Maybe on their own, but there is a theory that as part of crowd they often show more wisdom than experts.

But in this case, it was as uniformed and idiotic as shareholders in a technology company voting to develop a perpetual motion device in direct violation of the second and third laws of thermodynamics.

FPTP
The House of Lords
PM and MP’s accountability
Party funding
Further transparency of the Civil Service, HMRC and Judiciary with regard to undue influence and what are deemed to be state secrets.

I think that it takes a special kind of lunatic to demand more direct representation, after the brexit referendum and all of its fallout.

It does not mean that everyone has a say.

It does if they are 18 or over and can be bothered to register to vote and saunter down to their local polling station.

Soulwood. Know your enemy. And rage against the machine

I think that it takes a special kind of lunatic to demand more direct representation, after the brexit referendum and all of its fallout.

@ Tom_W1987 – Why’s that then?

I’m touring the play “democracy” later this year in Scotland.

http://www.rapturetheatre.co.uk. You should all come.

Tom_W1987 – Why’s that then?

Because we live in a post-reason, group-think age?

Because I’d rather live under a permanent benign dictatorship of old etonians, than see some actual fascists in parliament reciting “Mein Kampf” in geordie accents?

@ Tom_W1987 – Hmmmm right suppose I did ask 🙄

Why is there such a rush to do this Brexit thing?

Everything suddenly changes in a few weeks, leave the EU and a new prime minister. Just like that!

Why is the perfectly reasonable idea of even reconsidering the decision in parliment rejected with shouts of “it is the the will of the people” etc..even though the country is pretty obviously evenly divided.

Why is a petition signed by millions is rejected and/or only passed for consideration in a manner that means it is pointless and powerless anyway?

Since when have referendums been a thing?
And why can’t we have another one if they are so good?

Should we be asking ourselves who will profit from this?

Seems like a monumental joke is being played on the whole county.

It does if they are 18 or over and can be bothered to register to vote and saunter down to their local polling station.

You’re confusing democracy with universal suffrage.

You’re confusing democracy with universal suffrage.

😀

iffoverload – Member
Why is there such a rush to do this Brexit thing?

Everything suddenly changes in a few weeks, leave the EU and a new prime minister. Just like that!

Why is the perfectly reasonable idea of even reconsidering the decision in parliment rejected with shouts of “it is the the will of the people” etc..even though the country is pretty obviously evenly divided.

Why is a petition signed by millions is rejected and/or only passed for consideration in a manner that means it is pointless and powerless anyway?

Since when have referendums been a thing?
And why can’t we have another one if they are so good?

Should we be asking ourselves who will profit from this?

Seems like a monumental joke is being played on the whole county.cause it’s been a stitch up from the very beginning?

No, don’t blame the stupidity of the unwashed masses on some evil etonian conspiracy and collusion between leave and remain – to actually secretly **** you.

Because that will lead to more Farrages, Galloways, *cough* Corbyns 😆 *cough^ to come out of the woodwork.

David Cameron was simply stupid and patriotic enough to believe that his countrymen had a higher IQ than they did in reality. It’s the lack of trust in authority and the continual rabid suspicion of conspiracy and corruption in all institutions that got us here in the first place.

Holding the ref during a major sporting event, that sees nationalist fervour flying high wasn’t planned? Straight out of alex salmonds playbook that yin.

yes I know slightly different, but england were always going to get pumped out in the 2nd round, so advantage needed to be taken before then! 😆

No, just short sighted on Camerons part – his cabinet and advisers probably only follow “ruggers”.

You’ll honestly never convince me otherwise. No euros, no brexit!

David Cameron was simply stupid and patriotic enough to believe that his countrymen had a higher IQ than they did in reality.

fair comment, but why the rush to crash on ahead at full speed without further consideration? especially considering the long term and unpredictable consequences of the decision.

that is just plain stupid.

It is like one of those salesmen that make you sign to take advantage of the “exclusive time limited special offer” before you change your mind, even though it is non of those things..(and even with those you get a cooling off period)

I vote we do this on the other thread. Who’s with me?

I might have been, but simply saying that we’ll ‘do it’ on the other thread didn’t give me any indications what you were going to do or how. I can’t make an informed decision on that basis.

David Cameron was simply stupid and patriotic enough to believe that his countrymen had a higher IQ than they did in reality.

It is quite incredibly to think that his arrogance has cost the UK it’s European membership. A ‘slam dunk’ vote supposed to unite the Tory Party has probably set our economy back years, from which it may never recover and cost him his job. He’ll always be known as the PM who accidentally lost Europe and broke up the Union (probably).

Can comebody explain the democracy in this situation to me please:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MlT8fHOy8Y[/video]

Especially when the Royal veto comes into play…

The Queen also vetoed entirely a private member’s Bill, the Military Actions Against Iraq (Parliamentary Approval) Bill 1999, that would have transfered the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq from the monarch to Parliament

It is widely assumed that the royal prerogative, the authority to declare war, rests now with the prime minister rather than the Queen herself.

However, these documents raise questions about how much power the monarch still has over the elected government of the day.

From the first page: “300,000 conservative party members” More like half that.

Very interesting reading on Ochlocracy, Tom, cheers for that. Especially the examples at the end. Demands for sacrifice to appease an angry crowd. Pretty much exactly what’s happened here.

And if anyone’s not seen this before, it’s a very good summary of why this referendum was set up and framed so poorly:

https://medium.com/@kirstymhall/brexit-was-a-con-67532113a7c

To start with our FPTP GE system isn’t really representative democracy. It is almost the opposite as the majority of people never get what they ask for.

When they do, you’ll more than likely end up like Italy, who’ve had 62 governments in 67 years.