bikes on a roof than petrol car. Again, I should check this properly before claiming anything.

Do you really believe that

In the absence of any other information beyond your ephemeral “all sorts of stuff,” I can only take it at face value.

There are websites that give ‘real world’ mpg stats for cars,

That’s a good idea, I’ll have a look.

but they are of questionable benefit, since I seem to far exceed their averages.

This doesn’t surprise me. (-:

Properly calculate the running cost over a year, taking into account servicing, fuel

… insurance. That’s going to be tricky but I’ll have a go.

crucially for a new car, road tax.

Seems that as long as I keep it under 120g/km, it’s £30pa. It jumps up quite alarmingly after that. 2.0 diesel is listed as 115, 1.5 petrol comes in at 134. So that’s 400 quid over 4 years.

Thanks all.

Last time we changed cars, 20k was the break point for fuel choice, this was when the wifes commute was a daily 100 mile round trip.
Massive mileage drop now means a not very economical, but cheap in every other way, petrol car. More economical petrols were available, but the current one is amusing.
We are buying used though, so our running costs may be different to pcp/lease/finance deals depending what is included.

I prefer the lazy slow revving torquey driving style of a diesel.

Do the test drive in the hybrid. Then buy the petrol.

If you were planning on buying it and keeping it forever I would say petrol, however on a PCP you won’t have enough time to run into the problems a modern diesel car can have and it’s under warranty anyway.

In which case just do the sums on which will cost you least in petrol and tax and get that one.

Any particular reason for PCP? I’d look at all the finance options. When I did so recently, PCH i.e. a personal lease was by far the most cost-effective way to get in to a new car.

Look carefully at the figures on PCP, if there are big contributions and v. low interest rates then great. Otherwise, they don’t tend be as good as they used to be – largely due to the way residuals are calculated.

As discussed, petrol v diesel is about intended use and don’t get hung up on the CO2 figure as the only measure of emissions.

Modern small capacity turbo petrol engines are really great. The 1.4 125ps in my Golf delivers a real 50 mpg at 70 mph and I have a combined economy of 37 mpg over the first 2000 miles. This is a mix of short journeys on rural B roads and dual carriageway/motorway use. Small fuel tank means limited range (400 miles) but it is quiet, smooth and generally pleasant (dull) to drive. It in no way feels underpowered on the motorway. Yes, it has much less power/torque than my old 320d but it is still sufficient. Also note, that the Golf is actually more economical in that mixed driving than the BMW was. Plus the BMW was hateful to drive in stop/start traffic (see point about intended driving for merits of petrol v diesel).

Buy the hybrid?

I prefer the lazy slow revving torquey driving style of a diesel.

Turbo petrols have that too.

Modern small capacity turbo petrol engines are really great. The 1.4 125ps in my Golf delivers a real 50 mpg at 70 mph and I have a combined economy of 37 mpg over the first 2000 miles.

Still worse than diesel though. My old Passat is bigger, heavier, more powerful, is auto and gets 60mpg at 70 and about 46 or more on B roads.

Lower emissions on the diesel.

But the emissions figure quoted is only CO2. It’s the other nasty stuff people are going on about these days.

Still worse than diesel though. My old Passat is bigger, heavier, more powerful, is auto and gets 60mpg at 70 and about 46 or more on B roads.

The ‘cost’ of diesel v petrol when buying new is about more than MPG. You must factor in the cost at purchase, VED, fuel cost, servicing and residuals. For everyone, there is a point where diesel does become more economical.

The point I was attempting to illustrate is that the gap between petrol and diesel has narrowed significantly and aside from the pure financial cost, there is an intrinsic value to each in terms of how they drive.

I simply prefer driving a petrol car but others prefer diesel. This, less quantifiable value, should also be considered.

The ‘cost’ of diesel v petrol when buying new is about more than MPG. You must factor in the cost at purchase, VED, fuel cost, servicing and residuals.

You don’t need to factor in residuals. Depends on how you price it up. If you intend to keep a car as long as you can it’s not an issue.

The point I was attempting to illustrate is that the gap between petrol and diesel has narrowed significantly

I agree with that. Both in economy and driveability.

Any particular reason for PCP? I’d look at all the finance options. When I did so recently, PCH i.e. a personal lease was by far the most cost-effective way to get in to a new car.

Because a) I don’t have a deposit and b) if I get a personal lease and then lose my job I’m stuffed (AIUI).

I went petrol on my latest car after twenty years of diesel cars for various reasons (nasty particulates, over complicated expensive to repair engines, etc etc,) but one of the nicest things is I don’t have to go near the horrible smelly shite when I fill up anymore..
Diesels are on the way out imo,

This might be interesting:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/volkswagen/passat-b7-2011

1.6 TDI is not far off 50% more economical than the 1.4 TSI, which I would say are comparable engines.

Do you have a fuel card or can you claim business mileage at HMRC advisory rates?

Business mileage for a fuel efficient petrol/hybrid is a nice little earner.

Because a) I don’t have a deposit and b) if I get a personal lease and then lose my job I’m stuffed (AIUI).

Understood. However, just be clear how you are exposed in a PCP if you haven’t made a large initial payment and you do need to end the contract early. In this scenario, you could have negative equity and have to pay to hand back the car.

With a lease, you can get contracts with small upfront payments. If you have a short lease and keep the spec sensible/jump on a good deal it can work out very cheap indeed over the term.

There is a balance of risk versus outlay. Also, depending on your allowance, there could be potential to keep the monthly below the annual allowance so you can put aside cash ‘just in case’.

Went back to a petrol estate after a couple of diesel estates. Don’t do enough mileage and most of it is local short trips and stop/start driving, so wanted to avoid the DPF problems

Auto box, petrol engine and big heavy car means low mpg, but that’s fine as on the whole we don’t do a lot of mileage

I was looking at cars 4-7 years old, generally at the premium estate end of the market. Trying to find a petrol was very difficult, loads of diesels around but not many petrols

Do you have a fuel card or can you claim business mileage at HMRC advisory rates?

I currently have a fuel card, and then then am billed retroactively for personal mileage. I think this will change when the car goes back though.

Business mileage for a fuel efficient petrol/hybrid is a nice little earner.

Thing is, I don’t do a vast amount of business miles these days (in fact, I’ve just checked and I’ve not done any at all for over 12 months). It’s a hangover from when I was in a different role, it’s really just a perk now.

It’s going to be interesting when the time comes to buy a new/newish car as I am okd school and see all fhese small (1.4-1.6) petrol turbos as whinny little undsr torqued motors. Did test drive the new Golf when it came out but very sceptical. It may be a search to find a 2l non turbo petrol in a small/medium car. Interesting Golf 1.4 comments above, they do match our test drive.

Roadtax – complicated and can change. When I bought my car in 2007 it had normal road tax, now its £500. Who is to say there won’t be a diesel backlash ?

Cougar I hear you on empirical / pub talk but you only have to stand behind a diesel once its a few years old when you start it up or see them driving around a city. When the VW scandal broke many testing companies refused tv companies requests to retest cars on camera as they are afraid of an industry backlash, huge huge vested interests at work. Companies like VAG and French have invested billions in diesel tech.

Understood. However, just be clear how you are exposed in a PCP if you haven’t made a large initial payment and you do need to end the contract early. In this scenario, you could have negative equity and have to pay to hand back the car.

With a lease, you can get contracts with small upfront payments. If you have a short lease and keep the spec sensible/jump on a good deal it can work out very cheap indeed over the term.

There is a balance of risk versus outlay. Also, depending on your allowance, there could be potential to keep the monthly below the annual allowance so you can put aside cash ‘just in case’.

That’s really useful, thanks.

I was looking at PCP because I believed it to be “safe” relative to a lease, though I’m not that fussed about a brand spanker. I went and spoke to a few garages at the weekend and put a few figures against it, and because their interest rates are different there’s precious little difference between their new and used prices. I suppose I should’ve asked this question first!

“Putting some money aside” is something I was hoping to do, but is looking increasingly difficult. It’s all quite stressful and annoying, I was told when the change was announced that I’d be better off, but either I’m doing something fundamentally wrong or that’s a flat-out lie.

Diesels are not ‘best on the motorway’. Big engines and cars with auto boxes are.

Why does an Auto box make any difference on the motorway? Unless there’s very heavy traffic I never change gear on the motorway.

I agree Simon, auto boxes make no difference on the motorway, round town they’re ace but on a motorway run no different from a manual IMO

In the absence of any other information beyond your ephemeral “all sorts of stuff,” I can only take it at face value.

It is well understood that diesel fumes are much worse for health. Has been for years now. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/27/diesel-engine-fumes-worse-petrol

You’d have to be a bit of a bellend to buy a diesel just to see a few more quid in your pocket IMO.

I agree Simon, auto boxes make no difference on the motorway, round town they’re ace but on a motorway run no different from a manual IMO

As said – traffic jams on the motorway are the worst place to have a manual.