Like most have said, once children arrive then you have less time for each other. Particularly when they are very young. It was tough for a few years but now ours are 16 and 11 and getting less reliant on us therefore we have more free time. Even managed to sneak a night away on our own the other week. 8)

Don’t often agree with loddrick but he speaks wise words in his first post.

Remember, children are not compulsory. They need a lot of love, attention and your time. If you don’t think you can give it, don’t have them. Enjoy them whilst they are around, they grow up very quickly.

“She wants a third one but doesn’t want to spook you? “

@ percypanther – aint gonna happen. I still wear the bibshorts in our house and have made my feeling on the matter abundantly clear!

I am pretty sure she is cool with it and has gone on the pill (I offered the snip but she said pill easier). The plans we have got for big family holidays and getting fast cars again are incompatible with having 3 children and she knows it.

I’ve yet to meet a single person who thinks having 3 is a good idea these days

ask me in a few years,

mine at 4, 3 and 1 😆

its a **** nightmare at the moment

i don’t even remember what me and the mrs did pre kids 😕 lots of nothing i guess, interspersed with a few holidays,

Have no money, house is a shit tip, mind is malfunctioning from tiredness, haven’t pedaled for pleasure for 8 months, playstation not been used for so long it needs about a billion system updates, willy used only for weeing. Think that’s about it.

Could be worse. 8)

I do look back pre-kids and think to myself ‘what the **** did I do with all that spare time?’

Its an unimaginable concept nowadays

similarly, I look back at my life pre-kids and wish I’d done more with my spare time

similarly, I look back at my life pre-kids and wish I’d done more with my spare time

a million percent, I’ve had 3/4 days a week off + 8 weeks a year annual leave for about the last 8 years, the mrs the same, what on earth did i do for 14 hours while she was out the house? i simply don’t have a clue 😆

My wife and I have more than the average number of kids, and we have a very good marriage. We did have five years of marriage before we had kids, though, during which time we learned a lot about each other and ourselves (including our strengths and weaknesses), so it may be that that helped.

In any case, the children present all sorts of challenges, but we have taken each of them in stride, and to this day continue to make time for each other in the form of going out together and/or watching a film together or whatever.

I think there is no secret formula, but keeping a marriage alive definitely takes effort on both spouses’ part.

Having a shed helps

redstripe – Member

Having a shed helps

Yeah as long as you dont make the mistake of letting her store some more baby crap in there for “just a few days”.

In retaliation i’m starting a bike workshop in the dining room now 8)

eta:

We have two kids, but have real problems getting babysitters, so don’t get out often enough.

At the start of the year, I was concerned about drifting apart, so arranged for us to go to a couple of gigs, just the two of us.

It was great. It was nice to have a little time just to chat without constant interruption.

Have struggled to get out since March, but am looking at planning another surprise gig in December.

“Marriage is a dinner that begins with dessert”

I’m on second puddings! Both kids have left home now. It was tough when they were young but we (Mrs Sandwich) appear to have produced two well adjusted individuals who still talk to us.

There was talk at one stage of a third but to be honest I was in my “being an arse” phase and the grown up decided this would be a bad idea. Thankfully I caught on to the shared parenting thing after they were both over the age of 10. If you search there are some old posts of mine 8 years ago which will frighten any parent of teenage girls. Getting through bad times ahem helped us both.

We did manage to make time for us when they were growing up. Once they can go off to visit their friends alone and you are the taxi service a whole world of fun is available. Hang in there OP.

My daughter is 13 soon and is a best friend to us

You have no idea!!! Brace yourself.

We married when the constant bonking where ever we could had the obvious results,that was 28 years ago,and 3 children later.
We have been thru the mill with life,a bushiness going bust ,house repossession,got fired from a good job(false accusations of fraud,later they coughed right royally),parents on my side lost the plot,Dad then passed away n mom tried living with us 2 years,but that didn’t work.

But we came thru it all,come close to separation at times,certainly fared better than wife’s two sisters ,who have both had two failed marriages kids by different farther’s,n neither settled still.

But we now are mortgage free, own our own house in a rural part of Ireland ,i work 3 days wk on average,ride when i want ,we walk together as my wife is not big cycling fan.
And the Sex life is great .

SO it CAN WORK>

It’s all down to working at it.

Hypothesis: the people who are knackered and celibate post-kids had them in their 30s; the happy shagmonsters had their kids in their 20s.

We had our twins in our 40s and the extrapolation pretty much covers it. They’re still only 2, but things have definitely got better in terms of simply being able to cope. I’ve got them on my own this weekend and while I’m dreading it I’m at least reasonably confident I can do it now that they can walk and have a basic grasp on understanding and producing speech.

In terms of the relationship… Hmm. It’s not perfect, especially since, being older, we get zero help from grandparents which means date nights etc. are non-existent. Other stresses such as where to live, single income, elderly / infirm relatives also take their toll. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that we’re on the same team and there to support each other.

I’m hoping things will get easier, especially once they start spending some time at nursery and Mrs gets a bit of time back for herself, which will in turn mean that I will be able to do things at the weekends rather than feeling morally obliged to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in the trenches.

Still don’t resent it though. It’s hard work, I’ve never known exhaustion anywhere approaching what I felt especially in those early days and through the patches when sleeping through the night becomes evasive, and I basically do nothing other than work, help with the kids, do household chores and watch 40 mins of telly of an evening. But I know it won’t last, and every day I’m greeted like a long-lost hero (even if Mrs saw through that long ago).

being older, we get zero help from grandparents which means date nights etc. are non-existent.

My parents were 44 and 53 when our eldest was born, and my in-laws were in their late 40s. Both pairs also only live a ten minute walk away, so we had babysitters aplenty.

Our two are away with one set of grandparents at the moment, and both slept over at friends’ houses on Monday night, so we’ve barely seen them this week 🙂

Been together 20 years, kids 12 and 8. Have juggled part time work (wife) and flexi time (me) to ensure we have barely needed childcare, but career opportunities have been sacrificed by both of us to ensure we earned just enough to get by.

Now under different pressures. My work life balance went all out of kilter this year so looking like I’ll go part time while she restarts her career. We have slightly different views on how this balance will look. Both also busy with kids activities (music, gymnastics, swimming, Brownies, Scouts) she’s a guide leader, I’m involved in scouts, always needing to be somewhere for something or one of us has one kid while the other does something with the other. And expensive time consuming cycling habits cause pressures as well. But we’ve found this year that without that “me” time I get too swamped with stuff.

Today is the first day of the summer holidays we have both been off together. A whole week together next week!

Sex happens occasionally when our hormones overcome our exhaustion, and she’s finished watching whatever shit is on the telly.

Serious question. I don’t have kids, but reading some of the comments here, how did people ever manage? Is it just that people talk about the challenges more, or are more frank about it? I’m one of three kids and don’t remember my folks – who both worked – ever being particularly tired or stressed. Maybe they hid it.

Or is it materially harder now? Pressure to buy the right things, childcare costs, spend time with kids instead of working etc.

Or is it materially harder now? Pressure to buy the right things, childcare costs, spend time with kids instead of working etc.

Could be this – more people with two cars, plus mobile phone contracts, multiple TVs plus pay-TV, broadband, etc?

Could also be related to having kids later, so getting used to two full incomes?

Or is it materially harder now? Pressure to buy the right things, childcare costs, spend time with kids instead of working etc.

Yes, I’d say it’s much harder now than it was for my parents.

Childhood in the 70’s / 80’s was fundamentally an expectation of constant boredom interspersed with whatever excitement and / or entertainment you could conjure up for yourself. Parents weren’t expected to do much more than provide for your basic survival with the occasional treat thrown in for good behaviour. Let’s describe this parenting model as ” Giving your child everything that they NEED”

Children today operate with a rock solid belief that they have a fundamental right to be constantly entertained and stimulated. Boredom is like a horrible affliction that happens to them and is borderline abusive. Society has imbued our children with such a sense of entitlement that they simply cannot see the real truth. That they live a life of unimaginable privilege. This parenting model is called “Trying to give your child everything that they WANT”

The problem is compounded by the fact that kids quite often don’t understand that a lot of the stuff that they need isn’t what they want and vice versa.

If you can give them all of the stuff that they need you’ll do OK. I’d say this include parents who try to love each other and do whatever’s required to make it work.

There’s more emphasis amongst the middle classes about being a “better” parent these days.

Grew up with two working parents. They didn’t spend a lot of time with us, but we had everything we needed, and a lot of what we wanted. I only now realise how much they sacrificed to give us all these things. They didn’t have to, but they wanted to. They figured it was better for us to have the opportunities than spend time with us. Frankly, I think they did the right thing, but it’s taken a long time to understand that.

I’d not swap my upbringing for anyone’s.

Childhood in the 70’s / 80’s was fundamentally an expectation of constant boredom interspersed with whatever excitement and / or entertainment you could conjure up for yourself. Parents weren’t expected to do much more than provide for your basic survival with the occasional treat thrown in for good behaviour. Let’s describe this parenting model as ” Giving your child everything that they NEED”

Children today operate with a rock solid belief that they have a fundamental right to be constantly entertained and stimulated. Boredom is like a horrible affliction that happens to them and is borderline abusive. Society has imbued our children with such a sense of entitlement that they simply cannot see the real truth. That they live a life of unimaginable privilege. This parenting model is called “Trying to give your child everything that they WANT”

The problem is compounded by the fact that kids quite often don’t understand that a lot of the stuff that they need isn’t what they want and vice versa.

If you can give them all of the stuff that they need you’ll do OK. I’d say this include parents who try to love each other and do whatever’s required to make it work.

This is BS to fit an agenda/world view that it’s all going to shit and wasn’t it so much better when life was simpler.

Maybe they hid it.

They hid it very well, as do all of the partents today. When our kids grow up they will wonder why it’s so hard now and long for the simpler days of their childhood.

The only difference now is we are easier able to share our experiences.

The only real material change that the middle classes are having their children later and live further from their own parents.

Children today operate with a rock solid belief that they have a fundamental right to be constantly entertained and stimulated. Boredom is like a horrible affliction that happens to them and is borderline abusive. Society has imbued our children with such a sense of entitlement that they simply cannot see the real truth. That they live a life of unimaginable privilege. This parenting model is called “Trying to give your child everything that they WANT”

With the greatest of respect, that is absolute utter and complete cobblers! I was only saying the other day that my kids have spent their summer holidays doing pretty much exactly what I did 30 odd years ago. The only notable difference is that when they do eventually emerge from the woods at the end of the day, caked in mud from climbing trees, building dens etc with their mates – apparently ‘the constant source of entertainment like that they feel fundamentally entitled too‘ – they’ve a few more TV channels to watch, or they jump around to Just Dance on the Wii, which I suppose is a step up from playing Jetpack Willy on a ZX Sprectrum

The only difference now is we are easier able to share our experiences.

The only real material change that the middle classes are having their children later and live further from their own parents.

I think I’d agree with these points.

don’t remember my folks – who both worked – ever being particularly tired or stressed. Maybe they hid it.

how much of your actual childhood do you remember though, unless your some sort of savant then what you remember will be mostly down to created memories via photographs and significant events, its not like you can remember what you had for tea in November 1993, comes back to what did we do in our spare time, i cannot remember what i did with half my life in the last 10 years, never mind what i was doing when i was 4/5/6/7 etc

for instance, i can remember walking into secondary school, i don’t remember any other part of the day, however i cannot remember starting any other school prior to that,

i dont remember any holiday prior to being 10, i went on them, and i can recall stories my parents told me about them, but not actually being there

not sure what my point is, memory is selective?

This is BS to fit an agenda/world view that it’s all going to shit and wasn’t it so much better when life was simpler.

Quite the opposite. In retrospect my childhood was pretty grim. My parents pretty much didn’t give a rat’s arse where I was or what I was doing most of the time. As long as I made it home alive, before dark and unaccompanied by the constabulary then, as far as the were concerned, everything was cool. They didn’t particularly care if I did well at school or not. You were either naturally “brainy”, like I was, and did well. Or not. Like my older brother.
I didn’t sit my arse on an aeroplane until I was old enough to pay for my own ticket.

Meanwhile my parents were smoking 60 fags a day each and worrying about their own problems.

They weren’t abusive or even neglectful. They were just normal, working class, council scheme Scottish parents.

So I call BS on you. It’s not all going to shit. My kids have a “life of unimaginable privelege”…. because I have worked extremely hard to make it so.
Life was NOT simpler. It was just less exciting.

With the greatest of respect, that is absolute utter and complete cobblers! I was only saying the other day that my kids have spent their summer holidays doing pretty much exactly what I did 30 odd years ago. The only notable difference is that when they do eventually emerge from the woods at the end of the day, caked in mud from climbing trees, building dens etc with their mates – apparently ‘the constant source of entertainment like that they feel fundamentally entitled too’ – they’ve a few more TV channels to watch, or they jump around to Just Dance on the Wii, which I suppose is a step up from playing Jetpack Willy on a ZX Sprectrum

I wasn’t talking about your kids specifically but rather modern kids in general.
If your kids are not influenced by society / TV / internet / their mates at school who are constantly pressuring them to have Instagram and Facebook and the latest trainers and designer clothes then you are fortunate indeed.
For every kid amusing themselves by building a den in the woods there are hundreds more whose first question when they go anywhere is “Is there WiFi?”
I truly wish it were otherwise but this is the constant battle that I and countless other parents face.
As I said… give them what they NEED rather than what they WANT.
Doesn’t stop them wanting it though.

I think you’ve got a very cynical, and inaccurate, take on the world fella.

I wasn’t talking about your kids specifically but rather modern kids in general.
If your kids are not influenced by society / TV / internet / their mates at school who are constantly pressuring them to have Instagram and Facebook and the latest trainers and designer clothes then you are fortunate indeed.

My 11 year old has my old iphone 4* with all that on. She goes out playing with her mates in the morning, leaving it sat in the living room, and it never crosses her mind for the rest of the day. She hasn’t the remotest interest in designer clothes, as she generally just wants to play football and is usually covered in mud

I’d say she’s just a normal 11 year old girl, no different from any other, no matter what the latest tabloid Mail-esque ‘We’re All Going to Hell in a Handbasket’ nonsense has to say on the subject

* Not a 6 I’m afraid. The shame 😳

The first one seems difficult at the time, but in hindsight, once you find your feet and gain a bit of confidence in your own developing parenting skills it’s actually pretty easy. You’re throwing the resources of two adults at the needs of one child.

The second one is a much easier prospect. You know what you’re doing from the outset and the stresses are from trying to split your attention between two children which , if there are two adults, usually works out OK. When the kids are a bit older, they generally either play together or play apart.

When number three rolls along, the whole group dynamic changes. The jump in stress levels between 2 and 3 is massive. The kids rarely play all together or all apart. Instead, they usually form constantly shifting loose alliances of 2 kids to the exclusion of the third which triggers bouts of tribal warfare. Constantly.

The whole world is also against you if you’ve got more than two kids…..

Want to buy a car that’ll take three child seats? “Oooh! that’s a specialist item sir?”

Want to book a hotel room? ” Sorry sir, only two adults and two children to a family room.

Everything in supermarkets comes in packs of four or six. “Daddy gets two! Why is your tummy so big Daddy?”

Family tickets to theme parks / cinema / anywhere bloody else? ” Sorry sir you’ll need to buy an extra ticket for the third child.”

Babysitters? ” What? All three of them?”

When I was a kid, most of my friends came from families with at least 3 kids. The only child in your class at school was the exception. Now, if you’ve got 3 kids at the same school you’re viewed like the Clampetts.

I’ve been with my wife since we were 16. We’re now 43. It’s hard work but it’s worth it. The OP describes his relationship as ” Functional”. That’s a good result. It’s a much improved state of affairs over “Dysfunctional”

There is light at the end of the tunnel when they get old enough to wash, dress feed and entertain themselves. However, the teenage tunnel is fast approaching…..

pretty much sums it up for me…my 3 are 7, 3 and 1. been with the missus for 9 years.
it must get easier and we both wouldnt have it any other way…its hard work at times but its worth it!!
neither of us complain about struggling with 3 kids…we both come from big families..me – 4 other brothers and 2 sisters…her – 4 other sisters and 2 brothers

I think you’ve got a very cynical, and inaccurate, take on the world fella.

Cynical? Oh yes. Very much so.
Inaccurate? Maybe not so much.
Fella? At least for now. 😳

Grew up with two working parents. They didn’t spend a lot of time with us, but we had everything we needed, and a lot of what we wanted. I only now realise how much they sacrificed to give us all these things. They didn’t have to, but they wanted to

This – you don’t understand it till you do it yourself. Yes, there were some things I didn’t get to do that would have been nice perhaps, and we only ever had two family holidays that I recall, but I got to do a load of Scout camps and school trips.

£300 a pop for school trip to France and Scout jamboree this year, concert tour to Belgium and younger ones school resi trip next year, but I remember how much I got out of those experiences and it’s better than a week in the sun.

Over.

Quite the opposite. In retrospect my childhood was pretty grim. My parents pretty much didn’t give a rat’s arse where I was or what I was doing most of the time. As long as I made it home alive, before dark and unaccompanied by the constabulary then, as far as the were concerned, everything was cool.

There are still kids out there today in the same situation. They may not be your kids but they still exist. In fact it’s fairly normal.

Just as there are parents who take an active role in their kids lives, same now as then. It doesn’t mean these kids are spoiled and get everything they WANT.

The fields in which kids play in may be different, they may be indoors and have WiFi, but the basic premise of being a child/parent is still the same.

edit: .

I’ve got 3 under 6. What is hard is learning to control your own mood, lowering your expectation of your own personal gratification and get used to dedicating 99% of your energy and thought to the other people in your life, particularly if you spent your 20s riding up and down mountains.
I find not trying to achieve too much other than family stuff is a key too.
Good luck, time passes quick!

Got 4 kids (13/10/8/7) decided to stop at 2 but a third came along :oops:and then the 4th is my niece who I am legal guardian to as she was removed from her mum (drugs & alcohol). Relationship with wife is great tbh but relationship with ‘life’ can be strained at times. There can be an underlying grumpiness about me unless I am on a bike or running as my kids take no prisoners. In all honesty I have found the hardest thing is striking a balance between time for yourself, time for you & wife then the kids on their own then as a family and endlessly trying to do the right thing so I usually give up and make it up as I go along 🙂

OP here – just back from camping weekend away. wow, this escalated!

Interesting to hear other experiences – good and bad. I’ve long held the opinion that in our raving 20’s when we can lose a nights sleep without missing a beat is when biology wants us to have kids, so maybe the 20s/30s/40s argument holds true.

Yes we have strong routine with the kids – everything with them is sorted. They’re 3 fantastic little chaps and wouldn’t change them for the world. We’re lucky that we have very complementary parenting styles and very similar underlying values relating to boundaries, routines and fresh air! We’ve never argued about the kids.

Date night is a struggle as finding a babysitter who’ll take 3 is a big ask we are newly relocated too so don’t really have the depth of knowledge on the local teenaged girls to entrust any of them! I wasn’t really referring to sex life in my original post, although that is a strong symptom of what is missing. For something that used to just happen, and that we sometimes struggled to contain, it seems like a lot of effort now! Obviously biology wires us up differently for a reason, but whilst I’d never be too tired for the act, I’m not prepared to feel like I’m begging and / or cajoling for it and just being another demanding boy in the house who wants something from her at the end of long day. There was a time when “getting in the mood” was mutual and part of the fun, but when it’s one sided it feels a bit demeaning. Mrs seems to be completely ambivalent about it apart from 2 days a month, but that winds me up as well!

It’s started to occur to me that this is damaging our relationship and I’m spending part of every weekend feeling frustrated, dismissed and resentful. This doesn’t make me as fun to be around as I would like to be. Getting out on the bike takes the edge off it and all the family notice the improvement. I used to laugh at the empty nester couples who sit in restaurants with nothing to say to each other, but now I’m worried that this will be us in a few years. We probably will still have our interests in common, but 20 years of feeling like this isn’t going to help, is it?!

For her part, she would rather I wasn’t as easily annoyed, more spontaneous and romantic, and didn’t leave her to plan everything. (Although 99% of the time she is a self-confessed control freak). but when I’m at my worst, my attitude really towards her really hardens and I kind of think that I’ve already handed over all the vast majority of my money and time, what else does she want!

Had to LOL about the Ashley Maddison comments. I’ve got enough on my plate! Although in all seriousness, I don’t want anyone else and would never go looking for it. On the other hand, I’ve kind of gained more of an understanding of the breathtakingly stupid mid-life crisis-type disasters that sone blokes get themselves into. There are times when a bit of an ego-boost and light relief would seem like a good idea, but I know I’ve got too much to loose and have hopefully more respect for myself and women to go down that road.

Anyway, that’s me vented. Thanks for listening!

Op … chin up

There’s not be one on here that can say their marriage/family life has been a bed of roses the whole time… even if they are saying it is at the moment.

For me .. things are great at them moment, but that wouldnt have been the case 6 months ago or at various other times over the past half dozen years.

One of the reason why it’s good at the momenmt for me and the Mrs, is that we have realised that our patience is used up with others … kids, family, friends, work… so when it comes to ourselves, we snap and dont have time for each other.. so we have tried double hard to put that right.

Seems to be working… But I’ll be sure to check on my own posts in a few months time… to give myself a pep talk when thing may or may not get tough again … 🙂

Sex life suffered

But then along came the internet…

Like a mutual hostage situation.

Ah, kids I love them but they’re a lot of hard work for different reasons, I’ve got a 9 year old lad who loves indoor climbing, MTBing at BPW, Gymnastics and playing with his mates in the street, but the lure of Minecraft is strong and I feel it leaching into his attitudes to real life, the instant gratification of those bloody blocks has meant he’s stopped chatting on the way Bluescar and started moaning about how long it takes and ‘stupid rocks’. We had a daughter last Summer and he adores her, but he’s found not being the only child very jarring, it’s coincided with a few new cousins too so he’s gone being spoiled by his entire extended family to being one of many, it’s effected his school life too, he was the leader of the pack in his class but as his friends have got older and more independent they no longer blindly do as he says so there’s been lots of friendships made and lost – thankfully time and guidence have fixed it and he’s learned to play better with others.

I notice the usual ‘kids of today’ argument has popped it’s ugly head up again, it’s not a theory I share, but one thing that kids have today that wasn’t around when I was a lad – YouTube, 2 Christmases back we got him a Samsung tablet, he’s always loved it, at first it was pretty useful, load films for long car journeys, Minecraft PE all good fun in moderation- but YouTube has been a nightmare – those **** vloggers are arseholes, mostly Minecraft stuff but they beach off into other stuff, they’re very cocky / sassy and thier attitude stinks, funny on YouTube, a **** nightmare when your 8 year old emulates it – anyway, the tablet has been ‘lost’ forever.

Our daughter is challenging in other ways, she’s 14 months and I love spending time with her, but it’s hard work, when she was a newborn she had allergies and didn’t sleep for for more than 3 hours on the bounce for 5 months, she spent the rest of the time unhappy and fussy – I was 37 a few days after I was born, before then I never felt ‘old’ I pretty much felt the same as when I was 25, but by the time we sorted the allergies and she slept I was a physical and mental wreck, I didn’t help that my wife’s maternity pay ended and we were broke. The only thing that got us through was telling ourselves that it would be better ‘next week’ and I used to sleep at work sometimes. Things are easier now of course, she’s just this month started to play independently so you can watch her play with her toys rather than having to keep her entertained 24/7 – she also sleeps like clock-work 7pm to 7am, utter utter bliss.

Our marriage is as good as ever, we have a few hours alone with each other everynight and we’ve just recently started to have some more time to ourselves, we don’t get much chance of sitters, but my wife has the odd night out with friends and I even had a night away earlier this week – weekend up in Anthur Stiniog, I woke up on day 2 so homesick I pouted all day and just wanted to get home to my family ha ha.

counselling – do this before any lasting damage is done

you owe it to yourselves